The Doc's Answers 8
I am married to Dr Jekyll /Mr. Hyde. We've been together 7yrs. I left him two years ago when he was acting suicidal & psychopathic; threatening to hurt me in his outwardly actions (cutting up my personal property, threatening, frothing at the mouth when angry, talking in 3rd person which he said he did for effect, clawing walls at 3-5am, etc). Ouchhh! However, after 10 mths apart and both of us having personal counseling I really thought we both changed and learned a lot. He seemed to have confronted himself and really was trying. I don't doubt that you both did change and that you both did learn a lot! (plus I couldn't live with the guilt that I left him. Now, that's a yukky reason to hang around...)
We've been back together for a year (living together for past 5 mths) and the signs are here again. I feel so confused because now I'm not sure what is abusive or not. I recently discovered that whenever I ask him a question he repeatedly ignores me. Unless he's hard of hearing, this is disrespectful. Abuse is about disrespect. I ask it over and over gradually getting louder thinking he hasn't heard. Finally he replies and states 'I already answered, you are such a nag'. Did he really answer or did he mutter a reply? Would you call someone who couldn't hear that you answered a nag or some equivalent? Also, he is always rushing me, if I am in the way he pushes me from behind to move me or to speed up my walking. Very disrespectful, even if you're really slow. Would you push him or a close friend to speed them up? He plays it off like its funny or that he hasn't done it. Did you think it was funny? Do you make fun of him or other people you are close to? Abusive or not? Well, what do you think?
He says that all our problems are my fault, that I'm the most miserable, horrible person he's ever met! Hmmm, I'd ask him what he's doing with you if that's how he feel. He calls me names, like 'liar' or 'b**ch' when I say my own opinion or we are disagreeing. Do you call people you disagree with liars? Or b**ches? If I stand up for myself, he punishes by ignoring me for days, shutting himself in his den. Do you shut out those who stand up to you for days? When I try to talk to him he just snaps saying I'll never change. Don't you think being snapped at is disrespectful?
I guess my question is mainly how do I actually accept the two parts of my husband so I can divorce him? I know I need to divorce him for I can't keep living like this & I am scared at times. How do I let go inside my heart the nice guy I fell in love with for that is what keeps me here and coming back? How do I know if it is abuse for there are some of the things listed on your side that I have even done at times in the past to him? Of course you're guilty of misbehaviors. Who isn't? One of the reasons I ask (understandably) angry victims to clean up their own act is so they can more clearly see what's going on. Victim types with guilt issues in particular have a hard time seeing clearly because they feel soooo badly over their own transgressions. (Of course, the main reason to clean up your own act is to increase your self respect. Also, as self-respect increases, tolerance for disrespect decreases!)
I think what you're really asking is, "How do I keep my wishful thinking (that things are/will be OK) from interfering with my overall happiness and well being?" Now you're talking about abandoning denial and accepting reality - so you can make whatever choices you need to increase the probability of living a calm, contented life.
There's lots on site in the Victim Section and among the Advice Emails on this. Also, two book suggestions:
When Love Goes Wrong: What To Do When You can't do anything Right by Susan Schlecter and Ann Jones.
The Secret of Overcoming Verbal Abuse: Getting Off the Emotional Roller Coaster and Regaining Control of Your Life by Albert Ellis et al .
Good luck! Doc
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Wednesday July 24, 2002
Dear doc,
I’m 23 and I have been dating my boyfriend
for about 9 months now. When we first met, I just ended an abusive
relationship of 4 years with my ex-fiancée. At that time I did not even
see he was abusive; the reason I left was that he cheated with a girl
form his work and would not break this affair with her even after I
confronted him! Yuk! About 4 weeks later I
met T and we were madly in love. Everything seemed so perfect. He
treated me much better than my ex did in the beginning but some things
bothered me. He practically moved in with me after a month (he said he
could not sleep anymore without me! Giving you responsibility for his wellbeing makes you feel
real important at first - but that's one responsibility you simply cannot
handle...) and after a few weeks the trouble started. Our sex life was very good, but whenever I said
"no" (did not even happen much!) he would sulk, pout , sigh, and even yell at me!
Yuk! How you feel doesn't matter... I told him he could not treat me this way; he acted like I wanted to hurt him while in fact I was just too tired.
Always about him, huh? And I told him that!
Good for you! Afterwards
he said he was sorry but next time I did not feel like having sex the
same argument started all over again. Every time. Yep. The Mememe syndrome comes with a short memory. He
got very mad once when I came home late from work (and just wanted to
sleep) because he needed attention. He then would continue to argue and
if I told him that I wanted to sleep, he would sit up straight in bed
and “wait” for me to kiss him and make him feel better. See why one should never accept responsibility for
another's wellbeing? For
hours. We had a lot of utterly pointless arguments, always started
small (mostly I didn’t even know exactly why, he was very subtly
provoking me I know now) and he would then twist and turn every word I
say, become loud, accuse me of treating him badly, of not caring
enough. Yep. Then if I told him I
did not agree he would silent treat me (he knows I hate this) and then
when I finally DID get mad at him and shouted (now I know I shouldn't
have) he would say “see, you’re always shouting”. Arrgghh! Arrrgghh is right! Damned if you do, damned if you don't!
We went on vacation together and it only got worse. It was a group travel to Egypt.
How cool! My
goal for the trip was to learn as much as I can from the people there
about this wonderful country. He knew this beforehand because I
talked to him about it. He said this was OK for him.
But instead he shouted at me whenever I had talked to someone from the
group and he was not there to hear it. NO boundaries! He wants to be merged with you so you'll
always take care of and attend to him... He insisted we hold hands ALL THE TIME. (for 12 days!
Giggle!)
This might seem small but he acted extremely hurt and angry if I
didn’t. He sulked over breakfast once for hours because I didn’t get
him a drink, because he did that for me the day before and it was “a
sign of love”. Arrgghh! He acted jealous whenever I gave anyone attention besides him.
Can you imagine life with this man if you guys had a baby? Eventually
I got fed up and asked him what was bothering him so much. I asked him
to try and trust me a little more because behaving so possessive would
ruin our vacation (let alone our relationship!) But then he got furious
and accused me of accusing him to be possessive! How dare you (speak the truth)! This
discussion ended in a huge argument in the hotel garden. I got so upset
I started to cry and his reaction shocked me: He looked at me in
disgust and said “Yeah go ahead, cry! Everyone can see us!!! Are you
trying to make me look bad?” Mememe... And he stomped into the hotel.
When we returned home I was exhausted. Strangely enough he was feeling super.
Sure. Your tears were "proof" that you cared. I
told him honestly that I was having doubts about this relationship, he
begged for another chance. He said he knew he behaved badly and he
swore that it would never happen again. I believed him. After 3
wonderful weeks it started all over again. And again.
Yes. Right now it is one week after I told him I wanted out.
He begged me again for another chance. He swore things would REALLY change this time.
And now I found this wonderful website. Talk about an eye-opener!
I
printed out a lot of pages and showed them to T. He said after staring
blank for 5 minutes.. this is not possible! Then he started to cry.
Lately we talk a lot about his feelings (which he finds extremely
difficult!) and this was not possible before. He has a very low self
esteem. (but so do I) I have the feeling we are still in trouble,
although I know he cannot be happy like this. You are both in trubble, and no, he is not happy like
this. I keep holding on I guess because deep down I am still trying to “fix” his problems and hurts.
You can't. Only he can fix his stuff. It hurts me a lot that he does not see me for the person I am. He thinks less of me than I really am, just as he does
about himself.
I don’t know what to do. Would it be cruel of me to leave him now that he finally knows what's going on with him? He's just scratched the surface and has lots of work to do. Your job is not to help fix him. Your job is to help yourSelf and do everything in your power to maximize the probability of a happy and healthy life. Plus, I'd say you've already given him a very valuable gift: this new knowledge. I don’t know if I want to stay anymore! Who can blame you? Nobody wants to be hurt time and time again; nobody wants to feel misunderstood. No matter how much he thinks he gets it now, he doesn't; not yet. Stay and you will be hurt again. And again. You owe nobody but yourSelf.
T has the same responsibility you have: to the Self. He's got to learn to care for T rather than expect another to help him feel OK. He's got to learn to deal with his insecurities rather than look for evidence of being loved. He's got to learn that his feelings are not the center of the Universe and that how others feel is as important as how he feels. He'd accomplish this work more efficiently in therapy.
As for you, you're getting better and better at spotting your stuff. Good for you! Sounds like you have an intact "early warning system" that you need to trust more. Also, ask yourself how it is that you got into two of these painful relationships?
What you both have going for you is your young age. It's much easier to modify this stuff before you hit around 30 than after.
Good luck to both of you! Doc
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Friday July 26, 2002
Dear Doc,
I’m a 44-y/o professional woman who is three years into a verbally abusive marriage. I found your site - God Bless You! - read the books, and am dealing with my own issues of co-dependency, seeing a counselor, and attending Al-Anon. Excellent!
My husband and I saw a religious counselor for the past 2 1/2 years, but the counselor refused to recognize verbal abuse as such (y’all are a bunch of psycho-babble, and the Bible tells him all he needs to know) although he did chide my husband for his actions and worked with him on anger management. Cool. Doesn't matter that he didn't recognize the pop psycho-babble, neither does the Diagnostic and Statistic Manual we use for diagnoses. He counselor recognized hubby's temper!
I consider the whole time a failure because as soon as circumstances prevented us from seeing the counselor, my husband’s behavior would rapidly deteriorate. Not unusual unless you've "gotten it" and absolutely, positively refuse to put up with any antics. The difference was that I could now see this as deliberate behavior, not as rage stuff, and my sense of outrage developed. By "deliberate behavior," I assume you mean manipulative behavior? If not, email me and explain what you do mean. It wasn’t until February this year that I read Ms Evans’ The Verbally Abusive Relationship, and put the brakes on. Oh, that will do it! Giggle! On May 1st, he threatened me (our future) with divorce for the last time; I took financial and moral steps to split us up. We are not divorced, however; we are temporarily split by circumstances. I guess he got the message. :)
He has since turned back to sweet & loving, and herein lies my questions: How do you know it’s real? You don't. What tells you that this is not more of his oh-so-charming lies & insincere apologies? Time. That he won’t turn ugly again as soon as he feels secure of me? He probably will. His job is to catch himself ASAP and correct it. He is now reading The Verbally Abusive Relationship and says he recognizes a lot of himself and looks forward to discussing it with me when we get together in a month. Good! He also emailed me "I have been verbally abusive to you." . . . But has never said "I am an abuser, or I have a problem." Is this too fine a line, or is he playing with words? I think he said it fine.
I don’t want to spend the rest of my life policing his childish temper tantrums, detaching from his behaviors, protecting myself. It just isn’t how I visualize the rest of my life. I guess I’m desperately wanting someone to tell me this isn’t a pipe dream, that he is showing all the signs of change and desiring to change, and that we have a chance. He is. You do. And he is while reading a killer book! Many individuals who get on the bandwagon actually like it. They stay on, though they periodically stumble and fall as they travel along the road of Self-improvement. With perseverance, books, (and therapy), he can make significant changes. But you need to remain alert because from time to time you will need to remind him when he's stepping on your toes or otherwise reverting. This means being prepared to leave if he doesn't self correct. Isn't this courageous attitude exactly what worked when you called him on his divorce threat? Make an agreement with him that you will open your mouth when and if he is out of line. He's doing lots of work, but so must you: in the same way he needs to learn to care for himself /deal with his frustrations /insecurities, you need to establish tighter self-protective boundaries. Each of you has to over-learn your respective new skills to the point where they feel "normal" and integrate with the rest of your personality. Get back in counseling together as well as alone.
When we return home in a year, we are to
build a new, expensive house together. I’m afraid that will signal
security, and therefore a return to the controlling behavior. Of course you are afraid; who in your shoes wouldn't be?
You can't control what he does, but you can fix your stuff even more than you
already have. The more Self-caring you are, the less likely he'll act up - since
you help keep him in check. A good book for you is Albert Ellis'
The Secret of Overcoming Verbal Abuse: Getting Off the
Emotional Roller Coaster and Regaining Control of Your Life.
Memorize it! Look at
it this way: He cannot - repeat - he cannot control you if you don't permit
it. Good luck to both of you! Doc
Monday August 05, 2002
Hi Dr. Irene, Hi N,
I am too argumentative and always have to get the last word in. Some people have described me as "always right", even of course, if I'm not. I tend to debate things to the bitter end, even if the other party isn't really interested in it. The reason I am asking you about this is, some of this meshes up with of the emotional abuse symptoms I went through as a child.
At any rate, I really don't know why I feel a need to do this, other than it's abnormal and I'm having problems controlling my behavior. Worse still, I am put in positions of responsibility where I have to discuss issues. Some people value my input but I know I could be a lot more constructive. Others tell me "I just speak my mind". Clearly, you do "speak your mind." The problem is that you are out of control of your mouth (behavior)!
I've been told people are "pained" to hear mention of my name when I'm not around. I don't personally attack people, or get visibly angry (although some things do incense me and make me become angry, I don't ever yell). Over-defensive perhaps, I'm not really sure.
Anyway, I'd really like to be able to interact with others better. I've tried watching my behavior closely but I just get drawn back into the same things again and again. I pretty much know what I seem to be doing wrong, but I don't have the foggiest idea of the root causes or how to change my behavior long-term in a positive fashion. You don't need to know the root causes of your problem to change it! If you do know, it's nice and it gives you good stuff to relate to. But then you still have to learn how to stop the behavior! On root causes: perhaps somebody always knew what was "best" for you (tried to control you). Perhaps you tried to talk, but were never heard. Whatever... Suffice it to say that abuse in childhood spawns abusive behavior (and victimization!) in adulthood.
You say you are having problems controlling your behavior. Believe it or not, one of the easiest things to do is to block a behavior! It's not easy for you now; you don't have the skills! But you can develop the skills to inhibit this "need" to be right. This is a component of anger management, by the way, and you may want to take a look at some of the anger titles in The Bookshelf or in your local bookstore. Keep in mind that your behavior is often experienced by others as controlling because your motive appears to be to have them see things your way. (The worst part of this is that you don't learn new stuff since you're not listening.)
Become increasingly mindful. It's great that you have an idea of what you are doing "wrong." Watch how you let yourself be drawn in. And find a way to get out - ahead of time! Carry a little arsenal of "ways out" with you on a file card kept in your pocket. For example: End the conversation. You may say, "Hmmm, let me think about what you're saying." Or, "I'm running late. Can we continue later?" Or, how about letting the other person explain their position fully while you bit your tongue? Imagine yourself with tape around your mouth if you must! (And later, think about it!) Figure out ahead of time ways to get yourself out of being drawn in. Don't worry about messing up; you will! But don't beat yourself up over messing up; know it takes lots of practice to change old habits. Try, try again, and eventually you'll be able to hold your tongue. Good luck to you! Doc
Thanks for any help, and I apologize in advance for the somewhat atypical nature of my problem.