How to get Dr. Irene's Advice: Look here!

Ask The Doc Board

The CatBox Archives

 

(Archives)

4/14 Interactive Board: Codependent Partners

3/23 Interactive Board: He's Changing... I'm Not...

3/1 Interactive Board: D/s Lifestyle

1/14 Interactive Board: My Purrrfect Husband

12/12 Interactive Board: What if He Could Have Changed?

10/23 Interactive Board: Quandary Revisited

8/24 Interactive Board: Quandary! What's Going On?

7/20: Dr. Irene on cognitive behavior therapy and mindfulness

6/12 Interactive Board: Unintentional Abuse

11/7 Interactive Board: Is This Abusive?

12/29 Interactive Board: There Goes the Wife...

11/4 Interactive Board: A New Me!

10/8 Interactive Board: Seeming Impossibility

9/8 Interactive Board: My Ex MisTreats Our Son

5/1 Interactive Board: I feel Dead - Towards Him

4/26 Interactive Board: Why is This So Hard?

4/19 Interactive Board: I Lost My Love...

4/7 Interactive Board: Too Guilty!

Doc@DrIrene.com

Comments for Mourning The Narcissist

Comments for Mourning The Narcissist

Material posted here is intended for educational purposes only, and must not be considered a substitute for informed advice from your own health care provider.

Courtesy of Dr. Irene Matiatos   Copyrightę 1998-2001. The material on this website may be distributed freely for non-commercial or educational purposes provided that author credit is given. For commercial distribution, please contact the author at Doc@drirene.com
 

 

B1: Submit
Date: Thursday, March 08, 2001

S1

I'm "the cast-off wife" of his youth.

He married another woman 40 days after the divorce: her fifth husband.

On one of my anniversaries since the divorce (I try to get my three adult children together to celebrate our being a family as of that marriage date), I asked my daughter how she was handling it, how she felt....

She said, "It just seems so sad that he could marry someone else so quickly."

He was like the Queen of Hearts: "Off with their heads!" when he flew into a rage. It was, "Pack up; and, get out."

B1: Submit
Date: Friday, March 09, 2001

S1

These past two series have helped verbalize some things that I could not. The descriptions used and explained have done nothing but confirm my inner thoughts and feelings. This is beyond a thank you or "this is great". It is a real tragedy when one awakens to the fact that you are married to someone that is so aptly described. The mental gymnastics that I have played inside my head have now been given names for the events if you know what I mean. I will add that if the partner becomes aware of their true identity it may cause some strange emotions in the victim as well. To see the self-absorbed person trying to be thoughtful is like watching an elephant try and walk on water, it just doesn't work. In my case of 15 years of a relationship based on an image and the upkeep of that image it does not sit well in one's heart and soul to watch the psuedo-apologetic behavior. My case is one that I believe counselors and psychiatrists alike would find to be text book in its entirety. I look forward to reading the coming articles. I do realize the source of these articles and take into account that life lived. I must say I appreciate the vulnerable position this person has put themselves.

B1: Submit
Date: Friday, March 09, 2001

S1

This has really hit home for me in my dealings with the now ex. Wow, the rage I felt after I filed for divorce and had to have him removed from my house with a restraining order due to an incident the day after our 1 year anniversary. We had a very loud and angry argument. He had picked up a broom and was going to hit me with it. I WANTED HIM TO HIT ME, so I could have an excuse to hurt him. WOW that rage was the most horrible feeling I had every had! He did not and left and I cried for an hour before I called the police. After him dragging things out and court battle and attorney battle, it was finally done 6 months after I filed. Imagine, married 1 year and it took another 6 months to finish the divorce.

I am now sitting within reach of acceptance. I have come to terms with what happened, and understand some of my behaviors and how I allowed some of my boundaries to be violated. Never again. The divorce has been final for about 3 months and he sometimes crosses my mind, but I realize what he is and have gotten to take a really good look at myself and what I want. I remind myself this was a learning experience.

Thanks again Dr. Irene. Your site has really been a great support for me.

K B1: Submit
Date: Monday, March 12, 2001

S1

What is a narcisist? Can a homely person be narcissistic? Is it a person who only loves himself?

B1: Submit
Date: Wednesday, March 14, 2001

S1

I just read the series of articles and it couldn't have described me and my ex-bf more perfectly. Every paragraph exposed more of what was experienced. Thank you so much for writing this.

Thankfully, I am out of the relationship, have gone through the phases of grief and am very happy. I also worked on my own issues so I won't choose that type of relationship again.

I am in a relationship now with a loving and kind man. Sometimes it is so different I don't know what to do. I am so used to unhealthy, that healthy seems strange. I hope that I will continue to enjoy the benefits of a healthy relationship and begin to feel more comfortable with it.

Thanks again for an excellent series,

SK

B1: Submit
Date: Monday, March 19, 2001

S1

Wow!

Ok, so this describes it perfectly. I am going to make my friends read this so they can understand me and what I am going through right now. The first paragraph describes the feeling towards a person like this. The main thing I have the toughest time with is that I am "disposable, dispensable and interchangable, an object" I am fully aware that I have more than likely been replaced already (although it has been only 1 1/2 weeks since the break has occured, and that the next "victim" had already more than likely been chosen as the breaking off process began in earnest about 3 months ago. I suppose I have righteous anger that I have suffered, and am even suffering extreem pain now, and more than likely my "narcissist" isn't feeling a qualm or a tremor, just jauntily sucking the emotional quotent from his next victim. I know, but I just want justice for him. I am of the school of what comes around goes around though...and I fully believe that one day, he and other narcissic people, will receive what they have dished out. Or will be fully alone in the end. I know for a fact the man I was with has had tons of victims. He has kept all cards and correspondance from each of his past slaughters. All of them start in the same loving way, and end in the same pitiful cry's. You would have thought I would have ran reading those...but no, he was not that way with me...ha, ha. The laugh was on me. Thanks for all of this information, it has certainly helped me to understand my situation much better!

 

B1: Submit
Date: Sunday, April 01, 2001

S1

Oh help! This dexcribes what I have been going through. I mean about the person married to a narcissist. Does this mean that it really is pointless trying. Is redemption not an option? As a Christian I can't believe it isn't. Jay

B1: Submit
Date: Sunday, January 06, 2002

S1

AMEN!!!!! I just survived a one-year "interaction" (as opposed to "relationship") with a somatic narcissist and it is just as Dr. Valkin describes (I have read his whole site - how obsessive am I?) I went through the entire cycle of idealized love, the subtle abuse -- Dr. Valkin lists those methods elsewhere -- the inevitable destruction of my self-esteem and my leaving/his discarding (it is never really clear). I was left an empty shell even with MINIMAL contact with the narcissist - kind of an acute disease. One abortion, one STD and around $3000 in money given or loaned, I am now in recovery, and realizing that my father very likely was a narcissist. I am mourning deeply, HOWEVER, had this person not entered my life, I would not know the truth about myself. Sometimes we have to learn our lessons the hard way. I can only imagine the pulp I would have been reduced to had I stayed involved with this man.

B1: Submit
Date: Friday, February 08, 2002

S1

I am being devalued by my narcissist right now. These words are so validating for me. I was common law married to this guy for nearly 7 years. He cheated on me and gave me 4 STDs and one of them is incurable. He wouldn't work. Yet I stayed, miserable all the while. Then I finally got shed of him and about a month into it he called begging forgiveness. I told him to forget it. He called again. I forgave and we resumed a friendship. That is until he raped me on New Years Eve. It was so ugly but I was so invalid from years of mind control that I just blew it off. A few years later I fell into poor circumstances and I ended up living next door to him in an apt complex. Soon the arrogant, oblivious and insensitve behaviors reappeared. He tried to force sex on me again. He cut me off from all my friends and family and got keys to my car and apt. He invaded my privacy and admitted that he loved to rile me up. I finally after 18 months in the prison that is a relationship with him found a new apt. He was furious. His older brother helped me move but he didn't lift a finger despite protest that he wanted me to have a better life with or without him. Since I moved he now has to borrow his brother's car and undoubtably has noticed that groceries and gas cost money. He returned my car which he refered to as his but didn't give me the key back. It was bone dry of gas and filthy inside and out. Today is his birthday and I haven't heard from him in about 2 weeks. That contact was to call me at work and make a rude demand for his camera which I don't have and then hang up on me. I am nervous and debilitated. I keep reading anything that Sam Vaknin send me. I feel very sorry for his family and I worry that he will poison their minds against me. I am of no use to him anymore. I encourage those of you who were treated as I was to realize that you are better off without them. It leaves and awful ache to be objectified. Don't let it happen again. These people will never love you no matter what they say. Andrea

B1: Submit
Date: Saturday, April 13, 2002

S1

I've gone back and forth on this web site so I may have commented on this already. My narcissist was my therapist - a holistic one at that - and after being a patient of his, actually started working for him. The above so incredibly describes how I feel\have felt that I feel better just reading it. I'm in acceptance stage, I think, but it's been so complex that places and things remind me of him and all these big plans I had for our business, it still gets depressing every now and then, but the worst is over. He's telling people I'm confused and don't know what I want. I should be grateful that's all he's fabricated.

B1: Submit
Date: Monday, May 13, 2002

S1

Thank you for this website. I read the posts and how frightening to find so many others with my same experience! I almost wonder if they aren't some of his other women! I am in the process of trying to break free of the relationship and not fall back into that fantasy that it will work out. God, can I relate to that process of how it starts out so ideally and just continues to deteriorate. It started out seeming like it was everything I wanted. I thought I would marry this person! Some days now I feel like I'm trapped in a nightmare. I, too, have had to go through the ordeal of an abortion, constant infidelity and, recently, threats to my person since I've tried to end it. Thank you for this information that affirmed my reality and reminds me I am not alone and to continue on my path of walking away, taking care of myself and maybe even hope for a brighter future!.

B1: Submit
Date: Friday, June 28, 2002

S1

Hello, I appreciate your thoughful concern with grieving the loss of the ambivilent relationship, but I have to say I work with Hospice and "stages" of grief over any loss are very rough, often misleading catergories. In grief, we often cycle and revisit different parts of the journey, there is no set order or progression. Thank you.

B1: Submit
Date: Thursday, July 25, 2002

S1

I have been involved with a man for over a year that is into spanking. Initially he told me it was just something he did occasionally, as I saw during the course of the relationship, his interests were constant. Online chat rooms, parties meeting previous "play" partners , and then he fact that really his only interest was in getting spanked and being sexually satisfied afterwards. Saying he needed to be scolded, regress and sexually released. His constant anxieties over being found out, paranoid and critical comments to me started to eat away at what trust and belief I did have in him. This man is a professional, a MD. The past few months have been ongoing arguments, tremedous stress and his overly critical view of me as a threat to everything.. When in fact his involvement in this has been going on for over 20yrs. Blaming me for his fears, anxities and even his not being able to sexually perform at this time. Obviously this is about control, manipulation and I sense a fear or intimacy or lack of love towards women.. I would appreciate any insite into this type of behaviour and how i can avoid further damage to myself.. Thanks

B1: Submit
Date: Thursday, July 25, 2002

S1

I have been involved with a man for over a year that is into spanking. Initially he told me it was just something he did occasionally, as I saw during the course of the relationship, his interests were constant. Online chat rooms, parties meeting previous "play" partners , and then he fact that really his only interest was in getting spanked and being sexually satisfied afterwards. Saying he needed to be scolded, regress and sexually released. His constant anxieties over being found out, paranoid and critical comments to me started to eat away at what trust and belief I did have in him. This man is a professional, a MD. The past few months have been ongoing arguments, tremedous stress and his overly critical view of me as a threat to everything.. When in fact his involvement in this has been going on for over 20yrs. Blaming me for his fears, anxities and even his not being able to sexually perform at this time. Obviously this is about control, manipulation and I sense a fear or intimacy or lack of love towards women.. I would appreciate any insite into this type of behaviour and how i can avoid further damage to myself.. Thanks

B1: Submit
Date: Thursday, July 25, 2002

S1

I have been involved with a man for over a year that is into spanking. Initially he told me it was just something he did occasionally, as I saw during the course of the relationship, his interests were constant. Online chat rooms, parties meeting previous "play" partners , and then he fact that really his only interest was in getting spanked and being sexually satisfied afterwards. Saying he needed to be scolded, regress and sexually released. His constant anxieties over being found out, paranoid and critical comments to me started to eat away at what trust and belief I did have in him. This man is a professional, a MD. The past few months have been ongoing arguments, tremedous stress and his overly critical view of me as a threat to everything.. When in fact his involvement in this has been going on for over 20yrs. Blaming me for his fears, anxities and even his not being able to sexually perform at this time. Obviously this is about control, manipulation and I sense a fear or intimacy or lack of love towards women.. I would appreciate any insite into this type of behaviour and how i can avoid further damage to myself.. Thanks

B1: Submit
Date: Tuesday, December 10, 2002

S1

One of the best antidotes is to talk, but to choose the person you talk with carefully - Al-Anon is a safe place to do this - with a sponsor - words make what is trapped inside lose it's hold and power over one - and, surprisingly, other people have had very similar experiences and may just say what you need to hear - it gets rid of the shame of being duped and puts it out there in the open where one can deal with it better - the only qualification for attending Al-Anon meetings is that someone's (even if it's great uncle Joe's) drinking or drugging has caused a person a problem - the tools we learn in there are phenomenal - one may pick up only one thing at a meeting, but it's something useful - each meeting gives new insight - and the good news is that you can pass and not talk during discussion meetings - listening is good too - it's anonymous and you don't even have to give your name if you don't want to at first because dealing with situations like this erodes trust - at first

B1: Submit
Date: Sunday, March 23, 2003

S1

I am married to a Narcissist for 6 yrs. He had been married for 15 yrs. to a woman who died of brain cancer. They have a 14 yr. old son who I have been raising. He never grieved over her. He immediately the day after the funeral, started dating. We married and three yrs. ago, my husband had an affair with a 55 yr. woman/grandmother in the building where he works (she is a vendor). He went to her and aired our laundry to her and she in turn built up his ego and told him he was doing everything right and I was to blame. As a Narcisst, he loved this and has continually blamed me for everything. He has found God and he and his lover have mutually agreed not to commit adultery any more (this is what he says). I don't believe him because then he'd be losing his secondary supply. The day before they supposedly broke up, I was served with divorce papers. I believe she had given him an ultimatum so he was pressured to start the divorce. Our son does not want anything to do with this woman. My husband is in therapy. I'm not sure if he is getting anything out of it or not. In the meantime, we live in the same house. I am trying to get a mortgage to buy the house. He leaves things laying around for me to see, he comes home early to check up on me. I know what he is doing. I know that he does not know how to love, he cannot say the words. My question is why did he go to a 55 yr. old woman? He mentioned that he picked a mother figure.

B1: Submit
Date: Wednesday, April 09, 2003

S1

Thank God he is Gone, The best thing I ever did was tell him good-bye. He wanted to stay "friends" even after he got together with all of his past and present girlfriends. It was quite an eye opener when I realized that he needed me to stay in his life for his secondary NS supply. How demeaning! I went through all of the emotions of denial, rage, sadness and acceptance. It feels great that he is gone and I can live! Acceptance is GOOD! Feel Good and say goodbye. Easier said then done but once you do it and go through all of YOUR emotions it feels right. Unlike what you have been going through?!

B1: Submit
Date: Thursday, May 01, 2003

S1

from Suite101.com Author: nickyskye Date: March 13, 2001 10:31 AM Subject: grieving an N In response to message posted by Hermes: My heart goes out to you in your recovery. Grieving the loss of a relationship with an N has many layers. They are not the usual layers of grieving a healthy person. The problem is that some of the layers ARE the same as grieving a healthy person but then there are layers reserved only for the loss of an N relationship, which are not understood by the 'civilian' population and can ONLY be understood by those who have survived a significant relationship with an N. In a healthy relationship break-up one grieves: * The dream of love not continuing. *The break in the continuity of the familiar. *The pain of saying goodbye. *The sadness of the exchange of ill will in the parting. *A sense of loss. *Living with the nostalgia of things one used to do together, broken memories of past pleasures. *Hope interrupted. *Well wishing put aside for self-survival. Those are typical feelings that can come up after a break-up of a healthy relationship. But grieving an N there are other ingredients, not available to the public understanding, such as: * The nightmare of going from being idealized to being devalued. * Discovering the web of lies on many levels. * Coming to terms with the terrible, terrible understanding that one was not an object of love but a source of NS. That in itself is so painful that it has many stages of comprehension. * The dawning of understanding that one's nostalgia and tender memories of affection for the N were corrupted by the N's agenda. * Not being believed by people about some of the weird things the N did and feeling isolated in one's grief more than in grieving a healthy break-up. * Discovering with some horror, mingled with relief of a strange kind, that the person one loved was not the person one thought one loved. * Everything about the relationship shifts into the garish clinical light of the DSMlV. One's object of former love is now something of a lab specimen, "a typical N". * Not being able to let go with love but having to let go only with understanding. The closure itself has the sadness of knowing the ex is disfigured, deformed but always dangerous. * When one hears one's healthy ex is having sex with a new person, married, or has gone on in their life, there is a sting of sadness, the nostalgia for 'what could have been'. That itself,the astringency becomes part of the detaching. And as time goes by that sting becomes a well wishing, including the ex in one's loving prayers. The ex gets woven into the fabric of one's fond memories. * But with a xN, news of their present life always bring chills of fear and twinges of unresolved grieving. Who are they hurting now? Will they ever come into my life again? Was I not important to them, was it all that for nothing? Knowing about the N's need for NS one cannot help thinking will they come back for my NS? Was *my* NS something they treasured and miss? * But in the light of day, understanding the N means that one is not valued for who one IS but only as a commodity, for NS, empty, meaningless NS. * After the detachment is physically complete with an N there is the nagging abyss of was that all for nothing? It's a terrible loss and there is nowhere to go with that loss. It's static. It doesn't evolve into lost love. It just remains as a loss. Grieving an N is a burden, it's a hole in one's life. Love, Nicky