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Doc@DrIrene.com

Doc Won't Put Up With Abuse!

Doc Won't Put Up With Abuse: How To Get Kicked Off The Site...

by Dr, Irene

"You can bring a horse to water. But you can't make him drink." -Anon 

April 11, 2001

Those of you who have been following the site for a while will remember wpb, also known as Wayne.

Wayne was posting to the Catbox as "HeartBroken" and to the Boards last winter. His (now defunct) Ye Old Yak Board involvement in particular created lots of ruckus and nearly destroyed the safe and pertinent space the board provided it's posters. My mailbox was stuffed with complaints. Wayne, and his estranged wife Melissa, were eventually both banned from site boards.  Why ban Melissa? Because her unchecked and misguided empathy for Wayne caused her to fully participate in the disruption. We won't even discuss what it's done to her!

I've posted the correspondence regarding this issue for two reasons: To illustrate Wayne's attempts to intimidate me / manipulate me, and to  model a way of handling his engagement attempts.  Note the constant double and triple messages: self-righteous indignation, attempts at intimidation, and pleas to "understand" him are almost simultaneous. He giveth and taketh away in one fell swoop. This tactic creates a confusing emotional climate for his victim. Wake up Mel!

Wayne is a very disturbed individual who wants others to take responsibility for his actions so he can continue to get away with mis-behavior. We are repeatedly asked to understand his point of view. What about his understanding ours?  When I gave him mine in Catbox, he ignored it. When I emailed him some feedback (included below), again, he threw it back at me. Very sad situation and I do feel badly for him - and Mel. But not as badly as I feel for those he has hurt and continues to hurt - in the name of understanding his perspective, fairness, and personal growth. And I'm angry with his repeated attempts to manipulate, guilt, or intimidate me. Hogwash!

These emails began around the time I got involved to check out a second round of complaints.

2/2

Dr. Irene:  (From Wayne - an appeal; blaming others for hurting him.) 

Have you truly read all the posts.

I have been very patient with the degree of abuse and paranoia on this board. 

I have been diagnosed, evaluated, and picked apart for most things I have said.  Most of which is nothing but sincerity and honesty. 

Before commenting on my affect, try looking towards the full extent of the discourse taking place. 

love to all, wpb

ps.  I am saddened by the lack of constructive input on this board.

2/2

Hi Wayne, (From Doc to Wayne)

Not all, but enough. I know your intentions are good, but they are complaining because, I think, you can be very rude at times - fine other times. 

Please take my feedback and use it. It is for your own betterment. Spend a little time thinking about how you are coming across. Learning these written and verbal skills will benefit you greatly in life.

Best regards,  Dr. Irene 

2/2  (From Wayne – He asks for input, gets it, refutes it. He wants however to continue our dialogue so I can "understand" him. Unfortunately, he becomes subtly threatening and tries to intimidate me. Big mistake. Doc is done  talking to him. There will be no "second chance"  because it is clear to me that this individual has no interest in recovery at this time. )


Thanks for your input.

As for being rude, that is a matter of perspective.  I have been far more polite, then many who know of the situation think some deserve.

I have always felt compassion and empathy for the posters present. 

I would be interested on your positions re PD's including particularly BPD, and PTSD.  (Is illness your excuse to insist you be allowed to act out Wayne? It won't wash.)

Are you familiar with EMDR. 

What is your PhD in?

If you don't mind.

By the way remember that we are participating in a global village; with many varied perceptions.  What is acceptable and normal to some is offensive to others.

Western Hemisphere chat rooms are offended by ALS PLS? statements, whereas they are the norm elsewhere. 

I think that as much for me as for others, this is an excellent opportunity for growth.  Bridge the Gap.

Remember ... countertransference....  (For the unfamiliar, “countertransference” is the term used to refer to the therapist’s unresolved stuff that gets in the way of treating the client.)

Love to all, wpb 

2/2  (From Wayne - )

ps Dr. Irene

When with a marriage counselor previously, I was informed that I was being too analytical, and promoting feelings of walking on eggshells, by suggesting that my partner reflect on how she might be coming across.

I feel like if I say the sky is blue, people are going to find fault with that statement.

Embarrassed by the commercialization of a person's psyche.

love to all, wpb

2/2  (From a poster - an example of the complaints I was receiving.)

I have to be honest and tell you that I believe that this Wayne situation is ruining the board. I agree with you that there are always going to be people like him who will show up from time to time, and I think there are many who have attempted to ignore his obviously sick and desperate antics.

Still the man is dominating every discussion, and harassing the other posters. I received an E-Mail from him, and I know others have as well. I just blocked his address, and suggested this to others. Personally I have begun to question just how healthy it is to be forced to ignore and endure endlessly with this man. It has begun to seem like another form of abuse to me, and I am nowhere near as vulnerable as some of the women who post on the board. On the moderated boards that I post on he would be banned or at the very least warned to stop what he is doing or be banned. Part of this is not only because he would be harassing others, but also because the webmaster did not want people or the advertisers that they pay money for to be run off the site because of one very sick person.

I am convinced that a moderated board would curb a lot of these not very frequent situations like the Wayne one, and I do believe that many of the regular posters would be in favor of one if they had a better understanding of what a moderated board really is. Some seem to have the mistaken impression it is about censorship. The Dr. Irene site and the discussion board are excellent overall, and it would be very sad to see something like this be allowed to ruin it.

2/5 (From Mel, Wayne’s estranged wife, writing from a shelter. Mel is victim rage personified. But she can't help her big heart from giving him her support and benefit of the doubt. Time after time, despite how his actions have affected her life, she excuses his stuff.)

Dear Dr. Irene,

I don't know how you made your decision to try having a moderated board, but the vote was by far in favour of leaving it alone. Most people were not offended by some of the so-called offensive posts. Personally, the thing I found most offensive was the behavior of those calling for moderation who were making big deals out of someone signing off "love to all". I have seen many sign off that way and nothing was said. There was a lot of prejudging going on with replies being made not to what was actually said but to the person who was a victim of verbal abuse the moment he appeared on the board. Many posters would likely agree that the ones calling for moderation were the ones initiating the abuse on the board, understandably because they were triggered by the appearance of an abuser who was supposed to be welcome on the site.

Also, this moderating changes everything that I valued about the board. I used to recommend it because if someone was hurting or suffering they could post a message and receive support almost instantly since it was such an active board. Now there is a few hours before ones call for help appears and several more hours before replies can be read. Not much of a supportive place anymore. Very sad. :(

Even Wayne posted supportive replies to people and was bashed by others as being insincere. Only victims are welcome here now, those who were asking for moderation were the ones being judgmental and disruptive by the presence of an admitted abuser who wants to change.  A quote from your message board page: "Where Abuser People & Victim People Can Yak & Learn About Each Other..." I think maybe that should be changed now. I know you probably didn't read all of what happened over on the yak board, I know you are busy, but perhaps a poll would be a good idea to show you that most people were not scared off by Wayne’s presence nor do they want moderation.

Thanks for your consideration of these matters.

Have a good day. Melissa

2/9 (From Wayne – attempts to persuade and to guilt as Wayne finds his posts banned.)

Can you advise as to the reasons behind censorship ?

2/19  (From Wayne - tries to put Doc on the defensive/ guilt her.)

I will try again.

I am requesting an explanation as to why I was censored from the board.

Additionally I would ask for some reasoning as to why you felt I was rude, etc. (Amazing. He is asking me to defend my actions when he was the offender. Sound familiar?)

I have tried to come to terms with my behaviour, I have really hurt some people.  I have traumatized them.  (Do you think admission of your mis-behavior constitutes an excuse for continued abuse?)

There could be so many positive outcomes to the growth experience that could be gained.  (I am depriving him and others of the opportunity to grow. Giggle!)

I would like to mention also that nor Melissa or I agree with what is happening.  Personally I feel terrible.  I wish some of the posters, could see that their behaviour is questionable, and that I mean absolutely no harm.  My posting here is not to win back or otherwise communicate with Melissa.

We are enjoying communication at all levels.  We are trying.  We are learning.  I have a lot to make amends for, regardless of the outcome.

Please Doc, know that I would love to work with this, despite the abuse I have received at this site of yours. ( !!! )

If you would even prefer to discuss this personally I would not hesitate in offering you the following: (Deleted) 

I have other methods as well if some other comm. channel would be more suitable.

If you could only just see clearly both sides (no offense intended) I truly believe you would understand WHY.

Why I want to continue posting.

Why Melissa still cares.

Why I behaved so awfully.

PS.  WOULD I ALSO BE MANIPULATING MYSELF?  (There was some speculation at this time whether he and Mel were one person.)

And, why we all deserve a chance to offer what good we have, ever it be so little. 

LOVE TO ALL,  

2/19  (From Wayne – veiled intimidation attempts during a time when there was talk about hacking of the Board.)

Madam:  (Madame?)

May I ask how you are managing to implement security on your current OS platform. 

You may be having some undetectable access to your servers.  Whether you are resident or using host service, the UNIX, derivative, or MS OS may not be set up correctly with respect to firewall, etc. 

Additionally are you employing a RAID level as part of an overall data management program? 

I hope that the concepts of IP sniffing, interrogation, and port control are being considered by your IT staff, to include as well your moderator. 

Thank you

love to all, wpb 

2/20 (From Wayne – appeals and attempts at persuasion.)

I am posting to a board of Dr. Irene's

I left a post last night, which is evident in my user profile, but has since disappeared from the general forum view.

Could you please explain, and encourage democracy.

Thank you. 

Wayne   

BTW I have not been in violation of any of the following:

You agree to the following terms and conditions:

1. You are prohibited from posting, publishing, distributing, uploading, downloading, disseminating, transmitting or linking to other Web sites that contain material which

  1. You are prohibited from posting, publishing, distributing, uploading, downloading, disseminating, transmitting or linking to other Web sites that contain material which
  1. Is unlawful, defamatory, fraudulent, libelous, threatening, abusive, disruptive, sexually explicit, bigoted, harassing or obscene material; (…blah, blah, blah. Quotes the entire board violation policy.)

2/20 (From Wayne – mocking; more pleas/appeals; more intimidation attempts.)

Now I am being censored from the new board,  

Missing threads, as they would say.

And You suddenly after my email, alert the public to being hacked, I am confident there is no coincidence.

If my suspicions are correct... well, I might be appalled.

But the benefit of doubt is desirable.

Please Try to communicate what is going on.

The moderator said you would.

Is this an incorrect statement?

I believe, that the information contained on my hard drive which reflects the entirety of the debacle since I first posted to your cat board, up to and including this email would be a fascinating research item for the APA, and a host of American, and International Ethics committees.  Professional Associations are starting to examine the liability issues surrounding the dissemination of services via this new medium of communication.

What a terrific landmark our current situation can provide for developing new legislative, and policy directives, governing the participants.  Consumers are powerful lobbyists, and plaintiffs.

love to all, wpb 

2/22 (From an indignant Wayne – who now prays for Doc and pleas - while still making accusations.)

I apologize Dr. Irene it was never my intention to be disruptive.

But if you do kick people from your practice for my supposed behaviour, I am appalled.

I have the experience to draw intelligent and informed comparisons.

I have never seen a situation as has unfolded where the consumers and practitioner alike didn't reign in their behaviour.

I haven't done anything wrong.

I will continue to monitor, and post as I desire.  If you feel that you effectively can culture a specific environment of hostility for your financial or other gain, I am sorry for all of us.

You are not only breaking amendments of your constitution, betraying trust, and medical ethics, but you are blatantly slandering and bashing people openly while denouncing any opportunity for rebuttal.  (Giggle! Amazing!)

I PRAY FOR YOU 

I WISH AS MELISSA TO CONTINUE POSTING TO TAKE PART IN HELPING EACH OTHER AND EVERYONE IN OUR WORLD COMMUNITY 

HOW WOULD YOU FEEL IN A REVERSE POSITION

HAVE YOU EVER REALLY SUFFERED

ARE YOU TALKING FROM EXPERIENCE?

PLEASE DR.  IRENE

TURN THIS AROUND; WHAT DO I HAVE TO GAIN.

I WOULD LOVE FOR ALL OF US TO HUG AND DECLARE PEACE.

HOW CAN YOU FIND FAULT IN THAT

PLEASE PLEASE

IF YOU CAN SEE ME DIFFERENTLY

PLEASE TELL ME

YOU HAVE YET TO RESPOND

DESPITE THE FACT THAT THE MODERATOR SAID YOU WOULD  

WHAT IS THE PROBLEM

IS GORDON, MARYA, MELISSA, ETC. ALL WRONG.  IS GORDON A FOOL, A GENDER BIASED CHAUVINIST.  COME ON WAKE UP STOP THIS CHILDISH BEHAVIOUR ITS PATHETIC AND BORDERS CRIMINAL (Wow!)

LOVE AND PEACE

TYBERIAN       

2/23 (From Mel, Wayne’s estranged wife, whose misplaced empathy for her husband gets in her way. I get totally blasted by her on a board while wpb gets excused. Giggle!)

Dear Dr. Irene,

I just want to let you know that in my experience with many therapists as a couple, individually and in-group support, there are others who share my view. I don't mind if people don't accept my view, I respect other opinions, but I do believe in myself and have found a different approach works wonders. One of the biggest hurdles I have had to overcome in my lifetime is your concept, "Do not take the things your partner says personally. They are not about you. They are about your partner's attempt to engage you." I grew up with a critical father who was always putting me down and saying things that hurt my feelings. When I found myself with an angry man who had also been victimized by many different people in his life, an opportunity arose to see myself in a mirror. He would overreact to things I would say (and I'm not saying overreact to belittle his feelings, I'm referring to sudden attacks because he perceived he was being attacked). This brought back all kinds of feelings from my childhood where I felt helpless to defend my character, and as a result I made an unconscious decision to not take that sh*t anymore. I became very angry and hurt and put myself on hyper alert for any indication of putdowns or disapproval. Now suddenly I found myself overreacting to perceived attacks, not from everyone, but with respect to my partner whom I loved and cared for so much. I couldn't cope with the idea that he thought so little of me and at times would jump to defend myself when it wasn't necessary. Now, I'm not denying that it was his abuse that triggered this sensitivity (along with childhood frustrations), but my point is that suddenly I'm doing the same thing he was doing to me. Now he was triggered by my disapproval of his innocent words and again the situation would escalate, this time with me being the one who overreacted. So now I look at this concept, ""Do not take the things your partner says personally. They are not about you. They are about your partner's attempt to engage you." and I see a new lesson. Do not take the things your partner says personally. They are not about you. They are not about your partner trying to engage you, they are about 2 people who are both hurting overreacting to one another because they just want so badly to be loved and understood. I believe in MOST cases no one is trying to engage their partner in a power struggle. It is not necessarily about power and control. (Although there are definitely controlling people who do want their partners to be submissive to them) But like myself I have seen others in troubled relationships where it has nothing to do with control. It has everything to do with triggered misperceptions which definitely escalates to something dangerous when one or the other starts reading or counseling and uses the latest lingo to throw back in the others face. Labeling our partners as codependents or controllers, etc. is not something we should be doing when obviously we have our own problems and could be making a mountain out of a molehill thereby being the cause of the escalation ourselves. This is what I saw happening on the board after Wayne's appearance. He has always been sensitive to the feelings of others and never in denial about his abusive behavior. Yes, he has problems, but his behavior on this board was not out of line. Perhaps he should have ignored all of the attacks on him that were unjustified, but at least he responded with dignity and understanding. He tried (perhaps too desperately) to defend himself from everyone’s triggered responses. Had he appeared before me on this site I'm sure he would have been welcomed with open arms as another "victim". I did overreact to one of his posts where he was describing a few particular incidents that had occurred in our relationship, and I think now I should have kept my defense to myself, because had everyone not heard my side or even known how abusive he was, he would have received sympathy and understanding and the advice typical of the message boards "She is abusive, she is controlling, you need to get away from her" How dangerous is that???? How many other posters are posting about their own misperceptions about an incident and receiving this terrible biased advice, which creates division instead of reunion. My goal is to break the cycle, and I would have supported anyone who has been slammed like Wayne was. There are others who post who are understandably contributing to their relationship issues because of their own baggage, but very few people ever talk about their own responsibility for uncalled for heightened emotional responses. Instead they are allowing themselves to believe that they just need to work on disengaging when in fact they are the ones who have engaged in the first place because of a triggered response to innocent words or actions.

There are many on the board who agree with me, many who feel the same way about what happened. I don't understand why you have allowed what happened to happen. I can speculate, but I don't want to judge. Anyway, just thought I'd share with you the same message I've been trying to share with others. Some don't agree and that's ok with me because we could all be wrong. As for Wayne hacking into the boards or anyone’s system, that is a heightened emotional response based on fear or paranoia. He is very intelligent and knowledgeable about computers, but he is not a programmer and not into such things. He sent me copies of his emails to you and I know he was just trying to suggest security issues because of the disappearing posts and such.  He really was trying to help people here, while helping himself at the same time. Oh well, time to focus on my own growth and forget about the ones stuck in the righteous anger stage. It worked for me while I was there, but I outgrew that and have no choice but to move ahead now ;) It's just a shame that this is being perpetuated and encouraged on this board. Some have been there longer than I was and I hope that they make friends elsewhere who can help them see what I see now so they can get out of their "pity pots" and find happiness someday. Validation is one thing, perpetuating abusive behavior is another. Good luck to you and your followers.

Mel

Well gang, now you have it. Wayne and Mel are both banned from  site boards. They don't want to / are unable to help themselves right now - and I will not waste precious energy fighting their battle.   I have disengaged. 

Dr.  Irene

Ps: Trubble sends many, many thanks to KittyKat, whose help was and continues to be invaluable.

 I just want to read the posts.