Comments to Response To I Abused

Comments to Response To I Abused...

Material posted here is intended for educational purposes only, and must not be considered a substitute for informed advice from your own health care provider.

Courtesy of Dr. Irene Matiatos Copyright© 2000. The material on this website may be distributed freely for non-commercial or educational purposes provided that author credit is given. For commercial distribution, please contact the author at Doc@drirene.com

B1: Submit
Date: Thursday, August 03, 2000

S1

Dear D,

Your story is very interesting. I understand how difficult it is to be unable to deal with unacceptable behaviors, but more importantly not being able to talk to to your partner about it for fear that they'll flip out or just say "to hell with you, get lost". The old "like it or lump it" theory. "take me as I am, even though I'm broken, and take responsibility for me too". It's easy to get caught- up in this...when you tend to be overly responsible. I was in a similar situation. Believe me, the further away you get from the situation, the more you'll see how sick and twisted that person is. And I know you felt badly about this, wanted her to get help, wanted to work things out and make it better. The problem is that she didn't. I'll bet that you were taking total responsibility for the problems in the relationship - especially hers! She wanted you to accept her behavior and then blame you for what she didn't want to change in herself. My boyfriend was similar (with different issues) and it's been several months since I finally found the strength to cut him off completely. It took for him to "act out" horribly while my father was dying to understand that "hey, this is the time in my life when I need support, not anger, rage, and someone cursing me! After his last raging incident, I refused to ever speak to him again and still haven't!!!! (I'm proud of this). He still has not accepted full responsibility for his behavior. He still leaves me messages saying he cares about me...but the reality is that he is still so head strong on not accepting responsibility that he risked losing me in the process and succeeded. I know if I was back with him it would be the same story all over again..."if it weren't for you, you are my problem", along with cursing me, etc. etc. YOU are on the right track! Good luck, go find someone who respects you enough to talk, listen and work with you!! You can't fix what you can't fix but you can continue to make yourself happier!

LHW

B1: Submit
Date: Thursday, August 03, 2000

S1

Dear LHW,

You put it very well. Rage. Not anger. This was the central dilemma. My girlfriend's rage at any mistake. Every mistake was treated as if it was a premeditated attack on her to inflict the most pain. I am embarrassed to say that I endured many such attacks over TV shows, walks in the city, trips. Especially trips. When we went on a trip she was especially on guard. My internal defense was to say that "well, because of her past, I have to take better care." At times, I did make mistakes of not taking care, not contributing to her feeling special. So I thought she must have a good reason.

The problem was it wasn't me. She was rageful at many things and many people. Sometimes at life itself.

The problem was that no amount of behavior changes that I did ever allowed her to bring down her defenses. Any change I made was not recognized. That made me mad inside. So not only was I raged at but I was becoming rageful.

Rage begets rage. I was no saint. I fell into her rage and sometimes raged back. This was doubly destructive: hurting her back and hurting myself. Most of that I internalized and gained 25 pounds in the process. I recently have gotten back to my original weight. In my experience, part of that rage in name calling and cursing. Even now when I hear it in public, my new reaction is to say inside, "that is not acceptable." :)

I believe that anger is healthy. Sharing moments when you don't feel special or taken care can only lead to a healthy conclusion. Nothing is buried. But talked over and worked on. But this is taking responsibility for your part in a mature relationship.

You are wise to know what would happen if you got back together. We did break up several times and got back together. You are exactly right. Every time nothing changed. Actually that is not true. Every time we got back together, she believed that the last breakup was my fault and things got worse. From her point of view, I was more and more at fault. And she was more and more justified to let loose on me.

I took a lot of responsibility, but I believed that I was not alone in that endeavor. I was. At times I felt more like a parent than a partner. Much of it was financial responsibility. But also planning responsibility, etc.

I might suggest that if you did get back together not only would you still be "the problem" but you would also be blamed for breaking up in the first place.

I never lost a parent so I can only guess at the grief and shock you must have felt, but I did lose my maternal grandmother who I was very close too. Those horrible times are for comfort and love. Good for you for rejecting that kind of awful and hurtful behavior. I agree with you that that is very telling of the kind of person he is.

The cycle finally ended when I, as you, drew the line. The last rage. It just struck me that no one deserves to live under attack and in fear. Life is too short for life to be turned into chaos.

You couldn't be more right. A partner should be a source of support and love, not rage and anger and hostility.

Peace

D Yeah!

B1: Submit
Date: Friday, August 04, 2000

S1

Dear D,

You did the right thing. A woman I worked with was very verbally abusive. I know, it's supposedly not tolerated in today's work environment.. but there are always exceptions to that rule. I couldn't stand her, I used to imagine what her poor family went through. And then one day my accident I found out.. she treated them the same way.

This woman bad mouthed everyone. It was just a matter of when it was your turn to get bashed. She loved to threaten you. And that tactic kept me hopping. Until one day I called her bluff... 'cause I was fed up. She did back down.. but you couldn't win.. 'cause she'd just threaten you the next time. Oh ..but she could be sweet as pie to her sales customers. I will never forget her...that's nasty she was. She was so self absorbed to. No one had it as bad as her...as tough as her.....what a bitter attitude and chip on her shoulder. When she made a mistake...she laughed it off.. but when you make even the smallest mistake... well of with your head.

Let me tell you something. I know you think you lost something and you did.....you lost misery. You are now so much better off than you can even imagine.

B1: Submit
Date: Friday, August 04, 2000

S1

Dear LHW,

I really appreciate what you are saying. But there are times when I recalculate and rethink the decision.

I am embarrassed to say it. You get used to someone being there. Its an unusual thought process. I got used to the pattern as bad as it was.

I sometimes think the good times were very good. Maybe I was wrong to demand my limits. But I know that isn't the case.

To be honest, a part of me has a hard time believing that I am better off now. There are ups and down. And I am sure some of it was partly believing the trash that was talked at me. A lot of disparaging comments.

It's undoing that type of damage. That's why raging is so bad.

Thanks

B1: Submit
Date: Friday, August 04, 2000

S1

My last post was directed to the both LHW and the other writer. Thanks

David

B1: Submit
Date: Friday, August 04, 2000

S1

Dear D,

It's LHW again. Your comments are fabulous, and I think you are seeing the picture for what it really is as well as being honest with your feelings. Yes, it is hard to break away. Yes, you miss the person, Yes, you doubt whether or not you've made the right choice, etc. etc. But keep asking yourself this: Can you function in a healthy, normal fashion and grow together with this person? Are you the only party who wants to do work in order to make it "work"? I loved my ex very deeply, there was an incredibly good side to the relationship, which is what brought us together to begin with. I still cry occasionally remembering how good it was sometimes. The best night we'd ever had was the night we got back together after a three month separation. Sure, it was full of passion and promises, which of course were broken once again. Not before long it was right back to square one, in fact the rage was WORSE. He blamed me more than ever. It was a horrifying, disappointing nightmare when the obscenities started flying again. I told him the moment he started using those words again the relationship was headed for disaster. He blamed me saying he "couldn't make me happy" and that was what "made him act that way". Of course, it all started to happen around the holidays. So not only did I have an awful birthday last August when he raged at me then, I also had a horrible Christmas and New Year and then my father became sick in January. It was a very unpleasant year. My birthday is tomorrow and I vowed that I WOULD NOT allow it to be like last year! It can't anyway, now that he is out of my life. I will spend it with my widowed mother and be happy! This isn't a pity party at all, I just like to share with people like you how far we can come! Back to your situation, the truth is, and I know you might agree with this, passion is PASSION, both good and bad. Passionate people make good lovers, they also can (if not balanced properly) make good ragers. Our "heavy-ocity" (I call it), makes for some really good, strong feelings. It can also bring out the worst in us if someone doesn't know how to control their anger. My point here is that "sometimes love just ain't enough" (I think that's a song?). Also, I do a lot of reading, and one book that struck me was called "Are you the one for me"? The author is Barbara DeAngelis. The reason why I liked this book is because she really teaches you how to understand not only compatibility, but also "FATAL FLAWS". This is where I really understood more about my partner and why it just wasn't working. The fatal flaws jumped right out at me. The irresponsibility, the "rageaholic" behavior, the general instability. These fatal flaws, the author suggests, are exactly what she says - fatal to the relationship unless that person is willing to get some serious help. In fact, one time he was at my apt. and the book was opened to that page and when he read it - what do you think he did? He RAGED out! I'm not trying to preach, I'm trying to help remind you that even though something can be great sometimes, if it is REALLY dysfunctional sometimes, it doesn't work. Find someone where the power is more balanced and even-keeled, and the desire to make it work is equal on both parts!! Believe it or not, those people are out there! Good luck and thanks for responding. We are here to support one another.

LHW

B1: Submit
Date: Friday, August 04, 2000

S1

It's LHW again. I re-read your second post and just wanted to make sure that you didn't think the second round of comments were from me. My responses are always signed "LHW". Someone else posted and remained anonymous...those weren't my remarks. Just want to keep my comments straight!!!!

Bye for now

B1: Submit
Date: Friday, August 04, 2000

S1

This sounds exactly like my wife. I don’t believe you can satisfy someone like this and give them the enough confidence to trust because their confidence and trust is not based on what you do but on something else that happened in their lives that they can not get past. I don’t think my wife would trust an elderly, castigated monk if she could be married to one! I found that once I reached a certain level of doing what she wanted then she just raised the standards. We often travel to ocean side resorts for vacations in the summer. It’s nearly impossible for me to sit up when I am on the beach. In crowds, restaurants and other public places I have to look down or away when another woman is near. My children’s science fares are even rough because of who is walking around and crosses my line of sight. It even affects the friends she chooses. They have to be unattractive physically, others get vehemently rejected. I have to read newspaper articles that involve women without her knowing it. The reporting in newspapers, even ones like the Wall Street Journal about the escapades of Bill and Monica and the subsequent political fallout and impeachment were cause for a lot of tense moments and actual fights about me just reading the newspaper at home. I had to resort to doing that at work on my lunch hour. I’ve been ripped for just noticing the cover of a Victoria Secret catalogue when I sort through a stack of incoming mail. She will not define limits or say exactly what she wants (I don’t think she even knows). Talking about it did not help as she will not deal with the underlying problem much less admit what it is routed in. I am just beginning to learn how to set limits on how she talks to me. This may seem like a simple problem to solve but it isn’t. I hope Jeanine is successful in resolving all the conflicts inside and finds happiness.

Frank

B1: Submit
Date: Saturday, August 05, 2000

S1

Dear Janine

I think I know how you feel about questioning yourself with all the "what if's of the world." I'm doing the same thing although I think I had good reason to be suspicious of him. He was a confirmed sex addict and I didn't even know that there was such a thing.

I spent the first year of our life questioning myself whether I was crazy, jealous or both. He looked at women, made graphic sexual comments about women and was heavily involved in pornography. I'm not speaking about some guy on skid row, I'm talking about a middle aged handsome, very educated professional.

If I reacted to any of the comments, I was told I was insecure, "what was my problem I'm with you aren't I?" We were in such a passionate, romantic exciting relationship that I questioned myself every day. Was I cracking up? Was I this jealous wacko he was telling me I was?

By the third year and a couple of short separations where he just had to sexually work his way through a few more women, I was convinced that I was losing it. First, I thought I was losing it because I kept going back to him. Then I thought I was losing it because he had to tell me about the women he was with, show me their pictures, tell me all the things they did and places they went. Well, If I was jealous to start, now I was really mental. When I'd ask him not to do tell me he'd say, "there you go, now I have to watch my very words. It's behind us don't let it be a big deal."

Every attractive woman became my enemy. After he had gone through twelve or more women in three years he seemed to hit bottom. He had an awakening and realized that he had been just running away from intimacy. He'd go to counseling, read books, listen to tapes, anything, as long as I'd take him back and start over with him.

Since I knew he had just come off another round of women I was not emotionally ready to consider it but in the end I was psuedo convinced. After all wasn't this what I truly had dreamed and prayed for. Him to realize that he didn't need any one but me. So we committed our lives to each other, went to couples counseling, started reading the books. I learnt all I could about sex/fantasy addiction (there really is such a thing) and felt secure that since we were being so up front and honest we could overcome this together.

I was so proud of his effort to come clean, To not openly flaunt himself at women, flirt with women in front of me or even let his co-worker, with her graphic sexual teasing, pull him off his path of commitment. I started to relax, I know longer thought he was going to run off with every women who gave him a look, I believed he had become a new man.

What I didn't know was that his inner (woman thinking) demons were playing themselves out loud and clear in his head. He just wasn't telling me of the internal fight he was having to stay committed. I got so that I wasn't that insane jealous woman anymore, Although any time he wanted to get me riled he'd start obsessively talking about some woman he'd met, or else the one he worked with. I was prepared for this and would just ignore the bait, he'd step it up and up and up until he got a reaction and then he'd say. "See you'll never recover, you're always going to be wacko, there is no cure for you." I explained to him how I knew he was baiting me and how he knew that was the one weak area in my life and he knew that also. A person can have all the information on subjects such as sex addiction they want, but when you are in the midst of the behaviour it is very tough and wearing to the soul.

How can one person be two people? The nice guy side of him was so wonderfully, beautifully amazing, that it was almost incredible to see the other "addicted" guy emerge and take on that other persona. I'm still trying to sort out how much of his behaviour was crazy making and how much was really my insecurity. I guess I'll have a lot of time to figure it out because like you, mine has left once again and this time I know there is no turning back. Like you my heart aches for that great wonderful guy who I'd love to have back, if only he'd leave the other side of himself somewhere else.

I will do all I can to differentiate my insecurity, jealousy and co-dependency from real abusive reactive behaviour. I would love to know if any one else has ever dealt with such things.

Jealousy can be cured unlike what some of the literature says to the contrary. He made sure he researched, documented and presented that to me to prove I was wacko forever, while he was just displaying normal behaviour. That's why when I read some posts and answers I have to wonder just how innocent the guys were? I know my guy thinks he's a saint and it was all me but since he acknowledged himself to be one who suffers from sex addiction, I don't think I was as crazy as he portrayed me to be, but...I'm still wondering if I am...

B1: Submit
Date: Monday, August 07, 2000

S1

WOW, that is ROUGH. The rough part is that you are still working on your own security, trying to believe that you are not the sick person in your situation. I totally sympathize. I've been through this and we are the product of manipulation - but we let it happen. These people are grand manipulators, they will do ANYTHING and everything to avoid taking responsibility for their actions - including going to great lengths to prove that YOU are the crazy person. WRONG!!! Hear me again - WRONG!!! I can look at your situation from what you've told us and see that you are clearly not the head case here - he is. He has major issues with this sex addiction that you can't change. He's managed to make you think that it's "all you"! I know what this is like - it's horrible for individuals like us who are prone to believe it and accept that responsibility. That's where we need to do work on feeling secure enough to believe that we are right! Work on that and try to get as far from him as possible. Are you in therapy? This could help you see the light more clearly. This person can't give you 100%...think about it. Can't give YOU 100%...are you thinking enough of yourself and your needs? I'm here if you want to talk. I'm always good at telling someone else, a little harder on doing it myself but let me tell you, I've come a long way!!!!! You can too.

Good luck, LHW

B1: Submit
Date: Tuesday, August 08, 2000

S1

Dear C,

I can only repeat the words of LHW: WOW. You have survived so so much. It is a credit to your enduring spirit. Buy with every new sentence you wrote I wanted to yell out: Leave, leave, leave and never never never look back. A couple of thoughts

You do not have a problem with jealousy. I want to repeat that: you do not have a problem with jealousy.

This sick person has so so disrespected you, he is so far down a deep deep bad place, do not let him pull you in.

Jealousy is a personal thing. I think that all healthy people recognize and feel jealousy at one point or another. The key is talking about it with your partner and being listened too by your partner. No one can say you are "too jealous." If you feel that way, then you are. Case closed. Your partner should listen and try to understand. But I think the partner has a role too. There is a limit of how much one person can do to assuage the other person's fears. In a very basic way:

Does my abilities and boundaries fit to meet your needs and fears?

Like Frank stated, its about setting limits. And I said, the fear is that if you set a limit they will walk.

You make a good point a person can be jealous for a reason or a person can be jealous because they have some inner problem. YOU ARE JEALOUS FOR A REASON. He has a serious problem.

You said how can he be 2 people? Maybe I think think of him as one sick person., If he had a very contagious disease, say leprosy, or ebola virus, you wouldn't stay with him unguarded. He would be placed in a hospital under quarantine until he was cured.

He has an ebola virus of the soul. Until, if ever he finds a cure he will continue to destroy himself and you.

For the moment, don't worry about your insecurities as you call them. Worry about your soul. Protect your soul. You are as worthy and as wonderful to enjoy a happy shining life as the rest of us. You obviously have the goodness and will find a person who will celebrate it.

You ask about men, how innocent they are?

Warning Will Robinson: any man who thinks they are a saint isn't. Its a fact of the universe.

We are all different and sometimes make mistakes, it is the ability to listen and take in when we have hurt our partner and make sure we don't commit the same mistake twice that can create a love relationship.

Love does not yell. Love does not berate. Love does not name call. Love does not sleep around. Love sometimes gets angry though. Love communicates that anger into a healthy resolution that in the end leaves the love stronger. You deserve Love. Not what you describe above.

About men?? D stands for David

B1: Submit
Date: Tuesday, August 08, 2000

S1

Dear LHW,

I must share with you the same thoughts. It does not sound pathetic. Holidays were the worst as well. Each one together was ruined. If we were going to my parents house, then before we arrived she would fight and yell and name call. BY the time we got to my parents home I was exhausted. Only in hind sight and with therapy can I only guess that she was insecure about it and lashed out. I am only speculating.

This last birthday I was reached the same conclusion as you. I spent it alone. BY the way, Happy Birthday. To make matters worst, my girlfriend and I had the same birthday. It is in the late winter. I was alone and drove out to the beach and sat and wrote by myself on the shore. It felt and still feels like I need alone time . I understand your point and thank you for sharing.

I recommend: Patricia Evans: The Verbally Abusive Relationship and Verbal Abuse Survivors Speak Out. I am not making this up but the same thing happened to me. She spotted the books in my apt and became very very very irritated. We fought.

You are so right. Finding healthy connections. for us all.

B1: Submit
Date: Tuesday, August 08, 2000

S1

Dear Frank,

I can only tell you what I found out: if I have to sneak around to do ordinary things like read a paper or watch a TV show, I slowly developed resentment and rage over it. Then after a while I began to rage back.

Maybe couples therapy would help. But the position you are in will not allow you to grow. It will stifle.

I think both partners must come together on common ground. Giving and taking. Maybe the question is: why is she so insecure?

Only you can make you happy. You can't calm her soul. I think her limit setting is not the issue. I think her underlying problem are not the issue for you. I think you must set limits, whether they are Lets get some help, or limit setting with her and your activities. Good luck setting them. I know its hard.

Look, I am just someone on some nameless computer, but maybe if you both talked about it in front of a professional, someone who could objectively look at the relationship it might help things improve.

Peace

B1: Submit
Date: Tuesday, August 08, 2000

S1

Dear Frank,

Maybe couples therapy would help. But the position you are in will not allow you to grow. It will stifle.

I think both partners must come together on common ground. Giving and taking. Maybe the question is why is she so insecure?

Peace

B1: Submit
Date: Thursday, August 10, 2000

S1

Thanks for all the support. A thoughtful reply when one feels so confused is priceless. I have great guilt over my reactive behaviour. When I took him back this last time I should have known better than to get so upset and verbally abusive towards him. That made me as bad as, if not worse than him.

I knew he'd been with other women while he was gone and so if I took him back I should have just started fresh instead of asking questions and getting answers too graphic for my soul to process. He said I did this because on a previous "acting out episode" he'd written in a journal. He had left the journal where I could read it. I found out that all the special, wonderful, intimate things we did for each other were not so special after all. He used the same technique on each woman he was with, right down to the same music. They also fell deeply in love with him, which of course meant that when we got back together I saw all the pictures, love letters pleading for his return etc..

When he said that he had seen the light once and for all, and that I was still reacting to the past women problems and still punishing him for that. Maybe I was. I think it's like post traumatic stress disorder, if it happens once and they heal you and themselves by never doing it again, you recover. When it happens again and again then it's like touching an open wound that never has a chance to heal.

So, who's the dumb one? Knowing and seeing all this I still took him back, believed him and trusted that he had turned his life around. As I said before, I was convinced. He was so attentive, he read the books, went to the counseling and so did I, we talked about all the problems until I thought everything was resolved and in the past. He continued to spend his free time reading all the good books on childhood trauma, relationships etc. and then when I least expected it. My miracle had occurred I thought, We had gotten through the storms, He left with no notice to go find himself and find a real true intimate relationship with someone who wouldn't be so jealous and insecure.

He left me a note after all these years saying.. "I was with you in my time of weakness and dependency, needing all your strong love, care and understanding but now I'm strong and I realize that I was with you because I needed you but I don't love you and you could never make me happy." Sickening words to hear when you are not expecting some one is going to leave.

He did leave and sent me a note one day a couple of months later saying he was the happiest he had been in his life, had found peace and he didn't regret he had left although he felt bad for me knowing how much I love him.

I do wonder what is so wrong with me that I didn't leave the very first time and never come back. I said it was because of the huge power of love but now I think it's the huge power of stupidity. Love doesn't hurt.

B1: Submit
Date: Thursday, August 10, 2000

S1

Thanks for all the support.

A thoughtful reply when one feels so confused is priceless. I have great guilt over my reactive behaviour. When I took him back this last time, I should have known better than to get so upset and verbally abusive towards him. That made me as bad as, if not worse than him. Stop with the guilt. The last thing you need is to waste precious energy. Just note your mistakes and try to do better next time...

When you say that you have been there done that also what do you mean. Could there possibly be someone else that is so blind out there? If so please tell me about it.

B1: Submit
Date: Thursday, August 10, 2000

S1

Thanks for the support. I hear this from my friends also but for some reason still want to totally blame myself. Probably because he told me I was to blame. Probably because you've been programmed to blame yourself forever and so you bought into his blame. Stop now! Think: lessons that need to be learned. Think: what else do I have to clean up to be the best I can be?

Actually he now says that since we did all that therapy, together, individually etc. and read all those great books, he has seen the truth. The truth being that he was actually with me for all my strength and love because it was the years of his life he was in great need and co-dependent on me. BUT now he is strong and with that new strength had come to realize it was need he felt and not love. That I couldn't ever make him happy and he could never be happy with me.

His update to that, is a note he sent me to say that he is the happiest he has ever been and knows he will one day find the true love of his life and had been mistaken in telling me I was. That he will find someone who isn't so insecure and jealous and that will have a more intimate relationship with him than we even had. Big blow there, since we shared everything with each other.

I have only myself to blame. What is it about me that I would allow such treatment? That is a question I need an answer for. You've probably come from a home where you were blamed or were raised by codependent parents who placed the blame on themselves, etc. Much more important is to stop doing it. I know his contempt, criticism, cruel judgments and put downs certainly contributed to my low self esteem over the years. With each new woman he had been with I questioned my worth as a woman instead of seeing him as a womanizer. How smart can that be?

Worse yet I still miss him,,, how sick is that to hear? BUT I am moving forward though it be at a snail's pace. Trying to trust in God instead of him. OK, now you're back on track.

B1: Submit
Date: Thursday, August 10, 2000

S1

Dear C.

Again don't blame yourself too much. Not only is he sick, but he's also very very very mean. To say those things to you and leave that note. Unacceptable.

I think the real truth is he will move on and destroy someone else.

I have to hand it to you guys for some excellent support and advice on this board. Thanks for making my job so easy.

B1: Submit
Date: Saturday, August 26, 2000

S1

My mom was a controlling rageholic. I was so afraid of being like her that I let myself be victimized in fear of setting boundaries. I am learning that it is OK to take care of yourself and set boundaries. Mom went into rages terrorizing our entire family. She controlled through rage, manipulation and many other games. I have never understood why my dad let her do this or why he did not put a stop to it. When I was 13 I told my father, "Dad, when you are at work mom slaps me and calls me dirty names." He said, "Your mom is sick and needs your help." I told him that I was just a kid and didn't know how to help. Still don't. My vow as a young girl to never treat a man like my mother treated my father backfired on me. I didn't set boundaries and let my ex-husband's abuse me. I did nothing for fear of being like my mom. In everything there is balance.

B1: Submit
Date: Sunday, August 27, 2000

S1

Fear of "not" being like someone is something I can relate to. I don't know why but when I tried "not" to be like someone I did many of the same things too.

In my case, my mom was not good at setting limits with other people and I think in a way defined her own worth my the recognition of others. My dad was the silent type. He didn't let you know how he was feeling and other time things boiled and he would periodically explode.

I didn't want to be like them and ended up with traits of both. I didn't set limits well and didn't express my anger well. So when I wasn't setting limits and taking care of myself first, I was exploding. Very attractive.

But you said something that really is profound: we didn't know any better as children. We needed our parents to set limits and protect and demonstrate and model healthy behavior. Now we have to be our own best parents. I found that being healthy is work.

Peace,

B1: Submit
Date: Saturday, March 01, 2003

S1

i love you