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Devil's Advocate Comments

Comments for Devil's Advocate 

Courtesy of Dr. Irene Matiatos, Copyrightę 1999. The material on this website may be distributed freely for non-commercial or educational purposes provided that author credit is given. For commercial distribution, please contact the author at Doc@drirene.com.

 

 

B1: Submit
Date: Tuesday, December 21, 1999

S1

OK, I think I get it. The way the victim thinks is not the only way to think. If Tex, who had a horrible marriage, married to a horrible woman, were to think differently, he does not have to feel as badly as he has felt. I think I get it. I am a victim too. But I'm not really sure how to apply this to my life. I have to think about this. Tex, God Bless You and thank you for your wonderful story. I'd been waiting a long time for the ending. Dr. Irene, God Bless you. Thank you for this wonderful site that has helped so much. I guess I have many things to think about. Happy New Year everybody. MC

B1: Submit
Date: Wednesday, December 22, 1999

S1

Tex, (Are you from Texas?) Dr. Irene really beat you up, but you needed that. You have to accept Kali for what she is, you don't have to agree with it, like it or acknowledge it. Always remember, you can not change who she is, you can only recognize it and go on. You feed her illness when you let her bother you. If it didn't hurt you she would have no reason to do it. Decide what is important to you and everything else is just fuzz. I take anti-depressants, and it has made my emotions take the back seat, while my logic is driving the car. It sounds like you know the right thing to do, but your emotions are running you right now. I totally relate to what your going through, you know-been there done that, got the t-shirt. You are on the road to a better you and you will get there. Merry Christmas - luvya - Tarri T.

B1: Submit
Date: Wednesday, December 22, 1999

S1

Dear Dr. Irene....I find myself being grateful to you, a perfect stranger, for what you are doing in this site. I find myself being grateful to the people who interact with you as you use their all to human story to point out a better, healthy way of "doing it" (living) and I appreciate learning that my unique (?) trials and tribulations are really about just "growing up" ( and I am very old and by the grace of God still growing) And I think I understand that sometimes those who abuse us (unknowingly with our consent) are indeed those who have come into our life to teach us the most valuable lessons we have to learn about ourselves. There nothing better than the feeling that confronting our own demons (weakness, or just plain stupidity) and WALKING AWAY FROM THEM GIVES ONESELF. IT'S LIKE SAYING OKAY I GET IT I have met the enemy and it is me...and I choose not to do this to me anymore. It's about choosing God over ego, love over fear......it's so simple and yet the hardest thing one has to learn in life. I keep dropping into your site to remind myself of my commitment to myself to honor my spirit in my life ...to keep reminding myself that I get it and how grateful I am to those individual who use their talents and understanding to help others turn on their own light bulb when darkness enters their life.

B1: Submit
Date: Wednesday, December 22, 1999

S1

Great!!..just had a chance to read your responses Dr. I. Very right on. But I do see how hard it is and will be for you Tex. Unless "blanket disregard for her" will hurt you Tex...why not. Obviously she has had blanket disregard for you for YEARS! I know I teach my kids that turn about is not fair play...but why should hurting all the time because of someone else's craziness be considered fair play. It's not blanket disregard... just protectiveness. Practice it Tex...you need to be teaching it by example to your son.

B1: Submit
Date: Thursday, December 23, 1999

S1

TEX, take it from a person who has been there, and done that,

If you are searching for the type of closure that requires her to ask for forgiveness and change her craziness then my friend it is a battle already lost! Because that would require something abusers are not capable of doing - feeling!

As you said "there are some fights not worth fighting, much less engaging in"

God bless you with the strength and the will.

From

A survivor

B1: Submit
Date: Friday, December 24, 1999

S1

Merry Christmas Tex....let it be so.... You MUST read "Tuesdays with Morrie... You must...life truly is so much more than what we do before we become "aware" take heart.

B1: Submit
Date: Sunday, December 26, 1999

S1

Dear Tex, I really feel for you. I am in a very same type of space. When I read Dr. Irene's comments, I was mad at her! Why was it your fault that Kali is the way she is??? After I thought about it, I understood. You can't change Kali but you can change yourself. Now I have to look at my marriage this way. Ouch.

B1: Submit
Date: Sunday, January 02, 2000

S1

Reading Tex's story and Dr Irene's comments was a real eye-opening experience for me. So many things rang true for me. I still think like the victim, still trying to "make him pay" for his treatment. Since we are no longer together how he acts and what he thinks towards or about me, really should be moot point. I have continued to buy into this behaviour simply because it was easier for me to be the victim, to rant, scream and be done wrong to then to walk away. I didn't realize how much I have been bringing this world of hurt on myself simply because it was the easiest thing to do. I am going to work HARD on this aspect of myself so I can be healthy for myself, my children and any future significant other I may have in the future. Thank You for the words that I really needed to hear.

Paula

B1: Submit
Date: Saturday, January 08, 2000

S1

Tex, you need to see this as a business relationship as this is all it has ever been to her. She delights in manipulating you, making you doubt yourself and making you suffer. This feeds her sense of power and increases her sense of competency, being in control and being able to influence the environment to get her needs met. As a child she learnt to not emotionally connect but to misrepresent her behaviour to manipulate a parent. She uses the same strategy with you. Don't take it personally or seriously. I believe that you need to emotionally withdraw and be clinical in your dealings with her. Set your boundaries. Remember that you are responsible for your behaviour, you cannot be responsible for hers. If she wants to act like a bull in a china shop then she is responsible for the repairs. You must separate yourself from her and see her as just another person in the street. Her behaviour is very predictable, predict it, accept that that is how she will be then dismiss her comments and plan your life. Overall be totally businesslike. Do not treat her as someone who is able to connect with anyone else's well-being or who wants to. Her goal is to present well socially and you have been a mantle piece toy that has been a good conversation piece. Remember like Mr. Magoo the problem is in you. MAC Australia p.s. I thought Dr Irene was a little easy on you.

B1: Submit
Date: Tuesday, May 23, 2000

S1

5/23/00 Tex, OK, six years in AA,Al-anon, ACA, ISA and whatever else I need. Why does this sound like my story? A gift from a great female friend in AA who was my Eskimo back in 1990. "Honey, you won't find oranges in a hardware store!"

That is enough...

Tim B.

B1: Submit
Date: Tuesday, May 23, 2000

S1

5/23/00 Tex, OK, six years in AA,Al-anon, ACA, ISA and whatever else I need. Why does this sound like my story? A gift from a great female friend in AA who was my Eskimo back in 1990. "Honey, you won't find oranges in a hardware store!"

That is enough...

Tim B.

B1: Submit
Date: Wednesday, December 06, 2000

S1

Tex -- It appears that this was written over a year ago, but I have just now found it, so I hope this reply still makes sense.

Your former wife sounds a lot like my husband: twisting what I say to make me look like an idiot, getting angry if I don't share his opinion about current political topics, making grand pronouncements about how i should do things, then doing himself then doing himself whatever he wants, even if it was something he told me not to do.

Etc. Etc.

One reason I stayed was because the really bad episodes were fairly far apart, and he was cheerful and easy-going in between (usually). Mush more of Jeckyll- and-Hyde than Kali is or was.

We had a confrontation a few years ago in which I admitted that I was no longer in love with him because of his verbally abusive behavior. To make a long story short, some of the worst of it has stopped, or been modified, and he has had a little therapy. However, the basic spots on the leopard have not changed, and in any case what's dead is dead.

The other reason I did not leave is because we had two absolutely wonderful children. ALthough he left something to be desired as a husband, he was usually a very good father, and the four of us functioned well as a family. On balance, I truly felt that the kids would be much better off if we stayed together than if we split up. I paid a price for that, personally, but I did it with my eyes open and it was a price I was willing to pay. I still think (usually) that I did the right thing.

Now my daughter is 19 and my son is 15, and will graduate from H.S. in 2 1/2 years. I think it is very unlikely I will stay with my husband past that point.

Another thing, Tex - I really applaud you for talking about this. THere is the gender thing, and it may be more difficult for a man to admit having been abused by a woman. But what you say about principle is absolutely right. What is wrong behavior for one is equally wrong for the other, especially if one claims to be a feminist, which I always thought had a lot to do with refraining from gender stereotypes (any kind of gender stereotypes) so that people coulr be real individuals.

I have rambled on long enough. I wanted to let you know that I was glad I read this. It was very helpful to me, knowing that someone else has had a similar experience.

BTW, how is your son doing?

Eggplant

B1: Submit
Date: Tuesday, January 02, 2001

S1

Eggplant: Thanks for your kind comments. Overall, my son is doing fairly well. I think he does better with me, than with Kali. I have observed some of her behavior toward him with resembles very closely her treatment of me, and I have also seen him exhibiting some of her traits. He's basically a loving kid, and I do my best to be stable, consistent, and available for him. For instance, I schedule my other life choices (recreation, education, whatever) around my time with him. I don't always succeed, but he seems happy. Everyone has to make their own choice as to whether or not to stay with an abusive partner. I personally left for myself, first, and also for my son: I was so furious at Kali's treatment that I was short-tempered with my son. Now that doesn't happen nearly as often. Good luck in your journey. Tex

B1: Submit
Date: Wednesday, April 11, 2001

S1

I agree with your observations, but would offer one approach to Tex. It is obvious that Kali is experiancing some difficulties also. Maybe he should try feeling sorry for her. She obviously has some kind of cognitive disfunction. If he could learn to appriciate that, he might be better able to let it go.

B1: Submit
Date: Monday, June 11, 2001

S1

Wow, this is GREAT STUFF. I feel constantly like I am groping in the dark, and this section was like finding a candle,a step, a foundation. Now I just need a match!

What si amazing is how I didn't even notice Tex's self hatred and how he put himself down, until you pointed it out. And just the sense of SPACE I get from the Dr. point of view. How it really is a box, blinders.

B1: Submit
Date: Saturday, August 25, 2001

S1

I just want to say that Tex sounds like such a great guy to me. I am divorced from an abuser that played games with me as well, and played unfairly. There were all levels of abuse, including physical. I never understood why he wouldn't play fair, and why he was so selfish, self-centered, and always had to "win". How has he won when he has destroyed our marriage and family???? It is encouraging to me to hear from a man who wants the same things that I want: honesty, respect, a sense of fair play, integrity. Thanks for the encouragement!!!! Patti

B1: Submit
Date: Friday, October 12, 2001

S1

Dr. Irene's comments remind me to focus on what I can do, not on wishing she would act differently. You already know my stories. I think from time to time of keeping a journal of them, but resist. It would just be a way to amass evidence of how I was right and she was wrong. Can't win that way. As Tex says, "There are some fights and games not worth winning, much less engaging in." Since an absurd incident this past Labor Day, I have been more aware of her near constant overt and covert manipulation and abuse. When I can disengage emotionally, much of her behavior becomes amusing in its pettiness and absurdity. Thanks for your story, Tex. And thanks to Dr. Irene for your helpful comments.

B1: Submit
Date: Friday, October 26, 2001

S1

Viewing abuse between parents as a young girl, I know I picked up abusive tendicies. I guess I learned how to hate men and also to hate being a woman. I was in a relationship with a man; I would say that we were both 'Kalies'. Needless to say, I lost myself. The relationship led to physical abuse-coming from both sides. Even presently, I am struggling with my self-worth, learning to appreciate myself, being objective, facing my 'demons', and practicing effective communication. I survive with patience and with God. Amen!

B1: Submit
Date: Friday, May 17, 2002

S1

let me get this straight this poor guy tex is a victim of the lousiest of all women whose only motive lay in three things, in what she thought, said and did and those are : BITCH , BITCH and BITCH. and this guy Tex, man o man, u are a living symbolof Jesus's idea of the forgiving man. . u gave up ur house, ur joy and everything for the sake of ur son. Any other person would have ...i don't know it distresses me even to think of it. lets come to ur son. When he is aged enough get him away from the bitch , forever and remember

".....and no one knows who the Son son is except the Father and no one knows who the Father is except the Son, and the one to whom the Son will to reveal him"

Luke 10:22 ( New Testament)

urs truly Kumar (csk316@yahoo.com)

B1: Submit
Date: Wednesday, July 24, 2002

S1

Excerpt: You let her use you. Take your power. That's the neat part: you will be in control here as soon as you figure out where your "on" switch is! & Excerpt: You don't need to forgive her as much as you need to develop the skills to prevent her, and people like her, from victimizing you. I feel some example "how-to's" could have been developed here. You kinda left Tex hanging/twisting in the wind/wondering . . . and not only Tex! :-))

B1: Submit
Date: Tuesday, October 29, 2002

S1

"The truth: You did not know how to negotiate his mom's ways." I found these words extremely profound and accuratate for my life. Had someone only told me 12 years ago, 11 years into our marriage or realized it myself, I would have been much better equiped to straighten things out. I was blind to the imbalance of my marriage. She did not want to be the way she was. She could not help herself and I ignored her inappropriate behavior because I did not know any better way to deal with it. 15 years ago I stopped fighting. Most of the time I was in denial that what she was doing was wrong. Eventually I was distroyed by the 24-7 abuse and only seriously started to examine the dynamics of the relation ship from my final greatly weakened financial and emotional state. Divorced a couple days now, I am no longer being blackmailed by my vain hope of keeping our family of 7 kids together. I look forward to learning to hold her at arm's length and standing my ground. Thanks to this article, I will now have the satisfaction of telling my kids the truth of why things fell apart: I had neither the stomach nor the skills to mount a domestic campaign of manipulation, deciet,verbal abuse or intimidation to hold off her campaign. I had no stomach or ability to live in a home that had a higher level of conflict than the competitive business world I worked in for 20 years. I was more than willing to struggle with her to make a life for our family but only managed to fight a defensive war with her at home. My hands / mind are now free to act to forstall her high handed ways, having already lost what I feared so greatly I would loose. Had Tex been trained as a trial lawyer, he would have been more prepared to hold his own at home. But it is a sad reality that requires such horsepower to hammer out equitable deals at home. It is a difficult task to manage a person animated with fear / guilt / hatred with out exploiting those emotions. Playing to a good side that is not there proved futile. I went through my battle with the dubious shield of good intensions and a sword of honesty blunted by cognative skills made weak by an attitude of futility. I did not have a chance. Hence ever willing to appease to come to a quick resolution to stop the blood letting as soon as possible. I did not even know that I should have mounted a vigerous campaign to get to th ebottom of her chronic discontent. Unbeknown to me the roots of her anger came from a nd were shared secretely with her 9 younger sisters and brothers, carefully hidden from me. Only after 22 years of marriage did I start to realize the domestic carnage left in the wake of her siblings 22 marriages ( and still counting) did I realize that there was a family patern of abuse or receptiveness to it. I had been the solitary hold out willing or able to endure for so many years. I have one question. What is the indicated course of action to speed the healing of an abuse "victim"?

B1: Submit
Date: Tuesday, January 28, 2003

S1

I had the same reactions you did Irene. You just put it into words. And he's a great bloke working on the hardest thing in life; helping yourself to grow up in the best way you can (it's harder than parenting a real child, in my experience, but that's good practice!) Chris Druce

B1: Submit
Date: Wednesday, March 05, 2003

S1

Greetz and thanks to this website! I've only quickly read thru Tex's story but have recognized many of the "problems" that applies to both myself and my "co-habitant" wife of 5 years. My "loving" feelings have severely been diminishing in this relationship and I have blamed myself for allowing it to continue the way it has been going for so long. We are both very stubborn and have several contrasting views as to how a "relationship" is "supposed?" to go. Tex's story appears to be the closest thing that I could find on the web today, that I could relate to and hopefully inspire me towards a more "positive" resolution. Currently, I DO consider myself to be extremely volitile and violent when it involves verbal abuse that I feel is directed at me personally by my wife. Admittedly, this was and still is an issue since my childhood involving my parents, siblings and peers, that I managed to "regulate" up until recently. Suicide, blind-rage and now feelings of "wanting to kill" in addition to other aggressions towards my wife have brought me disturbing revelations, in spite of completing a "Anger Management Course" and realizing consequences. It was only since I've been with her that these feeling have become worse during the term. Her emotional attacks upon me, due to her worsening perimenopause and PMS symptoms have definitely made me even more miserable and defensive. I feel that I had been a good provider and lover up until now. I work very hard with at least two different jobs and mainly strive for financial stability and harmony within a relationship. But when I get "blasted" for things like forgetfulness or show lack of emotional or verbal support (to her satisfaction), any loving feelings that I had managed to salvage since the last spat, quickly disappears and is again replaced by anger and resentment followed shortly by self-destructiveness. Instead of gaining valuable knowledge to cope or adapt, I've grown less tolerant since going into my forties. Ironically, a client once told me; "...familiarity breeds contempt..." I4NI

B1: Submit
Date: Thursday, March 06, 2003

S1

Yes, I noticed myself getting pulled into really feeling sorry for the guy before I read the second version with your comments. Yes it is sad, but without continuing to move forward in recovery the guy will continue to be an invitation for abuse. I love the way you give it to him because he's a great guy. Great guys respond and move through their hurts!

B1: Submit
Date: Monday, April 07, 2003

S1

Hi There, I have been reading items on your site with interest. My son is in an abusive relationship with his wife and only lately has been able to acknowledge it. They are in counselling right now and to my immense relief the counsellor saw through the wife's behaviours and started teaching my son coping/negotiating skills. When they finally had a terrific blow up I was so relieved that he was at last seeing how destructive the relationship was that I at last felt able to tell him bluntly what I had observed. My question - just how much and when should family members intervene?

B1: Submit
Date: Monday, July 07, 2003

S1

TEX,

B1: Submit
Date: Monday, July 07, 2003

S1

TEX, I AM MARRIED TO KALI'S TWIN SISTER. FOR ALMOST 20 YEARS I'VE BEEN THE ABUSER, THE BAD GUY BECAUSE I WOULDN'T TAKE HER COMMENTS LYING DOWN, AND COULD NEVER ARGUE HER INTO SUBMISSION-HER MEMORY AND FACILITY WITH WORDS ARE THAT OF A DEMON'S, AND HER MALICE JUST AS EVIL. OUR 8-YEAR OLD SON IS VERY SHARP, AND HAS (THANK GOD) MY SENSE OF HUMOR AND GOOFINESS THAT HAS KEPT ME SANE FOR MOST OF MY LIFE. SHE HATES MEN, PERHAPS HAS HAD A GOOD REASON, BUT ALWAYS ACCENTUATES THE NEGATIVE AND BAD, USES 'NEVER, ALWAYS' AND MY PET WORDS THAT I HEAR ALL THE TIME: VILE,LOATHSOME, LAZY PIG, ABUSER, ETC. WITH HER, NOT ALL MEN ARE PIGS, JUST THE ONE IN QUESTION. SHE KNOWS PHIL HARTMAN (FROM SATURDAY NIGHT LIVE)WAS FOOLING AROUND ON HIS WIFE;THAT WAS WHY SHE KILLED HIM, DESPITE SUBSEQUENT PRESS REPORTS FROM EVERYONE AROUND THEM THAT THE SOURCE WAS PROBABLY HER, NOT HIM.SHE ROLLS HER EYES AND ENGAGES IN ALL SORTS OF OVERT BODY LANGUAGE (HANDS ON HIPS, TONGUE IN CHEEK, LOOKING AT NOTHING)AND HATES ANYONE ELSE DOING THE SAME THING TO HER! SHE HAS A CHRONIC PAIN DISEASE (OR SO WE THINK) AND OF COURSE, NO ONE'S PAIN IS AS BAD AS HERS, ESPECIALLY MINE. IF I AM IN PAIN, EITHER NEW OR RECURRING, I GET A "OH, ARE YOU ALRIGHT?" AND THEN "WELL, TAKE A TYLENOL" I HAD A SCRIPT WRITTEN FOR DARVOCET, AND SHE REFUSED TO HAVE IT FILLED, SAYING: "OH YOU REALLY DON'T NEED THAT-YOU'LL BE FALLING ON YOUR ASS!" (I SECRETLY TAKE SOME OF HERS ALL THE TIME!) SO---WHAT ELSE CAN I SAY? I WISH SHE WOULD DIE-NOT BECAUSE I BELIEVE IN HELL (I DO, BUT SHE CAN'T BE TALKED TO) BUT BECAUSE AT 51, I'D LIKE SOME TIME LEFT FOR A NORMAL LIFE... TELEPHONE BILL INDIANAPOLIS

B1: Submit
Date: Monday, July 21, 2003

S1

Wow! It was as if my life was being portrayed in Tex's story.The story albeit different,the contents dealing with the abuses are very similiar. I to have stared into the face of a "Dragon" for 7 years. To add to my nightmare, my wife is an abusive alcoholic. I to have been searching for answers and have the same feelings as Tex. You've hit the nail on the head with your comments and have given me food for thought about my feelings. Thanks

B1: Submit
Date: Sunday, August 03, 2003

S1

Why is it so unreasonable to want to know why your husband cheated and what he was thinking and who you were to him at the time? Shouldn`t he present a case as to why he did it and why you should stay with him? How can anyone get over the pain of betrayal,especially if your husband was posing as a good man. After being lied to, humiliated,and betrayed for years--is there really an answer? I have been married for 38 years and there is no news that has hit me like this deceit. I never want my husband to touch me again and I am dying inside with this pain. I can`t have the years back and I can`t afford a divorce. He wins and I have to subject myself to the pain of this insanity everyday. Therapist say get over it--I would like to know how.