Material posted here is intended for educational purposes only, and must not be considered a substitute for informed advice from your own health care provider.

Courtesy of Dr. Irene Matiatos Copyright© 2000. The material on this website may be distributed freely for non-commercial or educational purposes provided that author credit is given. For commercial distribution, please contact the author at Doc@drirene.com

More Covert Abuse page 1

Date: Thursday, January 25, 2001

Examples of Covert Abuse: My first wife is what I called a "Passive Abuser", that is what she became after I set the limits.

Example: Would agree with me about herself or how to deal with the kids and then act opposite.

2: Would turn the kids against me by explaining my every step as something "male" as if it were bad or my expressed frustrations for what she constantly failed to do as "Mad", thereby making me look unfair and selfish.

3:Constantly failed to do what we had talked about and agreed on. Reasons "Didn't have time, forgot, was interrupted, was trying to do something else 'I' had asked for".

4: Would dress up to go to town but would let herself totally go around me.

Date: Friday, January 26, 2001

I just ended an 18 month abusive relationship with my bf. I am 45 and he is 52. He was wonderful for the first 3 months, then it slowly began. First it was overt; he would just get sarcastic and snappish for no reason, and it would escalate to almost daily. I would ask him "why" and he would respond with "I don't do "why" questions." His behavior became wierder and wierder. Bizarre and irrational. We'd break up several times over. Once, I found rubbers in his overnight bag at my house which it seemed like he wanted me to find, and he got crazy and stated that it was none of my business as to why he had those rubbers. We broke up because he accused me of stealing an extra set of his house keys. Over the months, I slowly became more and more angry at him, however, I wanted to "keep peace" and "make nice", of course, everything I did was manipulative in his eyes. Finally, in July, I found his personal ad that he ran in a local newspaper looking for new women. That did it for me, however, I started missing him in a month's time, and we got back together. A week before Christmas, he broke up with me claiming that he's never done 2 holidays in a row with the same woman. The truth more came out that I was becoming "hypercritical" of his behavior and "hyper vigilant" about his "affairs." He'd lie to my face about where he was going, wouldn't let me complete my sentences, "taunt" me by trying to keep me off guard by saying very hurtful and demeaning stuff about my appearance, the relationship that he didn't want in the first place, throwing in my face the past hurts that he caused me but twisting it around like he was blaming me. All he ever talked about was the relationship in how he felt "blamed." And that people liked his "toxic mouth." How come I couldn't roll with his sarcasm and hurtful mouth? Something was wrong with me, he'd always say. He always told me to shut up even when I wasn't talking. It got very, very wierd. Well, we had a huge fight on Jan. 14 and we have not spoke since. I have no intention in trying to patch things up. I am so fed with his mind games, his trying to make me jealous, his insecurities which he projects to me, his wierd faces and voice that comes out when he is trying to "taunt me". I've never met anyone as wierd, bizarre, and cruel.

B1: Submit
Date: Monday, January 29, 2001

keeps saying we should work on the relationship after specifically told i have no desire to and am seeking a divorce

using guilt to keep me in the relationship

lurking around me while i am busy doing things to the point of startling me

being unnaturally kind esp to the kids, too much change too fast to be real

the feeling that he is using his 3 trips to the therapist to claim a complete change of heart insincere and only so he gets what he wants-namely no divorce

Date: Thursday, February 08, 2001

Well, since my ex was a master at covert abuse, I know a few examples I can contribute. How about this: 1) The covert abuser insists on checking out and commenting on the good looks, sexiness, etc. of other women while you are out in public, right in front of you, as well as women on the television. Then when you say it is rude and unacceptable to you, says, "God are you insecure. Grow up." 2) At gatherings of his family or close friends, leaves you alone and seeks out other groups of people, while you are left to fend for yourself among strangers. When you comment on it, says, "Oh brother! I hadn't seen these people in years and you expect me to sit and hold your hand! Grow up!" 3) Always noticing little flaws in you, but never complimenting you. i.e. Subtle put downs such as, "Why'd you cut your hair? I liked it better before." or "You've got another cold sore, huh?" or "You get a lot of pimples don't you?" or "Why are you wearing a summer dress in the middle of winter?" or "Those pants are too short for you. I don't want you to think you look good, I want you to realize you look goofy so you don't further embarass yourself." 4) Pushes you away when you express affection. i.e. "Oh come on, enough already. Jeez. The honey is over." 5) Questions your knowledge about all sorts of topics, trivia, subjects that you yourself know you are very well-versed in. i.e. "Are you SURE you're right about that? I don't think so. I think you're wrong about that. You don't know what you're talking about." 6) Will never ask you to come over to his place. When you ask if he wants you to come over, says blandly, "If you want." 7) Acts annoyed when you call him at work. Yet will not hesitate to tell you how often his buddies, male and female, call him at work and how they chat all the time, throughout the day. 8) Compliments his female friends, saying they're "good gals", never puts them down. Never compliments you, however. Then when you ask for some type of reassurance, again points to your insecurity. 9) Often forgets to introduce you at gatherings so that you are forced to introduce yourself> When he does remember to introduce you he forgets to say you are his girlfriend or wife or significant other

HOPE THIS HELPS> I HAVE LEFT THE ABOVE mentioned loser< so not to worry!

Date: Saturday, February 10, 2001

If you send emails in response to these posts please do not send one to this account (it is a girl who's boyfriend is really good friends with my husband and I don't want anything to get back to him)

Okay, The examples of making messes and not cleaning up, or the caring for the kids (lack of), I can definitely relate to. Several of the examples of an abuser are present in my husband. There are others I would like to add: 1. Undermining my disciplinary measures (go to your room), then treating me like a child in front of the kids (we have 4), which I feel shows the kids not to respect what I say. Example: I asked my 6 yr. old to throw away a pizza box. She flat out refused, I told her if she didn't want to do that (I was busy getting her younger brothers ready for bed, her dad was watching t.v.) then she could go to her room and go to bed (it was time anyway). She whined and her dad told her she didn't have to, then told me I was being irrational trying to send her to bed because she wouldn't do something I was too lazy to do and I was acting like a complete idiot. Irrational! Coming from a guy who has kicked in the side of my stove, threatened to put my teeth down my throat because we were arguing, choked me twice (denies it.), slapped me a couple times (denies it.), hit my kids and has called all of us some pretty nasty names! There are numerous other things, but this is going to be long enough as it is. Then there's the put downs for my disorganization, I try to get organized but it seems like every bit of effort I put into getting things organized he undermines by telling me my systems make no sense, that I'm taking too much time on trivial unimportant stuff when I should be cooking, cleaning or taking care of the kids. Or he demands a multitude of things (snacks, drinks, glasses, cigarettes, etc.) while I'm busy and he could be getting it. The house being such a mess is another big thing with him, (we have 4 kids: 6, 4, 3, & 1. While I'm trying to get something done he will sit and watch them tear up other things that I finished before! He doesn't offer to help with anything. I don't know how many times I've had to hide bills because he doesn't give me the $150 a week we've agreed on several times in the past 5 years. Then he says he did and what did I do with all the money, why aren't the bills paid and why don't we have this, that, and the other thing around the house. He flakes out and claims I loan my mother money, I don't anymore( I have in the past, but she has also helped me) He says I suck as a wife, homemaker, and a parent, but with some help from him I wouldn't suck so bad at it! Then there's the threat of him taking my van, I pay the insurance and ultimately I will be the one paying his mother back for the loan.

Anyway-I am planning on getting out. As soon as I have some of this videotaped for proof in court. It's not to the point that I'm really worried about being killed by him, yet, so I feel confident that I can obtain the proof I need to keep him away from me and my kids. He has my brothers, his family, and his friends convinced I'm making it all up and they will go to court for him and testify to that, since I'm not willing to hope the courts see through him and assign custody to me (they should just because I am a good parent but my husbands family has money and he has already told me he will lie under oath.) any way I want absolute proof of what he is for the world to see. (He is totally in to how the world at large view him-you know appearances.)

Date: Monday, February 12, 2001

Finds out how you feel about something, i.e. "discusses" a matter with you as if your input is valuable to him, or outright asks you how you feel about something/what would make you happy, makes you feel so special because he's including you, and goes out of his way to do the OPPOSITE. I had three years of that on a constant basis. THANK GOD I'M OUTTA THERE!

Date: Tuesday, February 13, 2001

I previously submitted examples of covert abuse on February 8th. I visited this site again and read some more of people's stories and I am trembling from anger, just reading them. I left my abuser, but come to Dr. Irene's site frequently whenever I start to forget the reasons why I left. Anyway, I've got another example of verbal abuse. When you say things like, "I need to express how I feel. I'm feeling badly about..." etc. the abuser will interrupt you and MIMIC you in a childish, sing-song voice, as if that was how you were talking. After mimicking you, he will say, "You should hear yourself. You sound like a child. You ARE a child. Grow up." How's that for a tremendous slap in the face, a blow to your heart, a middle finger to your struggle to show how you feel? How about this comment: "You are so (insert four letter word here, folks) up, you will never be able to keep any man. Your insecurity will drive every man away from you. You need to know the truth about this." Translation: "You're doomed. You will never find and keep love because you are so flawed, beyond repair." And what I find SO unbelievably, incredibly hard to digest, is that HE IS THIS WAY ONLY WITH YOU. Everyone else says he's a "good guy", so sweet, so nice, so helpful, etc. This is because to so-called friends and strangers and co-workers, he IS a good guy, so sweet, so nice, so helpful to people who don't expect anything from him like commitment or compassion or concern. They are outside the circle of intimacy (if you can actually call your relationship with him 'intimate') If these female friends of his were to step INSIDE that pseudo-intimate circle, they'd have a good time for maybe about a month. Then the nightmare would begin because they would start to require more than the abuser is willing to give --- you know, ridiculous things like LOVE, AFFECTION, LOYALTY, CONSISTENCY, TENDERNESS, COMPASSION, COMMITMENT (EMOTIONAL COMMITMENT). Because the verbal abuser is so insecure, he NEEDS to have people (other than those inside the circle) think well of him and say nice things about him and call him a "good guy". This is his way of socially masturbating himself and denying that he is MONSTROUS, SELF-CENTERED, SELFISH, CRUEL and (ironically) UNLIKEABLE. This is how he justifies his cruelty to his girlfriend/wife/SO. In reality, the abuser is the bad guy hiding behind the good guy smile. He is the wolf in the sheep's clothing. And nobody really knows this except the little lamb who puts up with his abuse. Well, I was that little lamb, and I got out, with the help of faith, friends, and some hidden, inner core of self-esteem I never knew I had until it was pushed to the brink. I hope everyone who visits Dr. Irene's site and who recognizes themselves in these stories, GETS OUT. You have the same inner core of self-esteem in you, and it is there waiting for you to honor it, and to honor yourselves. It makes me incredibly angry that we allow/allowed ourselves to be subjected to such horrible treatment, whether overt or covert. Don't believe the devil when he talks to you anymore. You all know in your heart what you deserve, and it is not what you are getting from your abuser.

Date: Thursday, February 22, 2001

when i asked about our finances i was told 'you don't ask the right questions so how can you expect to get the answer you are looking for' another type of response to me >....... put your thoughts in writing and i will give them my consideration................................I found out that he had been keeping a file on me for years....distorting things i had said and had felt.....it was all about control I was treated no differently than any of his employees and maybe a lot worse. In 20 years of marriage I never got a straightforward response........

Date: Sunday, March 04, 2001

My partner would ultimately disappoint me, by doing the same thing over and over, by making plans with his family, and always, on my day off from work, and not explain why, and leave me, to go for the entire day. After 4 years, it has been an ongoing action of his, and I am left with anger, and disbelief. I am now in counselling. Is this considered overt abuse?

Date: Monday, March 05, 2001

He takes over jobs around the house because you don't do it right.

Calls you like a child and then shows you what you did wrong in a very condescending manner.

Notices every mistake you make and points it out.

Date: Sunday, March 11, 2001

Introduces you as "His Driver" to the cute girl that just cut his hair, after he had told you to wait in the car.

Said he doesn't want to take you to his games cuz he doesn't want guys to look at you.

Asking why you are getting dolled up to go to an AA meeting.

That I better jump at this chance to be with him because he is one in a million

Date: Tuesday, March 20, 2001

steels my ring, i end up tearing up my place looking for it. he had it the whole time and said you needed to go through that because you cant take care of your things.

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Wednesday, May 02, 2001

do I ever..........more examples of covert abuse........refuses to exchange feelings on everything...actually, turns his back to me while I am expressing hurt or angry...............over his neglect......recently (2 Days ago) realized how he checks on me, feining concern, but really undermining my confidence to care for my self........"would you like a cup of tea?" translates to you are not capable in the kitchen....I have to do everything for you i.e. power over....friends are envious because he is so sweet to me in public...family tells me I am spoiled rotten.......they do not see how he truly is...because he never raises his voice to me....he rolls his eyes so they can see how "stupid " I am........they do not see the covert control he excerises over me............in 20 years, I no longer know who I am...(sometimes I feel so angry with myself for believing his lies)and how patient he is..I no longer know what makes me happy. I have wanted so to belong... still, I work at being grateful for all that I do have and in a sense I know and feel that I am some sort of a miracle.This comes from way inside me and some how I know I am so much more than his portral of me. Inspite of my family's abuse , which is the foundation for my husband's abuse to me.............I do believe I am on my way to recovery..I hope to never ever call anyone names again in response to their abuses of my spirit . I understand perfectly.The abuse has been severe. The covert abuse is the kind that puts a lump in your throat and your stomach and maybe just both places......it is your reaction that tells it is covert...you want to cry...and eventually you discover how difficult the crying is on you..........covert abuse makes you feel bad when all you really wanted to do was to feel happy and loving.........and eventually you realize that know matter what it is called, no matter how many times he says "I love YOU".................covert abuse is not love because the simple truth is LOVE FEELS GOOD.

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Wednesday, May 09, 2001

Your daughter planned a wonderful surprise birthday party for you, but he did not have a gift there for you. Said he wanted to give it on your "real" birthday, 2 days later. His job was to get the cake. Said he wanted to do something really special and make "Baked Alaska" but could not find a recipe. So you had no cake either. His total contribution to the party=0.

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Thursday, May 17, 2001

Hi,

I'd like to post about my experiences with an abuser. They're fairly ghastly, though.

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Sunday, June 03, 2001

Dating a year, engaged another year, then married for 2 months: " I was not really ready for marriage. This was my mother who thought I needed to marry." (He is 5 years older than me :)

"I have something to confess, to have a clean heart before you. I just got a thought, that if you crashed with the airplane, I'd marry Anne." {names changed here and below}

We have planned a day in nature, he's driving. He picks up 2 hitchiking young girls, before leaving one of them asks a small sum of money from him. He gives her the money and tells me afterwards that the girl was "offering herself" for return. (Actually she did not, as I heard everything).

Image of another girl on his computer's desktop.

A door of his quite old car does not close easily. When I'm trying to close the door, he mentions that Susy has never problem with it.

Attributing all his health problems to restrictions put on him by life with me and children. I say: "I have never forbidden you to travel more, if this is what you need, do it". Then he starts to threathen me with "terrible things" he could do when travelling alone.

I say to our 8 y child: "No more sweets today". He asks aloud: "Why cannot she have some?".

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Wednesday, June 06, 2001

Treats you disrespectfully in public by walking ahead of you on the way from the car to the store.

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Wednesday, June 06, 2001

I wish you had more on covert abuse. Even though I've identified myself as co-dependt and am working on taking care of me and not trying fix things for him, I find it hard to call him abusive. He gets angry and won't listen--ie communicate. He throws things, threatens to leave, forgets my birthdays, "forgot" Christmas this year--but is he abusive? I suppose so. Now that I am sticking up for myself and insisting that my needs get met (I am a strong woman) he says i blame for everything. Here is our pattern: * Bob gets mad about something I am or not doing-- * We fight. (I used to try and placate him and make it better but now I’m trying to be honest from the get go)He used to get really angry--but now I’ve noticed that he tries to stop showing that so much (i.e. instead of throwing something across the room, he kicks over the tomato plant outside). * I try to talk about incidents or facts and persuade him to see it another way (control?) * he can’t hear me. he says I blame him. he gets angrier and has bursts of anger either throwing things, kicking things, slamming doors, stomping out, cursing, threatening to leave me. * I generally get mad too and use sarcasm, sometimes I curse * He or I leave--usually him * I write about it and sometimes give him a note of explanation * he may or may not read--will usually throw it away. * he punishes me by withdrawing for 1 day to two weeks. Issue is never addressed * when he feels better he pretends that everything is all right and can't udnerstand why I am not appreciative that all is well--(I used to be so grateful things were "good" now I am reserved becasue i know its the lull before the storm) * I will tell him where I see my part in our trouble and apologise for my shortcomings and outline how I will try and change * He will agree with my shortcomings and may or may not apologize for his angry outburst. He will never admit to contributing to anything but his anger * if I bring up past fights or complaints, he will say that I am blaming him, he says I’m bringing up the past and he refuses to discuss it or we fight again. He will say that I caused the whole thing--(IE I did or did not do something that originally displeased or angered him and started the whole thing)

He has now latched onto the co-dependt thing that he can't "make" me feel bad or make me miserable. So If I feel bad that he forgot to buy me a Christmas prsent or forgt my birthday--or didn't really get me anything i'd life for my birthday--then its my problem becasue he isn't resposnible for my feelings. my husband left me tonight. He forgot my sobriety birhtday (last year he was mad and refused to go to the meeting to get my tolken) this year he just forgot--He got angry at me when I told him calmy i was hurt. Later, he really apologised in a sincere manner but said he got angry at the situation becasue i made i pulle d away when he tried tohug me--interesting that he balmed me for his anger!. Then we fought over turning the lights out. He "gently" reminds me that i don't turn off the bathroomlights--Both of us forget to turn off lights frequently. I laugh and ignore it--but he often points it out to me--even though in reality he leavesmore lights and appliances on then i ever do. So he "remeinded' me to be more diligent about the bathroom lights. In my co-dependent days, i just blow it off and let him critisie and point out my "defects. But now, I'm fed up. He left the house in themorening right after telling me to remember to turn them off, then he leaves them on when he leaves. I thougth--I could let it go like I do so often--Pick your battles-- type of thing, yet I am resentful that he is always pointing out my shortcomings as if I'm a child (try to do this better sweetheart, or put the window downnow, or why isn't the air ocnditioning on?blah blah blah). so Id ecided if he wants us to point out our appliance turning off habits to each other we would. I asked him how he would like us to do that? eAch time, every three times? How? He was infuriated with me. Stomped all over. Called off vacatin to Mexico (we lose $400--but I will still go). He pointed out that I didn't get him anything for his sobriety birthdya--I told him I wished him a happy AA birthday (I did) but that i wasn't going to keep making Christmases, birthdays, and holidays wodnerful (which I do) for him and his son and have everyone of mine runined. he set the tone for our holidays and I was simply following suit. If he wanted to change it, he could. Again he repeated that he couldn't make me miserable--i repeated that he didn't make me miserable he was the one acting angry,not me--I wasn't going to any longer pretend that's it OK for him to trash all my holidays. I wouldn't get mad, but if i have no holidays, neither does he--9from me, anyway). So he left me. I could have averted the whole thing by simply do what i used--make it all better, let him hug me and pretend that its OK. that I "fogive" hi little oversight. Last week was my regualr birthday and he got an antenna booster for me! told me it wasn not me 'real" gift-- that I was getting something else nicer--and of course it never materialized. Tehn he picked a horrble fight withme on my birthday becasue his son called me to wish me a happy birthday and handed the phone to him Mom and i was nice to her one the phone! he was furious with me for talking friendly to her. So Ilet him leave me. This the covert stuff we need ore help with. It seems prettys ubtle to me--the "forgetting" teh fights on your supposedly 'happy" days--the total lack of apprecaiteion for anythign big you do (support half the suppor for his son and take care of him all the time) and loads of praise when I bake a loaf of bread! could you do a whole page on covert abuse? it gets so tricky udnerstanding why you're not grateful--i mean me the woman. He doesn't drink, gamble, run around--yet I'm not happy and then everyone tells you, "You are responsible for your own feelings and no one can MAKE you feel anything. But it seems to me that I'm missing somehting here. shelly daybyday@erols.com

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Wednesday, June 13, 2001

Is always talking about how good other women look. pinches the fat on my stomach to "subtley" let me know he wants me yo lose weight.

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Tuesday, June 19, 2001

WHEN HE DOES SOMETHING IRRESPONSIBLE AND YOU CALL HIM ON IT AND HE SAYS "I WISHED I WAS AS PERFECT AS YOU, OR IF I WAS AS PERFECT AS YOU."

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Friday, June 29, 2001

- Says he will go to church and take the children, but I'm not good enough to take --real christian attitude! - Intentionally picks a fight while we're getting ready to go somewhere so I spend the next hour or two begging him to go. -

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Friday, June 29, 2001

In my case, my ex boyfriend was reading my email the whole time we were dating. Sometimes as it happens on line.. someone would send a email saying "so were in southern ca do you live, etc"... I never responded back to any of these emails. SO, here is what my ex did... he would tell me of this "dream" he had were someone was trying to pick up on me.. and "this person had horns"... I wouldnt know what he was talking about. He would be relentless in asking me about this dream.. because after all whenever he has one of these dreams, he is right! Then days go by and I remember OH MY GOD, this stranger named "viking" is who sent me a unsolicited email. Stupid me, would tell him, and validate his pyschic moment! NOT knowing he had been voliating my privacy all along. What burns me is this.. whenever I would sign on line, he would run to the other room saying.. "no I dont want to know you password".. I would say, you can know it, I dont care. (I wouldnt have cared... its the sneaking and setting me up part I loath) Now I know, he was doing this "act" all for my benifit........ so that I would never change my password. GRRRRR, okay so I am still in the angry stage.. its only been three weeks. This is just part of the things that were crazy making, I am so glad that I finally see how this all works.

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Sunday, July 01, 2001

everything is your fault, and refuses to look at any of his behavior, as to why I react the way I do, because if I would just listen to him, everything would be ok..

If you finally prove he is wrong about something, and normally its after youve beat the situation to death..he will point out something else that he knows you have done, no matter how long ago it was..and your left with no other choice but to say...your right, I did do that...and you can either keep on arguing, knowing you will never ever ever get him to agree with you, or walk way feeling guilty for something you did 3 years ago..

Feel like you could walk out of his life, and it wouldn't faze him in the least..because its not like your a part of it any way..

when you try to point out, that he has no time for you in his life, he says, I'm sorry I have to work for a living so we can have a roof over or heads and eat, put gas in the cars. I can't stay home like you and do nothing all day.

when your in the mood for sex, he says, lets wait until tomorrow... and tomorrow never comes...

Find out about things when hes either talking to a friend on the phone or in person, and when you ask, when were you going to let me know that you plan to go to where ever, he says I told you...or I just did..

tells you things in a way that don't fully explain what hes really telling you, until you ask about it specifically, then says, I told you last week remember... when yes you remember and your left so confused..and don't even try and tell him he didn't,

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Monday, July 09, 2001

Tells you exactly what she wants for a present and then when she gets it, acts like its not good enough or not what she wanted.

Receives a gift and doesn't say thank you, but acts as though you owe it to her.

Tells you she will stop by, never shows up and never calls to explain why she will not be able to be there.

Expects you to listen while she rants and raves and complains, but the minute you have a concern or a problem to discuss.. she has to go.

Makes plans months in advance for a special weekend and then tells you, without discussion she has something else to do and assumes you will just cancel the plans she has made with you, no questions asked.. no hurt feelings and expects you to "understand".

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Monday, July 09, 2001

Says things like"no one else in the world would dial my phone more than once". Makes out that all of my behavior is "crazy".

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Monday, July 09, 2001

Refuses to make plans ahead of time with me. Won't spend more than one night at a time with me"because you might get too comfortable". Spends 2 weeks of the month away but won't call while he's away because I haven't been perfect in some way. Sexually abuses me, but tells me it's because he has to have control over me and I won't let him.Calls me a whore .

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Monday, July 09, 2001

When I carefully explain how important something is to me, says "I understand" and then refuses to do it anyway.He wouldn't have any kind of sex with me but oral sex, during which he would hurt me. I explained for years that I hated it and I wanted to have "real sex". H e wouldn't .I always felt rejected and not good enough and he knew it.

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Monday, July 09, 2001

He broke up with me in a vicious way.It took me a long time, but I was finally beginning to get over it. Two years after we broke up, on my birthday, he called. He sucked me right back in. For over a year, he verbally and emotionally abused me on the phone. I never saw him in person because he "couldn't trust me". I spent all that time trying to be what he wanted,knowing I never could be.I am not good enough-that was the message of our whole relationship. He never told me he loved me while we were together. After he started calling again, he told me he had loved me and that I should have known. How? By being told all my faults, by being criticised constantly, by being told what I should think and feel. By being ignored and rejected? I wasn't even allowed to make any plans with him,I always came last. I had been briefly married when I was a teenager. When I told him about that about 6 months into our relationship, he told me that I had lied to him and that not telling him about that when we were first dating had damaged our whole relationship. He told me-that explains why you're crazy. I am a successful, professional woman in my 40's. I haven't spoken to him in 3 months , but I live every day in fear that I will call him .I know he will eventually call me -unless he has found a new victim. God help me, I love him still, but I want out of this prison.

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Tuesday, July 10, 2001

Yeah, how about: always has the TV, PC, or headphones w/ music on, so when you need to ask him a question (what time do you want dinner?) that it's truly an interruption for him. 2) "I'm finished talking to you." 3) "I'm sick of your voice." 4) "Just leave me alone.....I'm just trying to relax" (w/ the PC, TV, headphones EVERY night, for hours. 5) "You're crazy." 6) "She's just a friend.....we tell each other we love each other all the time.......(but) no, you can't read our email (my husband and his "friend"). that's private.

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Tuesday, July 10, 2001

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Friday, July 13, 2001

I ASKED MY HUSBAND IF HE WANTED TO SPEND THE DAY WITH ME AND THE BABY AND HE SAYS, SURE WHAT DO YOU WANT TO DO? I SAY ANYTHING- THE PARK, THE MOVIES, LUNCH. JUST BE TOGETHER SINCE WE HAVEN'T BEEN GETTING ALONG I THINK IT WOULD BE GOOD FOR US. HE AGREES, HE TAKES A SHOWER AND SAYS I AM GOING TO THE STORE, I WILL BE BACK SHORTLY----8 HOURS LATER HE RETURNS. I SAY, WHAT HAPPENED TO YOU? OH, HE SAYS I CALLED YOU AND THERE WAS NO ANSWER AND I TRIED YOUR CELL PHONE AND NO ANSWER, I WANTED TO GO PLAY HORSE SHOES ANYWAY. HE IS VERY PASSIVE AGGRESIVE TOO.

WHY AM I STILL HERE IN THIS FRIKIN JOKE OF A MARRIAGE.? HE MAKES EVERYTHING OUT TO BE MY FAULT. I WAS ONCE A SELF ASSURED, CONFIDENT, TAKE NO SH-- CHICK. WHEN YOU'RE IN IT YOU SURE DON'T KNOW UNTIL IT'S TOO LATE. YOU'RE SUCKED IN! BUT IS IT TOO LATE?-- I THINK NOT!!!!!!!!! I'M PAYING OFF MY BILLS, PUTTING ALL MY EGGS IN MY BASKET, PREANING MY WINGS--READY FOR FLIGHT.

TINA TURNER SINGS A SONG ON HER TWENTY-FOUR SEVEN CD--"WHEN THE HEARTACHE IS OVER-I KNOW I WON'T BE MISSING YOU" "WON'T LOOK OVER MY SHOULDER----------

ANYONE WHO IS STUCK IN THIS KIND OF RELATIONSHIP AND HAS KIDS GET OUT!!!! IF YOU'RE TOO AFRAID TO DO IT FOR YOURSELF-THEN DO IT FOR YOUR KIDS. WE ARE TEACHING OUR SONS TO ACT THIS WAY AND WE ARE TEACHING OUR DAUGHTERS THAT IT IS OK TO BE TREATED LIKE THIS----BULL SH--. STOP THE INSANITY.

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Friday, August 03, 2001

He says the relationship just isn't working out because he needs to find someone he can trust and someone who trusts him. Meanwhile, he never trusted anyway and purposely does things so I wouldn't trust him, yet he is the one who needs to leave.

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Saturday, August 04, 2001

When in a public place, he may be talking to you, but his eyes are roaming up and down every pretty lady or teen that walks by him. He is checking them out right in front of you. When you remark about his "roving" eye, he tells you that you're crazy.

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Wednesday, August 08, 2001

Plays games with money to manipulate things. Checkbook tends to show only $100-$200 at any given time or so when actually I found the balance to be as high as $7000! (I checked the ATM machine, then verified it by balancing the checkbook myself.) He does this by not writing his paycheck deposits into the checkbook. He bitches and complains constantly that we have no money, and says that it's my fault because I spend too much. I've gotten to the point that I have very few clothes and haven't bought anything for the house (pictures, dishes, etc.) in about 2 years. We live in a $250K house and drive nice cars, have a combined income over $120K (I earn over $50K) ... He spends money liberally on his special building projects (hobbies), on expensive gifts for me and the kids, computers and electronic gadgets. I have been trying to get closer to my family after years of distance but they all live about 1000 miles away ... He says we can't afford for me to visit them. I went to visit anyway recently - he hardly spoke to me for 4 days, then complained about the cost, wanted to know all the places we ate out, etc. etc. .... it only cost $300 total for the trip.

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Wednesday, August 15, 2001

August 15,2001 Insisted on watching TV, playing video games, doing crossword puzzles while I asked to discuss the relationship or something important to me. Asked me if I thought so and so women are pretty or beautiful on television. He told me he thinks "Britney Spears will surely have a lasting career with 'that face and those boobs.' Tried setting me against my family by saying how I should move away from my mom and sisters. Constantly saying he strongly disliked my family and my mother. He "hates my family." I would call him to discuss something important and he said he would call me back later and when he did he was on his cell catching a bus so it wasn't a good time to talk. So then he called back from his apartment with food in his mouth saying he'd have to call me back because he was making dinner. And so on and so forth. Ugh! Always praised himself how hot he looked but seemingly purposely withheld gaving me compliments on my appearence when we went out. When I showed him my art porfolio he had a very difficult time acknowledging it. When I played for him my favorite cd he mocked it and stopped it and put on the radio. When I shared some great news with him he changed the subject by focusing on himself. Thank God he's OUT of my life!!!

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Wednesday, August 22, 2001

complains of headache or other unseen ailment on the night/day of something important to you (out of town guests, concert, etc) asks personal, intimate questions suggesting a golden moment of 'sharing', then when the same question is posited to him declares 'It's really none of your business' Never ready to go to time sensitive events that are important to you on time takes you out to eat to 'celebrate your 20lb weight loss' gives you 'joke presents' for something you specifically asked for, ex. a watch shaped wall clock when you asked for a wrist watch

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Monday, August 27, 2001

Try to discuss something you feel is a problem, and it gets turned back around, reflecting something you did in the past.

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Tuesday, August 28, 2001

Makes big plans to do something together, then finds some reason to get upset with me just as we are getting ready to go and blows up, saying, "Well, I just won't go then!", or "We just won't go then!", I then bend to his wishes, he calms down, and we end up doing the activity. This can be as small as a shopping trip or dinner party to a vacation!

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Friday, September 14, 2001

-Goes along with a major decision you think you both made together and backs out at the 11th hour -Knows he's supposed to meet you and your family for a meal; doesn't show, no phone call and won't answer phone at home -Asks you to take day off from work so you can go somewhere as a family, you call in ill, and he's now too tired to go anywhere. Objective: didn't want to take care of toddler while I worked -Makes a "deal" with son, you can have expensive Lego for 5 weeks of back-rubs. When son is tired of doing this, states "I'd think better about those Lego's if I had a rub". PS: I did not allow this to go further than the first hour! Then, when I told him exactely what I saw him doing he "couldn't believe" this conversation coming from a women of my age!

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Tuesday, October 09, 2001

THANK YOU, Dr. Irene for the "Covert Abuse" page & links. Here's another "covert operation" that the abuser (that I am detaching from, One Day At A Time!) just used today on me. However, his plan was foiled, thanks to your site I just happened to read last night! We have a counseling session scheduled for two days from now. Up until today, "my" abuser has been very verbally abusive. NOW, he's being as sweet as the icing on my grandmother's birthday cake; knowing full well what will no doubt come out in the counseling session!! ( I just smile at him over our phone calls.......saying "Okay" alot, while committing to nothing!) God Bless You, Dr. Irene *S* Sara

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Tuesday, October 16, 2001

"Does not have time" to get you something in time for your birthday, but apologizes and tells you he will "owe you". Then a week and a half later when you come home with something you bought yourself, gets annoyed and tells you that it was what he was going to get you (and you were supposed to know this), but since you already bought it, here's a check to pay for it.....

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Friday, October 19, 2001

Disconnects the phone line where it enters the house when he leaves so the phone is "dead". You call the phone repair service from a neighbor's; the phone company can find no obvious reason for the interruption of service. Service is magically restored as soon he returns home--you must have been mistaken all along (gaslighting).

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Friday, October 19, 2001

He knows I like to park my new car in the garage so he junked up the whole place so I couldn't get my car inside. When I asked him to clean the garage he ded but he took his time about it. Then he disabled the garage door opener--by unplugging it or disengaging the chain mechanism. When I came home and the garage door wouldn't open he said the batteries in the remote must be dead. He promised to check them for me shortly. After a few minutes he called me to the garage (he had reconnected the garage door opener) and showed me that the remote and garage door worked fine. The batteries had been OK--I must be too stupid to use a remote correctly. After I figured out what he was doing and learned to reconnect the garage door opener myself he padlocked the garage. I found some bolt cutters and cut the lock off. He thought that was a great joke since the key was on a shelf next to the garage door just high enough to be out of my line of sight.

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Friday, October 19, 2001

I was in a traffic accident and had to be transported to the hospital. A few days later I realized that my bag with my purse, Bible, and day planner was missing. When I asked my husband about it he said he had not taken it out of the vehicle before it was towed away. He insisted that I call the towing company and ask them to return it to me. I was told that my husband had signed a form indicating that he had removed all items of value from the vehicle before it was towed. My husband swore the tow truck driver must have stolen it and the company was lying to me. I had to call several credit card and report the cards as stolen. A couple weeks later my husband bragged that he had a friend that was so reliable that if he took an item to him he would safeguard it until my husband returned for it. Six weeks later I commented how much I missed the Bible I had had for 20 years. I said that if it were returned I'd be so grateful I wouldn't ask any questions. Days later my bag, with all the contents intact' appeared one morning on our front porch. It reeked of cigarette smoke (we don't smoke but his trustworthy buddy does). One extra item was inside the bag--a presciption bottle for a little prescribed medication that my husband takes with the name and address portion of the label ripped off. When I confronted my husband with this information he said, "I knew you were lying when you said you wouldn't ask any questions if your things were returned."

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Saturday, October 20, 2001

On New Year's Eve, my husband kissed me 4th at midnight (sister, son, dog then me). I told him right then that that upset me, he laughed and said whatever.... We turned on the TV and there was another countdown on. At the "second" midnight, he kissed me 4th again. We agreed that our new baby would sleep in bed with us. We made a rule that we could not drink alcohol and sleep in the bed with the baby. He would drink several beers before he went to bed and blame me for asking him to leave the "family bed" every night.

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Friday, October 26, 2001

Oh yes yes i have. (I should point out that this is an online relationship, or WAS) *Talking to a female friend on the internet who has previously tried to split us up, and letting it slip later, only when I ask him why he had been so quiet (He would make me wait while he talked to her) *Making me wait till 11.30 at night to talk to him online, when he would be sitting doing nothing at home--just in order to control our time together. *Limiting his time with me by saying that being online 'bored' him (hmm thanks) *Saying that he avoided coming online because 'I never stop nagging' and 'everything would be alright if I would accept that my attitude was to blame for all our problems'. *Abusing others publicly and when I asked him to stop because he was hurting people 'they can't take a joke' or 'well you would take their side' *The recurring theme was always if i would get my attitude right we wouldn't have a problem, and If i hadn't had friends to support me I might have believed it. I will say that having just emerged from this relationship I had an abusive e-mail telling me to point the finger at myself, and learn to take the blame. I felt, and still feel, completely bemused that anyone could be so callous and cruel (if i said 'hi' to a male friend he would flood my pc for hours with abusive names for me), and still say they loved me. My message to anyone else, is just RUN.

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Thursday, November 01, 2001

-A few Christmas' I didn't even get a present, as he said he didn't have time to shop. This was done in the presence of the rest of the family who laughed it off. -At a professional dinner it was customary for the recipient of any award to aknowledge the support of their spouse, that was the was it was done for years. When he got his award I got none. this was worse than the gift, as I felt publically humiliated.

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Thursday, November 22, 2001

uses langauage to manipulate your thoughts and feelings, by the time he is finished you have no idea what you were thinking.

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Wednesday, December 05, 2001

Throws food away if not cooked "perfectly" or refuses to eat it right in front of guests. They ask you to do a favor for them, but you didn't do it exactly right, and they say "how difficult is it to...", accompanied by much anger. Puts down a raise or promotion you got as insignificant. Accuses you or your children of ridiculous things. Hides things from you or children, or locks the door to keep someone out, signifying great mistrust. Always finds an excuse why they can't do a favor for you. You get to where you don't even ask anymore, to avoid the negative response. You are not allowed to be angry or to have a bad day or be in a bad mood, this just triggers their anger and disgust, certainly no empathy.

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Wednesday, December 05, 2001

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Sunday, December 30, 2001

Two examples of covert abuse from my ex...."come and see what I have found - a better car than the one we have now!" "Do you think we should buy it?" "Can we afford it?" "You get a say in the decision too....I'll leave the final say up to you". Six months later when the car needs repairs done to it, it's, "I KNEW we shouldn't have bought it". Implied but never said outright, "You shouldn't have agreed to buying it.....you made a bad decision". This totally ignores the fact that I wasn't the one who went looking to buy another car in the first place. This kind of 'passing the buck' happenned constantly in our 19 years together and I never did figure out a way of stopping him from doing it short of saying, "No, I don't think we need it, nor do I think we can afford it". No matter what "it" may have been that he wanted, if I disagreed or refused to make the final decision to purchase, he would spend weeks espousing the items virtues and advantages, and deriding whatever item we had that he wished to replace....worse still, was when he would begin telling me what a bargain buy I had caused us to miss out on. His other 'favourite' was to TELL me what I was planning, thinking or feeling and then insist that he was right when I denied thinking, planning or feeling what he said I was. Effectively, our marriage ended when I travelled interstate to get some much needed grief counselling over the sudden death of my 42 year old sister. At the time, we lived in the Northern Teritory, Australia, where therapists are few and not known for their excellence in this area. The day I left on what we both agreed was to be a six week absence, he started saying, "You're leaving me aren't you?...I'm never going to see you again am I?....you've been planning to leave me for ages haven't you?". When I denied this - stating that I had a return ticket and would be back in six weeks, he reiterated, "No you won't be. Please don't lie to me....you're leaving me forever aren't you?...tell me the truth". Needless to say after a week of daily phone calls from him telling me what I was doing / planning, I agreed with his version of the truth in an attempt to stop the harassment. The moment I said, "Okay, I'll tell you the truth, I'm leaving you and have been planning it for ever", he came back with, "Please don't leave me - I need you. You know I love you.....I've always loved you and only you from the very first day we met....I'll wait for you forever if thats what it takes.....I'll take you back today, tomorrow or in 30 years...it doesn't how long I have to wait....it doesn't matter when you want to come back to me....Just say the word - I'll be waiting. I could never, ever love anyone but you". For him, "waiting thirty years" for me to decide to come back to him meant precisely 12 weeks.... Sue. P.

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Sunday, December 30, 2001

Wants me to do a lot of his work in his business so as to save money and not hire anyone.... Wants me to like his sense of humor that includes killing babies...calls my daughter a spoiled brat and me a bitch on a regular basis...tells me how my sister can run her business better..continues to discuss me with a person I had expressively asked him to not to....makes jokes about my prosperous lifestyle...tells me how lucky that he came along because no one else could "help me"...constantly talks about his ex-wife and how she screwed up their relationship...tells me my child is not very smart (she's on the "A" honor roll)...

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Thursday, January 03, 2002

drives very aggressively, scaring me. when asked to slow down, and drive patiently, he says i drive like an old lady, and he's just trying to get past the traffic congestion, and does not change his driving. control with fear over me? or incredible self absorbtion with no empathy?

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Tuesday, January 22, 2002

You are constantly reminded how much of a loser you are and how you cannot support yourself and that you are lucky to have him there for you (while withholding more than three times his income for child support.)

Hiring beautiful assistants and bringing them by your workplace for some vague reason.

Getting in an arguement and being determined to leave, then getting a phone call from his insurance agent a few days later politely persuading you that you should take out an insurance policy for yourself.

Being used as the butt of jokes with his friends.

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Monday, January 28, 2002

Going out to dinner and he is constantly looking at other women. Has to sit where he can see who is coming and going. If a nice looking woman is sitting near he is looking at her as if she is going to come on to him right there. Would have me come to his business on my days off and I would wait sometimes for 2 hours for him(because he is so busy and just couldn't get away when he said for me to be there). Going to visit a couple that had both been our friends but he and the female have a special relationship even though the male is supposed to be his best friend. He has told me that I should be as good as she is--she is wonderful. Has always told me that I was not a good mother to our children. I didn't do much of anything right. I am not very good with teenagers so before he volunteered to be the youth deacon at our church I told him it was not my forte'--which he already knew. He did it anyway. I did not prevent him from doing anything. I just didn't attend a lot of functions. I was also going through nursing school at the time. So lots of Sunday evenings after church I would study. He has never forgiven me for that. I hope and pray that God is more forgiving of me. He can never be praised enough for anything that he does. He has many titles and honors and has been president of just about everything. I certainly cannot remember all of them. He is extremely critical of my not remembering all of the details(times etc.) I was married for 28 and 1/2 years and finally walked out. Only because I had supportive friends who have degrees in psychology and family counseling. I had become so depressed that I only saw one way out--death. I, of course, did not recognize my depression. My spirit was killed!! I saw the book, The Verbally Abusive Relationship,on line. I went as fast as I could and bought it. I was fascinated by what I read. It was my life. Who could know that others were going through the same things? One time he disabled my car on a Saturday so that I could not go to my hair appointment. He took off the battery cables and the distributor cap, but I was able to put it back together. I learned never to go anywhere without a spare key to my car. Never leave the hotel key without my key--he might lock me out. He would get in a fight with me when we would be out of town and then tell me to get out of the hotel room. One time after he had looked at this woman at a social function and totally disregarded my presence I went outside. When I came back in I sat and watched him as he had gone over and was talking with her. Later that evening after a fight he admitted to wanting to talk to her and that he had probably had been looking at her all evening. Then, he got mad at me and told me to get out of the hotel room. I had gotten to a point where I was fearful all of the time and I didn't know what I was afraid of. Going in vehicle with him was a very bad situation--he would start yelling and he is so loud and he would not stop. I would say I give up. I just can't keep fighting and yelling anymore. I would just cry. I hopefully am much better, but not complete. I have been through counseling and have left him. He has physically abused me 3 or 4 times over the course of the years together. He is soooooo wonderful to all other people. Now, he is writing letters to my mother to tell her how he has tried to stop the divorce, but he realizes that is what I want. He tells her how much she means to him and how much my family means to him. He wants to visit with her because he now feels that he is ready to talk about our situation, and if there is anything that he can do for her please call him.

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Monday, January 28, 2002

Dear Dr Irene,

I've come across a few covert tactics that I don't find on any lists:

Most verbal abuse seems to take place when there's no one else around, but my abuser took great delight in using others to "bounce" abuse off:

He would sit next to me but leaning back and shake his head while I was talking to someone. (Read as: "Don't believe what she's saying.") or just pull silly faces (Read as: "She's not to be taken seriously") or he'd ask the kids: "Where's Mom? Gone back to bed?" at midday!! (Read as: "Mom's lazy and I expect she's doing nothing."or similar) Of course, this would have been pointless if I didn't know about it, so he made sure that he repeated it to me or he made his gestures so obvious that I would turn around to see what my friends were looking at while I was talking to them.

I'd like to hear more of this type of abuse.

Thanks for a very helpful site. F.

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Wednesday, January 30, 2002

Yes,and I left and came back b/c I felt I needed to give it one more chance...first my husband took me for a nice two day trip for my birthday and (no warning)then went camping w a single woman and her kid and w HIS KIDS who had treated me poorly for the following weekend. SHE said for me to come on down there and apologize to THEM. This man asked me to HELP HIM PACK for the campout!!!!And that it was "like scouting" and I should lighten up about it (nothing happened he said/ separate tents,etc.) Well am I not cool or what???? I was pissed! Absolutely no responsibility there for any wrongdoing!!!!

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Wednesday, January 30, 2002

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Thursday, January 31, 2002

When you're sick, you're still expected to cook and clean for your abuser. Your abuser rarely, if ever, offers to take care of you when you're ill. Your abuser complains you go to the doctor too much. (Usually, you go because your immune system is compromised and you get sick REALLY often !)

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Tuesday, February 05, 2002

discussing serious issues that affect the family and me with his mother - then telling me what "they" think we should all do - this is something he has done from day one and is still doing this 10 years later!! It is a big red button with me now - but I do remember that when we first got together I was told that someone who treats him mother so well would also treat me well - I made the mistake of believing that! reading my posts over my shoulder! He didn't manage that today! saying that he wants to talk then literally falling asleep when I talk back! I just find this plain rude - so I now walk away and refuse to discuss - ooh and of course he isn't asleep - he was just resting his eyes!! I have said that he needs to see the doctor because it does not seem physically right for someone to be snoring when they are awake!! telling me that his mother has a point regarding her latest criticism of me - this still stings and I get to feeling like being flip - I don't care what she thinks of me - the trouble is I still do because for some reason I would still like her approval - I cannot work out why because this is not an issue for me with my own mother that much these days. getting annoyed when my friend calls - and not leaving me alone to chat - I have nothing to hide but I would like the respect of being offered some privacy - I do give him privacy in this. comparing me to one of his fantasy women and always finding me wanting - I am 11 years older than him and I do feel insecure about my looks especially when I am compared to a younger woman - I am working on this! telling me that I should always back him up when he is yelling, or threatening the kids - telling me that I undermine him when I do not back him - no way I am going to show any of my children that I condone his aggressive or controlling behaviour. I know this maybe abusive and probably confusing to them too - but I feel the need to protect the kids from his behaviour - I feel bad that I cannot be around to do so all of the time. Maybe that will change at some point!! diminishing the things that he knows are important to my son - my 15 year old son is a constant target at present - he is apparently to blame for all the arguments we have - who is he kidding!! always insisting on touching me all of the time - never recognising that I do not want to be touched, kissed or cuddled all the time - then when I say NO he says I am cold and unloving. I feel guilty about pushing him away like I am with holding but I really do not feel particularly loving towards him so do not see why I should return his affection if I don't want to. asking me what I want to do, where I want to go or what I want to eat - then when he has my answer - he tells me this is not what I want! I probably abusively either refuse to answer these questions now - because really I just do not want the argument that comes with them OR I state what I want and refuse to change my mind - so I make my own meal, go where I want to go if it is that important or not go at all. I do more of the stuff that I want to do now since I found this site! Insisting that I entertain his mother when she comes around - says I am being rude if I leave the room or if I just stay quiet. Tells me that his mother has every right to criticise my older children but will not allow them to speak up for themselves. I am working on this one! calls me "white trash" "frigid" " a haggard old bitch" says that I should return from the gutter that he pulled me from - but these are not working anymore because I don't believe what he says anymore - I do know different! Just my thoughts Love and hugs NoAngel

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Thursday, February 07, 2002

You are not my childrens mother. You cannot tell them what to do. They do not have to listen to you. If the behavior they are doing is bad (pot, Porn), you will just have to put up with it because they are my children. I love them. Their alcoholic mother loves them and because you won't accept this behavior...you are a *B*!

I am allowing my child (who has behavior problems) to stay with their alcoholic mother. She loves him!

I have the same problems....so its not a problem for me...why would you have a problem with it? You smoked pot 1 time in your life and now you cannot accept this as normal behavior? You are just as guilty so why fight it?

I need to take care of my son while my ex-wife goes to jail. I will stay at her house with him and you need to be a loving wife and accept this as okay...because this will make me a loving, responsible father.

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Thursday, March 28, 2002

Discounts every thing you say, like The dog urinates when she is excited...I saw it today, he says," she does not I would know that if she did"

Doesn't think about signing moms name to a birthday card to your child only his

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Friday, April 05, 2002

Dear Dr. Irene: I hope you don't find this obnoxiously long, but it is a letter I wrote to my past (covertly abusive) partner's therapist. I never mailed it. It was intended as a healing tool for myself first and foremost. I wrote it a couple of days before valentines day, 2002. It has only been 8 weeks since the breakup.

Dear Dr: I may mail this, I may not. You may believe me, you may not. Part of me is inclined to write as a form of healing the emotional wounds that I have borne over the last year or so, and partly for the sake of possible damage control. I probably could do with some therapy myself at this point, but can’t afford it. I know that T re-writes history to his own advantage and he is very smooth and manipulative about it. Please don’t think I underestimate your abilities, I certainly don’t, but another perspective on the situation can cut through a lot of BS. That is what I am hoping to accomplish. I also want you to know that I was more than willing to come to therapy with T to try to work some of this stuff out, but he wouldn’t let me. He went around the neighbourhood telling everyone, I would NEVER go with him. I want you to know the truth, too.

It’s a long story, so I’ll start at the beginning. I met T when he moved into our small, close lakeside community. We started spending evenings together and at the three-month mark, I make the first move and it became an intimate relationship. (We were beginning to think there was something wrong with T, how prophetic we actually were.) Just before this point, he brought along a woman (P) who he worked with, to a party at my friend Ms house. He said she had just lived off him for two years and he couldn’t get rid of her, When P saw the attraction between T and myself, (which T was certainly playing up) she cried aloud and fled the party in tears. I told T if he was involved with her and playing her along I would give him hell myself. He assured me no, it was all in her mind and he was free. I then interpreted her behavior as manipulative and pushed it aside. But so shall it start, so shall it end.

The relationship progressed along from mid-September 2000 until mid December. I complained to M that I had the feeling T didn’t seem to need me around when his son, or any other friend was there. He would ignore me in front of company, not even saying goodbye to me, that sort of thing. I realize now how good my intuition is and I should listen to it more. Just before Christmas T told me he loved me and I reciprocated. Up to this point I had noticed other behaviors that I should not have ignored – highly misogynistic jokes with the guys in front of women, improvised songs when I played my guitar that were like schizo word salad songs, again filled with ugly, cruel references to women and torture. I was in love and blindly ignored these signs. It was only 3 weeks after declarations of love that it started. I saw his angry, unreasonable side the first week of January 2001.

I had started a new job that week after 6 months of unemployment, and on the Friday went to my friend M’s to have a celebratory drink. T called me there and I went up to his house to have dinner, about 8:00. When I got there he was in a very foul mood. I pressed him and he blew up. Why wasn’t I up there doing his dishes for him? He raged on and on. I tried to reason with him - I don’t live here, I have my own house to keep up, etc.’ It made no difference. I left miserable and confused, and wondering if I really was not being very supportive. From then on he brutalized me every time I spent time with M. M enjoys a drink or two when she has company, but we are true friends and our relationship is not based on alcohol. He tried to keep me from seeing her, I think because he knew she was supportive of me. The fighting over me seeing her was relentless. He knew he couldn’t reasonably tell me not to see my friend, so he started accusing me of drinking too much, something not so socially acceptable. I realize now that his criticism was based more on control than on any problem I have with social drinking.

I know this sounds like I’m trying to justify something but I want to assure you I am a social drinker. I feel that my character has been somewhat maligned with T running around telling everyone he knows (and I’m sure yourself as well) that I am some kind of drunk. I never want it to get out of control. My father killed himself with the stuff. When I have a few, my personality does not change and I’ve told my friends to let me know if it ever does. I hold down and cope with a very stressful job in Advertising, and own my own home, which is the toast of the neighborhood for being well maintained. T on the other hand should never drink. He turns into a monster. He becomes crazed like my father did in the last throes of his alcoholic life. Thankfully, he does avoid alcohol most of the time, but he probably never leveled with you that he smokes dope every morning, noon and night. He never has a moment of clear thinking. He smokes it, buys it and sells it right in front of his 15 year- old son. Rumours have circulated around the neighbourhood that the son has been trying to get the other kids to try it but T won’t listen and doesn’t care.

Shortly after Christmas, I learned another thing about T. Don’t tell him what will hurt you, because he will use it to his advantage every time. P’s brother Ty is another taker like his sister P, and T’s good buddy. (It seems the only friends T has other than Mand B are takers.) It was Ty’s intention to move in with T, rent free, and the good old boys could have a good old time. This terrified me, because when Ty was around I got the big round of ignore. T went to pick up Ty at the airport on a Tuesday night in January. I didn’t hear from him until Friday. (We usually saw each other every day.) On the Friday I wanted him to come and be with me at my house. After all, the man was going to be his roommate. He wasn’t going anywhere. T came down and was extremely put out. I tried to tell him my fears, how he always disappears on me with Ty, and what did he do? Of course, he blew his cork, walked out on me and I didn’t hear from him for another 3 days. I was in agony. But I later saw this cycle again, anything I was unhappy about, if I dared mention it, it was used against me. I also started seeing a pattern of fights being picked with me on Friday nights. I think to avoid closeness on the weekends. I started to feel that I was just a Monday to Thursday convenience. I tried to talk to him about it. Things got worse. Now I realize how right I was. When T started seeing you, which is a good thing and I never complained. I then became a Monday to Wednesday convenience. Whenever I mentioned this, I was told there was nothing we couldn’t do from Monday to Wednesday that we could do on the weekends!

In order to get a grip, I decided not to rely on him for the weekends and started making plans of my own, but that always backfired. I was punished every time. He accused me of having an affair with a young man who had come to join in on one of my jam parties, and dumped me for a week. I was told I must ask permission to ride my horse (something I’ve been doing on Saturdays for 4 years.) I was berated for not calling him when he was out on a Saturday and I made spontaneous plans with a girlfriend. I’d argue, who am I supposed to call, you’re not there! Ridiculous control issues.

Likewise, I know he had a conversation with you later around Thanksgiving, whereby we had made plans to go to the Royal together. I asked him if he wanted to invite his kids, too. He made excuses for his daughter not to come and predictably dropped our plans an hour before we were to leave because a buddy called and wanted to come over. I know you supported him, because he did ask and I did say, OK, but I am inclined to think that T didn’t tell you that this happened every time he had a social obligation with me and somebody else called. He did this to me a couple of times when I had planned an elegant meal. Once on a Sunday, his brother called just as T and Ty were due to my house for dinner and I was left babysitting an overcooked meal for a couple of hours. They came, ate and left. The same thing happened on his birthday last August. I invited him for a nice dinner and his close friends M and B were invited on the sly. He ran into them and they were obliged to visit with T before coming to my place but yet more friends dropped by. He eventually showed up with a whole slew of extra people (not knowing I had planned a surprise dinner party for him) about 2 hours after he was supposed to come for dinner. There I was again, playing short-order cook while he partied with his friends – drinking copious amounts of alcohol, I might add. So, I stopped including him in my dinner parties.

The hockey would be another issue he probably raised. I stopped going, not because of his ex-wife particularly, but because of the way he acted around her, and treated me. The first time I went he didn’t even warn me that she would be there. I found that very manipulative and inconsiderate, but OK. The next time, it was ‘Hey A – get me a coffee’, just plain rude, one-up behaviour designed to hurt. I got tired of being forced to stand there and listen to then reminisce about the good old days in front of me. I found it cruel. I didn’t say much, just stopped going. I’ve had friends who think this constant Saturday and Sunday night contact with his ex is a bit over the top. I don’t know, I don’t have kids, all I knew is that something in Denmark was stinking. Needless to say, as soon as I tried to live my own life all hell broke loose. I could go on and on with examples of control and manipulation, but the worse of it was his cruelty. T aims to hurt the one he supposedly loves.

I have been thinking about it further and I think that the reason I feel so compelled to write to you is that I feel T should be made aware of the pain he has caused me and the bridges he has burned in his neighbourhood. I would ask that you do not mention I wrote to you as I am afraid of his cruelty. If I were to confront him directly (as is my personal style) I have learned that I will only be humiliated further. I’m hoping that, even if I can imagine he has been presented with the truth about the impact of his actions, that perhaps I can get some closure. I must find this sense of closure as my emotional state is getting the better of me and I am in jeopardy of losing my job. I own my house and this is very hard for me.

My ex husband and I didn’t have sex for seven years but still managed to treat each other respectfully, end the relationship before pursuing others and are still very good friends. He has been a comfort to me through the difficulties I’ve had with T over the last while.

I sensed something was up before Christmas. I saw T driving through Newmarket with a woman in his car on my way home from work and when he phoned me later he lied about where he was. When I confronted him he projected onto me again, angrily saying it wasn’t worth the trouble to tell me. I decided not to make a fuss because I was so fed up with his insane jealousy and I wanted to set an example. But I asked him some questions about the woman he was driving and this is the same woman he so unceremoniously dumped me for. I think I am not too off the mark by intuiting that this new involvement was a good part of the reason for his excruciatingly cruel treatment of me in Mexico. Like a drowning rat, he had his next ship lined up. I can’t imagine, that given time, he will be no less cruel in a new relationship and face exactly the same problems. If not, I will gracefully stand corrected.

K, I really want you to hear my side of the story about Mexico. I know I didn’t behave admirably, but believe me, it was completely out of character. I felt like a trapped animal, or a butterfly being skewered and I lashed out and scratched his back. My first mistake was to organize and plan the booking. I know realize that I was setting myself up for failure because I took control. I would have to pay.

On the plane we sat next to a lovely woman, C, and her boyfriend Te, who were booked at the same hotel. They played a critical part in all this unhappiness. On the plane T started drinking and became a bit of an ass, but he was pretty patient while we waited 2 hours to clear Mexican customs. We drove down the coast to our hotel in Akumal and he was starting to heat up. When we got to our booked hotel to find that all four of us were not registered it began. We were shuttled off to a sister hotel, not far away. When we got there, there was confusion at the desk (there were many of us). I speak some Spanish and negotiated a great room for our trouble. We were given armbands so that we could eat and drink and relax by the beach.

T refused to leave the bags and I went to the beach alone, disappointed and miserable. I sat with Christine and Te. Finally T joined us and complained constantly and loudly. The rest of us were relaxing and making the best of it. I went to get our room key and the room was gorgeous. I returned to T to tell him to check out the room but he wasn’t impressed. The fact of the matter is that the replacement hotel was probably better suited to him than the first, there was far more activity at the second hotel and he can’t sit still. (When I first met T, I thought he may be ADHD, I have already experienced that horror.) So, anyway he wouldn’t leave the beach now to check out the room with me so I told him I was going for a nap before dinner. His response was ‘I’m going to the bar SEE YA’, in a nasty tone of voice. I went for my nap and no T.

I decided I would have a bath and go for dinner alone if he didn’t show up. He did show up, drunk and moody again and fell asleep. I was so fed up with him I went out for dinner alone anyway and left him there. I was very unhappy about being alone for dinner the first day there. It was not my idea of a romantic holiday. I met C & Te in the restaurant, we ate and then went for a walk, just for an hour or so. Tof had some smoke and I knew T was probably missing it, as he is a self-professed addict, so I invited them to our room hoping it would cheer T up. I was so humiliated. He was rude and angry at all of us and told me I had better book him his own room tomorrow. (I replied that HE could book his own room.) C and Te left thoroughly shocked and told me later that they were worried for my safety.

We fell asleep unhappily and during the next day at the beach T was cool to me but kept it contained because we were with our new friends. The minute they left us in the evening he started again, blaming me for the booking mishap, the cost of the holiday, just everything, starting it all over again, and then said, “I’m going to the bar – SEE YA!” in that cruel way he has. I couldn’t stand it. We caused a scene in the courtyard, T blaming me, and me yelling, “You take it with you!”. In tears I went to the bar again by myself. He went to a different bar. When we met in the room again, he was so cruel I started crying again. I told him to go get his own room and he told me if we wanted to be friends when we got out of there I should just be quiet.

My heart was breaking. Why would he go to Mexico with me and treat me like that? It was Christmas Eve. I was alone in a foreign country away from my friends. I tried to pull the mattress off the bed and sleep on the floor, when he wouldn’t let me do that I scratched his back. I cried almost all night and into the morning. (This is extremely painful for me to recount, I’m almost crying again and I’m not a crier.) In the morning, now about 10 am. T put his arm around me (the only kind gesture in 2 days)_and I faced him to kiss him. We were headed toward making love, but T ejaculated prematurely with absolutely no physical contact with me. At the time I thought he was just to happy to make up – but know I realize it was because he had enjoyed hurting me, really got off on it. He has the capability of being unspeakably cruel.

Apparently within the first few days Tof had a chat with him and told him to smarten up and quit ruining my holiday. We made up for Christmas day but it all continued after that. He was moody and unreasonable when we took a day trip to Tulum, not allowing C and I to spend 10 minutes in a shop. The next night I took him out for dinner and that was not satisfactory to his highness because we had enjoyed a good meal there the night before. I asked him why he didn’t say he didn’t want to eat there before we ordered, but I think it wouldn’t have made any difference where we ate. He did not want to be there with me, and that was all there was to it. I came home totally heartbroken.

I can tell you ten more tales for every one I have told you so far, but in a nutshell, when we got home it was just more of the same treatment, cold, indifferent, controlling. My last words to him were on the last Wednesday evening of January. He said he might come over to see me, I said if he was coming for certain, I’d be there, if not I was going to visit M. He said go visit M. My last words were, ‘well T, when you have time for me give me a call.’ He said OK and hung up. I had called him every day that week except the Monday so I waited. No call Thurs, Fri, Sat. Sunday I went to a show with a girlfriend and when I got home M told me he had been over there to tell them that he had left me a note.

I was stunned and when I got home, yep, a short note, friendly tone, can’t see you anymore, affecting my emotional stability, best of friends, blah, blah and a box with all my things from his house in it. I got to thinking over the next couple of days how cowardly and insensitive that was and left him a voice mail message to that effect. The following Friday he had his new girlfriend and her son over at his house for the weekend, flaunting her to the neighbours. I must say, that is the cruelest treatment I have ever received from a man. Now I have this in my face, I have to pass his house every time I go out, and it is making it very difficult for me to deal with.

You see K, I’m the kind of person who would be kind under the circumstances and be discreet for a few months until every body got stable again. I guess I shouldn’t expect consideration from such an inconsiderate man, but this is the worse relationship I have ever tried to have. I am searching my soul for my part in it. T is similar to my father, a cold, emotionally twisted, angry man. I believe T is MY imago partner, but I was HIS victim.

I will do my best not to do this again. If I had kept firmer boundaries at the beginning, the relationship wouldn’t have lasted and it would have been for the better. I need a relationship between equals. T can only cope if he is in total control. I tried to operate in healthy ways, but he wouldn’t let me without threatening the relationship. I guess it was inevitable.

Dr. Irene - I have since wondered if T could be borderline. I'd love to know what you think.

Lem

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Wednesday, April 17, 2002

Tells you that certain people wouldn't even talk to you if you didn't know that person.

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Thursday, April 25, 2002

Says he is with other women, then later says that he was 'really' with a relation. ( I think he WAS with the relation but he just liked to punish me for being assertive by making me feel insecure)

I arrange to stay at his place, it is in my diary. He tells me that I can't stay that if I had got his email he would not even be giving me 'this' much of a welcome (he opened the door) and when I leave the next morning at his behest he tells me that 'I don't know when I will see you again' (he is going overseas for years). Then, when I end up involved with someone else who helps me move (for his own purposes), I am treated as though I have been unfaithful and 'forgiven but not forgotten'. This is after I asked for him to come and help but he was too busy helping relations (again).

Tells me that if I am concerned with my reputation that is my fault for being involved (overnight) with someone else even though he is MARRIED to someone else, wears their ring and has no outward intention of divorcing - not to mention that I originally gave him the option of helping. (It was quite urgent)

I expect him to be divorced at the first opportunity (considering that this is what fits with my expectations of his integrity)... I wonder why he is not... He says he is not going to be 'forced'... I respond that I never realised it would come up as an issue because I thought too much of him to expect otherwise.

Tells me that he is going to spend a week off work in another country with someone originally (and emphatically)described to me as an old work friend when he never has time to spend time with me, has only taken me out once and spent all his other holidays with his wife and children.

Tells me that said friend is going to give him assistance (while they stay together for a week) with his transition to an overseas appointment at least three times... Tells me that said friend is flying over to take him out to dinner... Is enraged that I don't TRUST him implicitly and my punishment is to be rejected as a potential partner.

Tells me that he has some overseas job offers. Tells me the next morning that he is going to take an overseas appointment. Walks away and starts using the computer when I am upset enough at this statment to use a swear word (at the situation).

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Friday, May 03, 2002

Refers to his Family - of - origin as "his family". Despite the fact that you have children together. Makes jokes about your family in public. Both behind your back and in front of you.

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Sunday, May 05, 2002

Dr. Irene,

I have nothing to add to your list of Covert Abuse examples...in reading through it, I practically inflicted whiplash on myself as I nodded my head up and down, in agreement and recognition of all of the examples that you provide.

I am currently, working through the after effects of an abusive relationship...primarily verbal and emotional abuse.

In your last paragraph, you ask, what you would do if the tables were turned, would you go out of your way to reassure, explain, respect, etc, etc. The answer is yes, as I'm sure it is for most "victims".

It's odd how most victims continuously search for ways or avenues to right the situation. The way that we assume, we can fix the problems for, after all, it is our fault (as the verbal abuser constantly reminds us)...I did this for well over a year and each and every time, I tried to talk heart-to-heart, it only made matters worse. It was during these times, that the name calling started, being described as "pathetic" and "moaning"...eventually, what happened within myself was silence, I felt as if my feelings were certainly not acknowledged nor embraced and no matter what I wanted to say, it had no place in my partners life...it did not matter what my feelings were, what mattered more, was the way in which my actions and my words, made my partner feel. It was always about my partner, never about me.

Over time, indeed, one's self esteem and self worth does suffer. Part of the illness that I felt I've now taken on, is the guilt and the responsibility of making matters worse by wanting to talk about them. Rationally, I know this is ridiculous but there is a part of me that still is looking for acceptance by my partner...not so much that my partner will wake up and say oh my God, what a jerk I've been, but to understand, that my actions are based on my partners words, actions and manipulation.

Bottom line, I can no longer allow that to happen for the cycle will never end. I am the one, that must change my reactions, not to get along, but rather to perserve my self...I can no longer look to this person for validation or even compassion.

It's sad for in the beginning of our relationship, I felt as if I had found my soul-mate, now of course, I recognize that what I had done, was in actuality, sell my soul.

This is a wonderful site and I'm so very thankful for having found it. Thank you for all of this wonderful information, it is a wonderful supplement to regular therapy (which I am involved in).

Thank you again.

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Wednesday, May 08, 2002

More covert abuse:

--Make changes to plans both of you previously agreed upon, and does NOT tell you. You think you understood what was said, then now you think you're going crazy. In my case, I told him that he has to pay for my computer book since I'm in a budget. He nods yes. But when time comes to collect, he says it is my gift to him. Adding to this : "Remember that I paid for your airplane ticket <but he really bought the ticket because he owed me money on something else>.

Another scenario: We both agreed to return home early because I have a very early flight. Had to be at the airport at 530 am. Driving home, he says we are picking up his friend and the friend's girlfriend. We're having dinner with them. I told him I thought we're going home. He said, they're waiting for us. We ate out and finished dinner around 10 pm. So upon dropping his friends home and saying goodbye to them, so I thought, he invites himself to his friend's house for tea without telling me. Tea time lasted for another hour. I still had to pack my luggage when we got home, and map my directions to the airport. HE WENT TO BED WITHOUT HELPING ME PACK OR GET ME A MAP. I only slept for 3.5 hours. I felt so frustrated and used by this man.

--Telling you that you have so little to offer. He said " You're not a financial asset to me." " You are sexually inexperience." Who does he think he is? I told him in my last phone call with him, "I learned from this relationship that looks and success is not everything; substance and character are lacking on your part." I felt so mistreated by this man.

--Criticizing you for your behaviour in public. You talk too loud, you eat your food noisily, don't fold your arms, etc. I felt like I was still in kindergarten.

--Telling you that he's not seeing other people. But with a little snooping in his house, you know that he's corresponding with other women like in the internet, writing and calling them. I found out mine has subscriptions to mail-order brides online and offline.

--Having the answering machine's volume at LOWEST so when a call comes, you would NOT hear the woman's voice talking.

Good riddance of him. Such a warped personality!! Ella

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Wednesday, May 08, 2002

-Conveniently "forget" to wear wedding ring (interesting that this only happens when he's angry). -Come home late without calling and then say, "I knew you'd make a big deal out of this," or "you're too insecure," or even better, "I have every right to spend time with my friends." Wow, I'm so selfish. -Complain about my Saturday work hours interfering with his time with me (sits around the house all day while I'm gone), so I practically do back handsprings at work to get my schedule changed. Then he gets angry with me for "automatically expecting" him to spend time with me on Saturdays. Denies that he cared I ever worked Saturdays. -Hide my book, change the position of my bookmark, hide my sandwich, move my keys, deny, deny, deny and I think I'm losing my mind. If I catch him in the act, he just laughs and I do to. -bump me, step on my foot, trip me, oops, oops, wups -Listen attentively while I talk about my day, then say, "Gee, that is sooo interesting." Gosh, I must be so boring. -Say, "I'm really hungry for some cottage cheese. I don't know why I'm thinking of cottage cheese." This was in reference to my cellulite problem. Of course, he denies it. -Ignore me, refuse to look at me or talk to me or respond to any questions. Sits in a chair and watches television in the dark. Very strong sense that he's not there. Just shrugs if I ask what's wrong. -Eye-rolls and "Here come the tears," when I finally reach a breaking point. -If I try to initiate sex, "Huh-uh. I don't think so," or "God! We just did it the other day!" If he complies, he just lies there and doesn't participate. -If he initiates sex (and I never, ever refuse), afterward he says, "That ought to hold you for a while," or "I noticed how white you are." Immediately afterward pulls away and puts on clothes. -Refuse to choose a restaurant, movie, activity for the day, but will go sullenly with my choice and then complain later. If I try to make him choose, I must deal with eye-rolls and statements like, "You are too indecisive," or "Why can't you make decisions?" -Make fun of friends and family members and is jealous of my time with them. As I slowly stop spending as much time with them in order to be with him/keep him happy, he says he feels oppressed by my inability to make friends/keep friends. Why does he have to be everything for me? -The harder I try to look good and get noticed, the less chance of a compliment. -After spending all day cleaning and cooking, he walks in to find a clean house, candles everywhere and me wearing the sexiest, hottest, most revealing bedroom outfit for Valentines Day that I searched high and low for and he says, "Thanks for straightening up." Am I invisible? There's nothing left of me. -Very serious and concerned expression as he says, "We both know that the problem is you're too sensitive about everything." Oh, if only I could learn to be more like other people and not care if he tells jokes about my pale skin and big butt (I'm a size 6)!

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Wednesday, May 15, 2002

takes interest only in himself and things that he wants to do with the guys, runs you into the ground by signed up children for multiple activties and then tells you to take more time to take care of yourself, never compliments you, doesn't want to discuss anything because he is "tired"

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Monday, May 20, 2002

I said that I liked the new shirt he had on and he said, yes, that he liked it too. Then I said, "Didn't I buy that for you?" He said, "Yes, but I am going to wear it anyway."

When going on a rare family outing, he will not join in the conversation, when asked why he is so quite, he will say that he has nothing to say.

At social events, if I start to speak, he will either walk away, or begin a seperate conversation.

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Thursday, May 30, 2002

Abuse isn't only in spousal relationships. How about holistic "guru" types who are out there selling esoteric, intangible soul stuff and then screwing their clients??? My charming, seemingly super-intelligent, charismatic naturopath (ND), at my first visit, declared he was going to change my whole being, and indeed, he did - I nearly died. My ND sure fits the narcissist\sociopath characteristic lists I've read. I will never, ever wonder how people can be so mislead and be so stupid when I hear about cults, because I nearly died under this guy's care, nearly left my husband, nearly dropped acid and took MDMA as a spiritual ceremony to get in touch with my source and to release all my stuffed emotions. I even started working for this person. When I wrote it all down, I asked how could I be so stupid. After reflection, I realize we had a honeymoon period (the hook)where I still think he could have done great things had it not been an act. He must have been trying to figure out how far he could go with me before he started working with his agenda. Some examples of covert abuse, besides missing appointments, not returning phone calls as promised, and dismissing issues and symptoms...

He stated: 1. I need to let go of control and trust him. When I did, by describing a difficult childhood and an 8-month abusive relationship with a boyfriend, he said I was complaining and being a "victim of life." 2. When I said the 5-HTP he prescribed took my appetite away and made me more depressed, he said he never heard of that happening, but that if I didn't want to get well, nothing was going to help me. That's why people have side effects from pills. (I got down to about 500 calories a day intake). 3. There is no self (from Buddhist concept of five aggregates), so my problems are "stories I've made up about events". This added confusion to the mix and I didn't even know what to ask. After taking an intro to Eastern Philosophy, I still can't wrap my brain around this idea. 4. Learn how to be present(which I worked hard at). But then he became frustrated when I was still having my original physical problems, because emotions were "still stuck inside" - a manifestation of not being present. So, he refused to listen to my physical complaints and I felt bad for still being sick and kept my complaints to myself. It MUST be me because he's so smart. 5. The following week, I opened up, only to get, "talking is not going to get rid of the problem. People spend years in therapy talking but there is no emotional release." (I should just shut up.) 6. I should try hypnosis, but he said there was no way I would go under, "because I don't trust." (I'm really, really awful) 7. People can only hope to have the experience you're having. I decontextualized (what a subsequent therapist told me had really happened) and he was happy. He sat with me while I had whatever it was - a breakdown? I felt like I had lost any notion of me in my life. I threw out yearbooks, all my photo albums, stayed away from family, pushed away my husband, nearly announced that I was a different person who didn't need or want to be related in any way to any of my friends and relatives. He asked me to work with him setting up lectures and seminars, and I was honored. Thought I would feel better after this but then I took a dive, which he didn't have time to listen to and wanted to know how I expected HIM to be able to work with me the way I am. Mood swings was the other thing I went to see him for - my social\work\married life was suffering from these ups and downs. (My head told me