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4/14 Interactive Board: Codependent Partners

3/23 Interactive Board: He's Changing... I'm Not...

3/1 Interactive Board: D/s Lifestyle

1/14 Interactive Board: My Purrrfect Husband

12/12 Interactive Board: What if He Could Have Changed?

10/23 Interactive Board: Quandary Revisited

8/24 Interactive Board: Quandary! What's Going On?

7/20: Dr. Irene on cognitive behavior therapy and mindfulness

6/12 Interactive Board: Unintentional Abuse

11/7 Interactive Board: Is This Abusive?

12/29 Interactive Board: There Goes the Wife...

11/4 Interactive Board: A New Me!

10/8 Interactive Board: Seeming Impossibility

9/8 Interactive Board: My Ex MisTreats Our Son

5/1 Interactive Board: I feel Dead - Towards Him

4/26 Interactive Board: Why is This So Hard?

4/19 Interactive Board: I Lost My Love...

4/7 Interactive Board: Too Guilty!

Doc@DrIrene.com

Comments for Mate of Narcissist

Comments for Spouse / Mate of Narcissist

Material posted here is intended for educational purposes only, and must not be considered a substitute for informed advice from your own health care provider.

Courtesy of Dr. Irene Matiatos   CopyrightŠ 1998-2001. The material on this website may be distributed freely for non-commercial or educational purposes provided that author credit is given. For commercial distribution, please contact the author at Doc@drirene.com

Up

B1: Submit
Date: Thursday, March 01, 2001

S1

Narcissism is a trait of paranoid personality disorder, which fits my abusive brother. The different types of abuse mentioned are excellent. This is exactly how my brother operates with family members, "friends," and women he has dated. My brother is 48 yrs. old, so it is easy to see this pattern in his life, for those of us who have known him for several years. It is easy to see how victims are thrown off balance. Eventually all of the women my brother dated left him. He alienated his "friends" and family. It appears that the only solution is for the victim to run as far and fast as possible. Otherwise, the victim(s) can spend their life waiting for the narcissist to change. Over the years I noticed that women with independence and high self esteem left my brother behind immediately and never looked back. Others were sucked in the dance with him for years. I got to know some of his ex's well. The ones who stayed with him the longest were abused as children. But, eventually, they left him too. A

My parents and I could never figure out for many years what was wrong with my brother. For a long time we thought it was alcohol and drug abuse, then we learned that was just a symptom of a bigger problem. Did my brother feel helpless as a child? Yes, we both did. Fortunately for myself, I left home, worked my way through college and graduate school, and went into therapy off and on for many years. My brother chose to stay home and manipulate my parents into supporting him until they died. He now feels that I am obligated to support him. I'm somewhat embarrassed to admit that I was manipulated into living with him, and now supporting him. But, my head is clear about getting away from him as soon as possible. I have had him arrested before, and will not hesitate to call police again if needed, but as this author mentioned, their unpredictable behavior is very stressful. I have found the best solution for myself is to stay focused on my needs, the path I'm on, and not get side tracked by him. Sis

B1: Submit
Date: Thursday, March 01, 2001

S1

It feels awfully creepy to read a profile of my husband as I felt I was doing when I read this article. "Ambient abuse" is a perfect term for the atmosphere in my home. The incredible unpredictability is very unsettling. In response to my actions I may be met with enormous rage, or silence for weeks, or with extreme affection. I just never know. It doesn't seem to matter what I do at all. Often these "reactions" are to something he tells me I really think or feel, even if I, or especially if I, tell him that is not how I think or feel. This is why I have said many times over the years: I am not in this relationship. He is in it all by himself, and I am somehow connected to it in his mind, but not in any way that has anything to do with me.

So, I have told him that I feel this way. I thought I could make him see. I realise now that he does not want to see, and that I had better start listening to myself. I am the one who really needs to see....I have been thinking it was him. But it is not. It is me. I need to hear myself. When I think of the things I have said, and I realise how true they are, I cannot believe I have stayed. I knew what was happening, but I wouldn't let myself feel it. I pushed the feeling away by knowing it in my mind, and then trying to convince him. I am trying SO hard not to do that anymore, and it is scary.

This article helped a lot. I do not know if my h is a narcissist or just a garden variety mean person, but who cares at this point.

Right now I can do no wrong in my home. I am wonderful in all ways, and he tells me constantly how much and deeply he loves me. Why? HOW WOULD I KNOW??? Tomorrow I may be back to being the reason for all the problems in the world. If not tomorrow, then soon. When that happens, I guess I will have to leave. My daughter will be heartbroken, because she loves her daddy, and he is very good to her. But it is strange how he is good to her. It bothers me that he talks about her almost exclusively in terms of how she makes him feel. He needs to control everything, and yet he had no opinion, for example, on where she would go to school. It doesn't affect him! He says about our daughter that she really knows how to make a person feel loved. I don't know, it sounds nice, but it bugs me.

I am off on a rant. This article scared me. That's good, I think, so thank you for printing it.

B1: Submit
Date: Thursday, March 01, 2001

S1

Thank you, thank you, thank you. I have searched long and far and then suddenly IT appeared. The perfect article on what I have been living with. This may seem like "just" an article to someone else, but to me, it is the explanation of what I have been living. With this information I can go onwards and upwards in my personal journey of dealing with why I have allowed this to happen to me.

Your site here Dr. Irene is so powerful to those of us that are in need of answers, that words can never convey what it has personally meant. Thanks is just a token word.

B1: Submit
Date: Friday, March 02, 2001

S1

Thank you so much for your articles from Dr. Vaknin. I have read a lot of his articles. My therapist as well as my childrens therapist have suggested that my ex is a narcissist. So much of what Dr. Vaknin says about NPD fits my expierences with my ex as well as with my children. I am praying that I can get my 14 yr. old son and 10 yr. old daughter turned around as they are behaving like my ex. To quote my therapist,"Your ex is using your children as tools and weapons to continue to abuse you." I will encourage everyone who feels they can relate to what Dr. Vaknin says about NPD, to read all of his articles about NPD. It will be very educating!!! Thank you again Dr. Irene. You are a blessing!!!!!

 B1: Submit
Date: Saturday, March 03, 2001

S1

Whew! Did this hit close to home! Although I've grasped the concept of narcissism intellectually before, Dr. Vaknin's contribution made it "real" to me for the first time.

My husband is clearly the narcissist, as both my individual counselor and our (former) joint counselor have attested. I say former, because my husband has declared he is fine, does not want to change, and will not change. So I either accept him as he is, or leave - a "my way or the highway" scenario. How typical, I now see!

As I've gone on my own journey to recognize and deal with my codependence, I've seen just what Dr. Vaknin has explained - that I have the same narcissistic tendencies turned inside out - as a recovering victim. Not a pretty picture. Now that I'm aware of it, though, I am working at changing the picture.

Thanks for this eye opener.

J

B1: Submit
Date: Monday, March 05, 2001

S1

Wow...my jaw dropped at many portions of this article. I am still suffering through waves of shaken self-confidence and low self-esteem with many of the episodes I experienced with my verbally and emotionally abusive partner. It is at these times when I tend to seek answers...to seek out help for my pain. Reading this article this afternoon really helped to reinforce in my mind how truly disturbed my partner is, and how I am so much better of without her, even though I miss the closeness we used to share.

Perhaps most eye opening was the following..."The narcissist idealizes and then DEVALUES and discards the object of his initial idealization. " After the first SEVERAL months of our relationship, my partner told her sister that I was the "perfect man". Of course, I knew this wasn't true...there is no perfect man...but to be valued in such a way was wonderful nonetheless. To have been gradually dehumanized to the extent that I am labeled "pathetic" and blamed for her abusive anger was something I was unprepared for. Admittedly, I was at a low point in my life when I met her...I now see how much that vulnerability contributed to both my interest in and subsequent strong dependence upon her. It wasn't until I strongly objected to her increasingly intolerant attitudes and criticism of me as a human being that she became exponentially abusive, both verbally and emotionally. So, I went from the idealized "perfect man" to less than human. It's so nice to read (although I already knew) about this type of personality and see it for what it is. As I said, my confidence was severely shaken by this type of abuse. I am seizing it back as I fight through each wave of pain, loneliness and insecurity ON MY OWN.

Thanks for posting!!!!

Alan

 

B1: Submit
Date: Tuesday, March 06, 2001

S1

Wow, This describes my husband of 4 months to a t!!!

B1: Submit
Date: Tuesday, March 06, 2001

S1

I can't tell you how long it took me to realize this.. I completely agree. I fell in-love with a man who wasn't "real". It wasn't until he "had" me that things came to surface.. the "real" him. Was I ever in for a shock! After 4months of wooing me, out of the blue everything changed. He became someone I didn't even recognize anymore. He became just the opposite of what he portrayed himself to be. I found out much later, the way he treated me was the exact same thing his wife left him for, and many other women as well. My biggest problem was wanting the man back that I fell in-love with, even though my head knew he didn't really exist. I feel in-love with a prince who was really a toad, lol. I can laugh now, but oh I had so much pain to get through for many months. All I feel now is pity for him. He ended up dragging me to the gutter. Too bad he's still there and I am me again and sooo free! Be careful girls, he's still out there and on the net, and there's plenty more like him.

B1: Submit
Date: Wednesday, March 07, 2001

S1

I thoroughly enjoyed and identified with this article. Thank you for exploring this topic. My question is still- How can you reverse narcissism in a person? Is it too deeply rooted to reverse or can it be helped? Also- would it be wise to make make the narcissist aware of his actions? Please email me at Heartbeatstill@aol.com thank you

B1: Submit
Date: Thursday, March 08, 2001

S1

The description fits pretty well. I got physically ill.

After 25 years together--possibly, for religious reasons such as committment to a vow (among all the rest)--what chance does the partner have of getting over it? of recovering? of getting a life?

I'm about to make four years after the divorce: I cut all contact, monitor telephone calls (via answering machine). (There are 3 adult children.)

Here I am, still trying to understand. Still feeling outraged on occasion.

B1: Submit
Date: Friday, March 16, 2001

S1

Dear Dr. Irene,

Thanks for making the clear connection between verbal abuse and narcissism. These pathologies are both the domain of emotionally arrested people. Reading your site for the first time last year was an "AHA moment" for me, and then I discovered Sam's sites and other sites on NPD and had another epiphany. NPD was "the answer" for me, the key that unlocked the 40-year mystery of my emotional misery. My father was a narcissist, as were about 10 different guys I dated over a period of 25 years. I spent 10+ years in 12-step groups and therapy never understanding why I couldn't get to the root of my troubles ... in fact, it was never "my" troubles, it was THEIR troubles!! I always blamed myself for the N's manipulations and devaluations! Understanding NPD allowed me to make sense of their bizarre behavior patterns and finally absolve myself of their shame, which they so sadistically passed on to me. THANKS!!!!

B1: Submit
Date: Tuesday, March 27, 2001

S1

You struggle to leave: then, continue to hear associates angrily condemn those who end a marriage.

There's a lot of pressure against leaving. 
Date: Friday, March 30, 2001

S1

Hello, everyone,

Thank you so much for your kind words.

Thought you may find these additional links of interest.

Scroll down for support groups.

To learn more about the Narcissistic Personality Disorder...

You can start here - Introductory Chat about Narcissism (copy the address entirely and paste it in the browser window):

http://www.healthyplace.com/Communities/Personality_Disorders/Site/Transcripts/narcissism.htm

And here - Narcissistic Personality Disorder Criteria, Tips and Fact Sheet:

http://samvak.tripod.com/npdglance.html

http://samvak.tripod.com/npdtips.html

A Primer on Narcissism:

http://mentalhelp.net/perspectives/articles/art_v6n1_1.htm

Read Sample Chapters of my book "Malignant Self Love - Narcissism Revisited" (ISBN: 8023833847) - here:

http://samvak.tripod.com/mslpdf.zip

For a list of major mental health sites, go here:

http://dmoz.org

And select Health-Mental Health - Disorders or Mental Health - Directories.

Please do not forget that only a qualified mental health diagnostician can determine whether someone suffers from NPD and this, following lengthy tests and personal interviews.

The narcissism website contains the equivalent of 1000 print pages (please scroll down for links).

You can find lengthy and extensive answers to many of your questions in:

Click here:

http://personality.cjb.net or http://samvak.tripod.com/faq1.html

In this site (scroll down when you have accessed the page) you will find a list of Frequently Asked Questions (FAQs).

Click on each title (in blue colour) to access the full text.

Additionally, I would advise you to read the Excerpts from the Narcissism List Archive:

http://excerpts.cjb.net or http://samvak.tripod.com/archive01.html

(This is the first page. At the bottom of each page, there is a link to the next page of excerpts - there are currently 35such pages but pages are added periodically)

And the Essay:

http://www.geocities.com/vaksam/msla.html or http://samvak.tripod.com/msla.html

The Suite101 Narcissistic Personality Disorder web site - articles, my journal, discussions and links - is HERE:

http://www.suite101.com/welcome.cfm/6514

You can also search my entire site AND the archives of the Narcissism List:

Go to: http://samvak.tripod.com/

To search my site - click on the words "Search My Site" (in blue text)

To search the archives of the Narcissism List - click on the words "Search the Archives of the Narcissism List" (in blue text).

The full archives (thousands of articles) are available at: http://www.listbot.com/archive/narcissism

Finally, you can study pathological narcissism with my online tutorials:

Study the Narcissistic personality Disorder (NPD) in 82 easy lessons - based on my book "Malignant Self Love - Narcissism Revisited".

Available on Findtutorials - HERE:

Pathological Narcissism - Beginners` Level http://www.findtutorials.com/new/tutorial/ViewTutorial.asp?article_id=12

Pathological Narcissism - Intermediate Level http://www.findtutorials.com/new/tutorial/ViewTutorial.asp?article_id=17

Pathological Narcissism - Advanced Level http://www.findtutorials.com/new/tutorial/ViewTutorial.asp?article_id=14

Download a complete course in 150 lessons and dozens of links to valuable web sites - it's FREE - click HERE:

http://www.blackboard.com/courses/narcissism

Finally, why not download a Pathological Narcissism Primer and Glossary (To view - a Babylon browser is needed and can be downloaded here: http://www.babylon.com ):

http://info.babylon.com/cgi-bin/template.cgi?id=2744

SUPPORT GROUPS

You can participate in many discussions regarding narcissism HERE:

http://www.suite101.com/discussions.cfm/6514

Most major mental health sites carry referral services organized by region/state.

For a list of major mental health sites, go here:

http://dmoz.org

And select Health-Mental Health - Disorders or Mental Health - Directories.

Details of therapists can also be found in the archive of the Narcissism List (scroll down for address).

The Narcissism List is the FIRST and BIGGEST narcissism information and study list (as far as I was able to ascertain).

BUT

it is NOT a discussion or a support list.

Click here: http://www.geocities.com/vaksam/narclist.html or http://samvak.tripod.com/narclist.html to learn more...

Or go to the main gate to all my narcissism-related sites: http://narcissism.cjb.net or http://samvak.tripod.com/index.html

You can read excerpts from the archives of this list here:

http://www.geocities.com/vaksam/archive01.html

or here:

http://samvak.tripod.com/archive01.html

The full archives of the Narcissism Revisited Study List (thousands of articles and links) is here:

http://www.listbot.com/archive/narcissism

Support Groups

First are those groups focusing on Narcissism --

You can find more groups here (copy paste the entire address to your browser window):

http://dir.groups.yahoo.com/dir/Health___Wellness/Support/Illnesses/Mental _Health

(Type "NPD", "narcissistic", "narcissism" in the search dialog box).

Another list is AfterMath and to join that group, you must write to this address oakylady@aol.com and ask OakyLady to be added. She will respond asking you to tell her a bit about yourself and what you hope to get out of the list.

There is a public list (alt.narcissism) but it is rather inactive, I think.

Then there are some of the pretty good general Personality Disorder support groups --

I recommend the personality disorders list (use the link below), the CODA list and other lists on the St. John's server.

This is the URL of St. Johns university which hosts literally hundreds of lists on virtually any subject. Just click on it, scroll down the page, click on the list you choose and follow the instructions to subscribe.

GO HERE: http://maelstrom.stjohns.edu/

And click on "Online Lists".

Or, visit e-groups and use their search engine to see what new support groups they may have to offer:

http://groups.yahoo.com/

Search for various terms and words (narcissistic, personality, disorder,etc.)

OTHER ADDRESSES

A document listing various web resources and email forums and egroups in the vault of the human-nature-info egroup:

http://groups.yahoo.com/docvault/human-nature-info/

 

EMAIL FORUMS, EGROUPS, WEB SITES AND SEARCH INFORMATION

 

List of forums and web sites of interest to psychotherapists, counsellors and psychoanalysts at:

http://www.shef.ac.uk/~psysc/guides.html

 

Archive of web sites and forums on psychoanalysis, psychology, history & philosophy of the human sciences, human nature:

http://groups.yahoo.com/list/human-nature-info/

 

If you want to find email forums on any topic, go to Liszt http://www.liszt.com/

which covers over 90,000 of them. You type in a topic, and it tells you what forums there are for it.

SEARCH ENGINES

http://www.askjeeves.com/

http://www.google.com/

Search UK-based web sites:

http://www.searchuk.co.uk

http://www.mamma.com/

http://www.dogpile.com/

http://searchenginewatch.com/

 

 

Take care,

Sam Sam Vaknin, Ph.D. E-mail : palma@unet.com.mk OR (as backup) samvak@briefcase.com http://samvak.tripod.com/thebook.html (Buy "Malignant Self Love - Narcissism Revisited") http://samvak.tripod.com/after.html (Buy "After the Rain - How the West Lost the East") http://samvak.tripod.com/guide.html (The Politics and Economies of Countries in Transition) http://samvak.tripod.com/index.html (The Main Gate to my Sites concerning Pathological Narcissism) http://samvak.tripod.com/culture.html (Philosophical Musings) Author Archive of Political Columns http://www.ce-review.org/authorarchives/vaknin_archive/vaknin_main.html

Thanks!

B1: Submit
Date: Friday, April 13, 2001

S1

Oh my God to think I lived with this on and off for 4 years with this person(My ex-husband). I am very independent and that was when the problems started! He was a control freak! Loving sometimes and a raging maniac over nothing at other times! It is tragically funny that every once in awhile he will request on our local radio station the song by Lou Rawls that starts out,"You'll never find another love like mine,you'll keep searching and searching your whole life through!" I pray to God every day I don't find another love like him! Just like your articles say he was charming,romantic,loving and we got married within three months and then the "real" him showed up to finish the marriage off! I used to tell him he pushed me away from the day we said "I do!" Now I understand why because of all your articles!Thank You! I am in the process of healing and starting to like myself and gain self respect again! ANNETTE

B1: Submit
Date: Thursday, May 10, 2001

S1

Dear Sam , Thank you for your work. I am a regular visitor to Dr Irene's Website although I came across your site before your articles appeared here. I have only one comment at this stage and that is why not do an article of living with a narcissitic female. I have had the experience and in my opinion it is virtually the same as other posts on living with a male narcissist. It is harder in some ways for a male to deal with a female narcissist when he leaves as she presents well in court (and to child support agency) and already has the children in most cases. The current thinking that all women are meek and mild victims and all men are probably perpetrators of domestic violence that pervades the world at the moment does not help either. As a mental health professional I have come across many men in the predicament of having to deal with the narcissistic ex-female partner in a social environment that does not accomodate that the female could be non-empathic let alone arrogant. The children have little chance. They live in fear. I am buying 'The Narcisistic Family' by Stephanie Donaldson-Pressman for my 17 year old daughter as a present on her birthday. (plus other things of course) Thank You MAC (Australia)

B1: Submit
Date: Thursday, June 07, 2001

S1

My brother is a narcissist, people frequently must walk on eggshells around him. I've often stood up to him to have to tolerate screaming fits and wild accusations. Now we are older, and [only see eachother once every two months or so. But every holiday of family occation, there is an outburst. I can't divorce my brother, and he is my only sibling. How do I talk to him? Does this effect my realtionships with men in general?

B1: Submit
Date: Wednesday, June 20, 2001

S1

What an excellent article. I am married to one of those but currently separated, in the process of getting out of this relationship.

I hope I am not one of the "suppressed" narcissists..I have been oing to therapy for many years now..I hope I have other problems and not that one.

B1: Submit
Date: Thursday, July 19, 2001

S1

HELP, HELP, HELP, HELP, HELP, HELP,HELP, HELP, HELP, I have been struggling with my wife for 3 years. Before that, we lived together for 4 years. She just ended a 2 1/2 year affair, and had intercourse with the other man while she was pregnant with our 1 year old son. The articles I have read on narcissism are a blueprint for my wife. Now that I have identified her as a narcissist, and myself as a text book partner, DOES ANYONE KNOW WHAT I CAN DO TO HAVE A HEALTHY REALATIONSHIP WITH MY WIFE?

B1: Submit
Date: Thursday, July 19, 2001

S1

HELP, HELP, HELP, HELP, HELP, HELP,HELP, HELP, HELP, I have been struggling with my wife for 3 years. Before that, we lived together for 4 years. She just ended a 2 1/2 year affair, and had intercourse with the other man while she was pregnant with our 1 year old son. The articles I have read on narcissism are a blueprint for my wife. Now that I have identified her as a narcissist, and myself as a text book partner, DOES ANYONE KNOW WHAT I CAN DO TO HAVE A HEALTHY REALATIONSHIP WITH MY WIFE?

IF ANYONE CAN HELP, PLEASE DROP ME AN EMAIL TO; SCOTT@CSUSA.CC

Thanks greatly to anyone that can help!

B1: Submit
Date: Thursday, August 30, 2001

S1

my 'ex' has elements of the narcist. his family was full of conflict and verbal abuse. his mother was narcissistic and used to use the children to get at the father, for example threatening to commit suicide to the children so they would tell the father. she was also violent towards the father. she is quite remote emotionally, distant and not intimate. when i met my husband we feel madly in love and for 5 years he would break it off and then make up. when he drank alcohol he was very verbally abusive. he would use anything against me and made me doubt myself, i felt i was going crazy. we both went to therapy and things improved, and we married at last. the first few years were ok, then his self-doubts and low self esteem started to get the better of him and i didn't realise how emotionally drained i was becoming trying to bolster him up. he brought me down, he would try to encourage me in my work, but it would always feel like he was criticising. he is extremely negative and judgemental - a perfectionist. if i didn't behave the way he thought was acceptable he would go down a spiral into a black hole of despair and i would be dragged in there with him. now we have separated, i am beginning to wonder if i wasn't co-dependent. my experience of the first couple of months alone was the most intensely frightening time of my life. i felt so insecure, that i couldn't live without him, i was emotionally dependent. now i realise that his 'love' was conditional and limited, i thought that if i loved him more and cared about him and supported him it would be enough. what scares me now is why i allowed this to happen. my parents weren't abusive, but my father was emotionally 'remote'. a workaholic dad, but as an adult he is more 'there' for me than ever, but still has great trouble expressing and managing his emotions. my mother is a bit of a control freak and my father is quite passive in the face of her demands. but it didn't seem pathological to me. i would appreciate any feedback. ingrid

B1: Submit
Date: Wednesday, September 05, 2001

S1

The guy who wrote this article must know my father personally, because he's described him in perfect and exact detail. - Carolynn

B1: Submit
Date: Thursday, September 27, 2001

S1

Very, very interesting. This article was forwarded to me by a family member because we feel that my sister is being verbally abused by her husband. The world revolves around him and she continually dances to his tune, has to justify herself and her actions to him and is kept on her toes not knowing what to expect at any given time. Is there anything I can say or do to help? Thank you so much.

B1: Submit
Date: Friday, October 26, 2001

S1

Question: If narcissist discards wife as secondary NS because she won't play ball anymore and wants her life back, and narcissist returns to mother, will this mean he will have a narcisstic injury and trauma or not?

B1: Submit
Date: Wednesday, November 07, 2001

S1

Very true... some exaggerations and some stereotyping, but nevertheless very true... Question: how do you best divorce a narcissist if you have been a victim of his abuse (and are maybe an inverted narcissist)? - Can we divide properties and debts? - Is it best to sell everything therefore no (financial) ties? Thanks

B1: Submit
Date: Wednesday, November 07, 2001

S1

Very true... some exaggerations and some stereotyping, but nevertheless very true... Question: how do you best divorce a narcissist if you have been a victim of his abuse (and are maybe an inverted narcissist)? - Can we divide properties and debts? - Is it best to sell everything therefore no (financial) ties? Thanks

B1: Submit
Date: Friday, March 22, 2002

S1

This is an intriguing article. My father-in-law, after a lifetime of all types of the above-mentioned abuses to his wife and children, now, at age 73, recklessly ran down my mother-in-law in the driveway. She had a fractured skull and a closed-head injury and almost died. Now that she is safely with another family member and we have pretty much forced my father-in-law into therapy, he IS saying we're "trying to drive him nuts."

My question: is there hope?

B1: Submit
Date: Monday, April 22, 2002

S1

Yes, Would munchousen by proxy also be part of a narcissistic disorder?

B1: Submit
Date: Friday, June 28, 2002

S1

HELLO, Thank you for your intelligent article. My therapist and I have been exploring whether I am in a Borderline(me)-Narcicist(him) obsession. I understand the severity of full-blown personailty disorders (I work in a locked psych facility) compared to more functional ends of the spectrum of these types. I can barely see it, because when I think of Broderline I think of cutting/suicide rather than just terror of abandonment (me), and I have a hard time believeing he is actually Narciscistic-type, I don't know how to watch for it and find the list of criteria more dysfuncitonal than he is....? Mostly he has a work persona of being able to have empathy, but in his private relationships will insult/ignore things very dear to me. I stay, so that says something about me (Borderline-self), where can I learn more about more subtle/less severe personality-types so I can convice myself this really is a dynamic I'm living inside of? Thank you.

B1: Submit
Date: Tuesday, August 06, 2002

S1

I recently separated al last my narcissit wife , what a story and what a nightmare , I am wiiling to wite it down in order to prevent many other , but for now I am interested in Buying Dr Vaknin´s Book , is there any ay I can find it in Mexico ?? Thank you for yor advice , my heart and mind , and patientes really appreciate it... Dr. Enrique Martin del Campo emartindelcampo@yahoo.com

B1: Submit
Date: Saturday, November 23, 2002

S1

This is so right on the money for my husband, whom I'm separted from but at the same time reading this has scared me into deep fear. How does one escape all of this. I have a 1 year old little boy with this creature. How will I survive.

B1: Submit
Date: Wednesday, December 25, 2002

S1

Wow! This is exactly the life I have lead.At my father's knee I learned that rejection and withholding of affection was "love".And duplicated it in each of my marriages. Finally I left everything behind, confused and unhappy. Not knowing why.Being away gives one new perspective. I can't believe I let myself live like that. Am on the mend. Life is getting much better.

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Date: Saturday, December 28, 2002

S1

Yes, but how do I get OUT?

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Date: Saturday, December 28, 2002

S1

this is an exact description of my marriage to a man who clearly loves only himself I have had counselling for the past year ........ i am amazed , after all my agonized moanings in her office, that my counseller never picked up just what the heck has been going on..... it seems that the current trend to tell us women to 'own our own stuff' is causing those of us in 'relationship' with people like you have described here....to continue writhing in agony trying to fix ourselves so that the bastards we are married to will stop hurting us and love as as they seemd to when we initially fell into their trap.... I am so full of anger towards my husband ........ as i come to realise what he has been doing to me........ He actually told me the other week that over the years he has 'deliberately confused me so that I would be unable to focus and ask him alot of questions about his behaviour/intention' (by the way, this wasn't said with remorse .it was just a 'fact' he chose to regurgitate)......... I have frequently asked him to leave ........ but he keeps on coming back ..... and as we have children it is difficult for me to get rid of him (apart from anything else I am totally financially dependant on him)...... it is very painful to realise that for the past 8 years I have been abused rather than loved ........ and I have been wondering why, when I have recently explained to him that his 'power over tactics' have really ruined our marriage and that I am so angry with him...... why he acts as if it's no great revelation ........ now I can see ......... It is no great revelation to HIM ...... he always knew what he was doing .......... it was only me that was a confused mess of emotional hell trying to get the pain to stop...... Now I have a question or two ....... firstly I am very worried that one of my children is just like her father...... Is this condition hereditory ......... can I help her not to become just like he is? secondly ........ i have changed for the worse, myself ........ I used to be placid and cheerful....brave in the face of disaster...soldiering on ...making the best of anything life threw at me ..... Now I am furious....... prone to lose my temper quickly......full of anger and hatred....... I wake up with feeling of anxiety rather than my previous 'happy' self........ I feel like I am on the brink of insanity... How do I get my old self back..... How do I get rid of him without the feeling that I am destroying my world and that of my children(I know that sounds really strange when he is the cause of such agony and no, I do not enjoy the agony in some bizare twisted mentally dreanged way...... I am refereing to the fact that I have become entirely dependant on him for just about everything .....I home educate my children and do not have a career....removing him from my life will give me emotional peace but will hurt the children and cause us financial hell....... aklso he says that if he does leave then he is going home , to Africa and (threats of desertion)so it is very difficult for me.....I have little or no support around me anymore and I also feel like such an idiot..... having put my life in the dustbin ....he can leave me and carry on 'enjoying himself' but I will be totally stuffed. ...... is there a step by step plan towards freedom??????

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Date: Tuesday, December 31, 2002

S1

does anyone get a reply on here?????????? or is the narcisist just sitting at his computer sadisticly enjoying reading about our agony?!?!?!?!?!?

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Date: Thursday, January 16, 2003

S1

Thank you thank you! I just wish I read this about a year ago. I would have (may have) understood what the !@#$ was going on, without persecuting myself as much as I did. You made it, the narcissist soooooo clear. Now I can laugh! What a freak he was. Former Victim who bailed

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Date: Thursday, January 16, 2003

S1

I am concerned about my inability to get away from "my" narcissist. We are married ten years and have already separated twice. Somehow I end up coming back. And I don't want to anymore. I read the section that starts "Why is it that the partner seeks to prolong his pain?" I don't recognize myself as an inverted narcissist, or maybe I don't really understand what that means. I have to find out why I think I deserve to live like this, and concrete ways to remove myself from the abuse. Help!!!

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Date: Sunday, March 02, 2003

S1

Wow I never knew anyone else had went threw this.I am so heartbroken, I have blamed myself for being depressed. The truth is when ever I am happy he bring's me down.In the same very way this article has explained.His family is against me,they have no idea of how I've tried to make this man happy.He hates himself.

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Date: Wednesday, April 09, 2003

S1

This is a great article. I wish I had known what I know today about Narissist people and how dangerous they are. I knew from the moment I met mine but I am considered a "nice person" and gave him a second chance. I was going through so much pain from a long term relationship with an alcohalic that I didn't see through his charm. He targeted me just like he has all of his girl friends past and present. I see the pattern now and it makes me physically ill at the sight of him. They can be so charming and wonderful when they want to but on the second hand be sooo dangerous and scary. I felt like I was living in hell and I couldn't find my way back to God. God found me and if anyone is in a relationship like the one described in this article. Run and don't give second chances, no matter how handsome and charming they are and lonely and scared you are. Being in a relationship with a Narcissitic person will only make it worse over time. I know I was in one for 7 years and it was awful. They give you the world on a carpet and then hold the carpet up and pull and they pull hard. You are never quite the same after they have trampled through your life. There is hope if you trust in God and leave and leave them behind, far Behind and focus on yourself and self care. That is the only way, you have to change the way you think about them and your situation, they rarely change, if ever. ~kelly

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Date: Monday, April 21, 2003

S1

shrekdonkey002 The narcissist hates nothing more than being disagreed with, they will go so far as to try to make you look like you are nuts by putting words in your mouth in front of others, saying things like you are incapable of moving out or getting a job, or that I should only get a job working for people I know. This works especially well, if the narcissist tries to twist your words in front of others. Don't react emotionally or get defensive, this is what the narcissist wants. Just calmly tell them that they are putting words in your mouth and it is going to stop, I calmly told the narcissist this and that I would work 5 jobs at the same time and she was not involved in this, and it wasn't her place to say anything. I didn't get defensive or react emotionally, and just calmly told the N that they were not involved and they'd better keep their opinion to themself. My grandmother usually tries to do this in front of other relatives in an attempt to keep me dependent on them because if I react, she tries to get everyone to side with her opinion on what I should do with my life. I didn't react emotionally or get defensive, my brother was in the room and she loves to play us against each other but her tactics were disabled because it didn't give her room to get others to join in. I've read that you should never defend yourself and creatively agree with them, but it really does more harm than good, whenever I try asking the narcissist to respect something, it only results in more rage because they believe they know what is best for everyone, but calmly telling them not to put words in my mouth or they are not involved works like a charm. Tip: Saying 'it's none of your business' only starts an argument, but calmly telling them that they are not involved or not to put words in your mouth works because putting words in your mouth is the Ns goal. Tone of voice does play a major part, so make sure that you do not appear reactive and just talk as if you were talking to anybody else. Narcissists thrive on drama and reactions, so by not reacting, you are not giving them what is called N supply. This doesn't necessarily stop them from trying to demean you, but it does keep you from getting pulled in.

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Date: Monday, April 21, 2003

S1

shrekdonkey002 The narcissist hates nothing more than being disagreed with, they will go so far as to try to make you look like you are nuts by putting words in your mouth in front of others, saying things like you are incapable of moving out or getting a job, or that I should only get a job working for people I know. This works especially well, if the narcissist tries to twist your words in front of others. Don't react emotionally or get defensive, this is what the narcissist wants. Just calmly tell them that they are putting words in your mouth and it is going to stop, I calmly told the narcissist this and that I would work 5 jobs at the same time and she was not involved in this, and it wasn't her place to say anything. I didn't get defensive or react emotionally, and just calmly told the N that they were not involved and they'd better keep their opinion to themself. My grandmother usually tries to do this in front of other relatives in an attempt to keep me dependent on them because if I react, she tries to get everyone to side with her opinion on what I should do with my life. I didn't react emotionally or get defensive, my brother was in the room and she loves to play us against each other but her tactics were disabled because it didn't give her room to get others to join in. I've read that you should never defend yourself and creatively agree with them, but it really does more harm than good, whenever I try asking the narcissist to respect something, it only results in more rage because they believe they know what is best for everyone, but calmly telling them not to put words in my mouth or they are not involved works like a charm. Tip: Saying 'it's none of your business' only starts an argument, but calmly telling them that they are not involved or not to put words in your mouth works because putting words in your mouth is the Ns goal. Tone of voice does play a major part, so make sure that you do not appear reactive and just talk as if you were talking to anybody else. Narcissists thrive on drama and reactions, so by not reacting, you are not giving them what is called N supply. This doesn't necessarily stop them from trying to demean you, but it does keep you from getting pulled in.

B1: Submit
Date: Monday, April 21, 2003

S1

shrekdonkey002 The narcissist hates nothing more than being disagreed with, they will go so far as to try to make you look like you are nuts by putting words in your mouth in front of others, saying things like you are incapable of moving out or getting a job, or that I should only get a job working for people I know. This works especially well, if the narcissist tries to twist your words in front of others. Don't react emotionally or get defensive, this is what the narcissist wants. Just calmly tell them that they are putting words in your mouth and it is going to stop, I calmly told the narcissist this and that I would work 5 jobs at the same time and she was not involved in this, and it wasn't her place to say anything. I didn't get defensive or react emotionally, and just calmly told the N that they were not involved and they'd better keep their opinion to themself. My grandmother usually tries to do this in front of other relatives in an attempt to keep me dependent on them because if I react, she tries to get everyone to side with her opinion on what I should do with my life. I didn't react emotionally or get defensive, my brother was in the room and she loves to play us against each other but her tactics were disabled because it didn't give her room to get others to join in. I've read that you should never defend yourself and creatively agree with them, but it really does more harm than good, whenever I try asking the narcissist to respect something, it only results in more rage because they believe they know what is best for everyone, but calmly telling them not to put words in my mouth or they are not involved works like a charm. Tip: Saying 'it's none of your business' only starts an argument, but calmly telling them that they are not involved or not to put words in your mouth works because putting words in your mouth is the Ns goal. Tone of voice does play a major part, so make sure that you do not appear reactive and just talk as if you were talking to anybody else. Narcissists thrive on drama and reactions, so by not reacting, you are not giving them what is called N supply. This doesn't necessarily stop them from trying to demean you, but it does keep you from getting pulled in.

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Date: Tuesday, May 27, 2003

S1

Where is the hope for the one who is a "narcissist"?

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Date: Thursday, July 10, 2003

S1

I have just read the most eerie thing in my life. This is us.