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Comments for My Forgiveness

Comments:  My Forgiveness

Material posted here is intended for educational purposes only, and must not be considered a substitute for informed advice from your own health care provider.

Courtesy of Dr. Irene Matiatos   Copyrightę 1998-2005. The material on this website may be distributed freely for non-commercial or educational purposes provided that author credit is given. For commercial distribution, please contact the author at Doc@drirene.com

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Tuesday, February 01, 2005
10:53 AM

Hi Eva, Your story touched me because it seems very familiar to me (and I benefited from Dr. Irene's advice to you too :-)). One very concrete thing comes to mind that you can do and that is to keep the horseback riding going (or start again) - as your thing. You sound like a fair and reasonable person, so work out a fair and reasonable agreement about when you can go - but fair to both of you. Having a corner in you life that is yours gives you so much strength, I've found. Welcome to the CatBox too, if you decide to join us ! Cyn

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Tuesday, February 01, 2005
01:44 PM

HI Eva, I know how confusing this can all be. Abusers spin our heads around and we end up feeling like something is wrong w/ us! Your H is very controlling and has not accepted that he is abusive. You forgiving him will not be the catalyst for him to 'change'. The catalyst to change has to come from himself, he has to be able to acknowledge the abuse, how it has affected you and do all he can to gain your forgiveness (which you may or may not be able to give him). You sound a lot like me, I also would put my ex's needs/wants/concerns/complaints in front of my own. I would feel guilty for living my own life. Remember you cannot make anyone--- happy, sad, angry OR abusive! If you decide to stay w/ him you will have to enforce boundaries w/ him and be consistent. Also you have to find your old self, the one who was self assured, that will be difficult to do if you're still together. If you have confidence you won't doubt yourself and that way, when he blames you for his feelings and actions you will be able to immediately realize he is talking a lot of bull and not take it to heart. The Verbally Abusive Relationship  by Patricia Evans is another good book that will give you validation so you don't feel like you're going crazy. Definitely come post in the CatBox too; there are many, many wise people there that are a Godsend. I wish you the best.

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Tuesday, February 01, 2005
04:40 PM

Eva, I was in your shoes a few short months ago. I, too, have been married seven years, been with my husband for ten years. I was in the same fog you are in now. YOU are not crazy. YOU are not wrong. Feelings are feelings. They are not WRONG. I've been seeing a counselor now for 5 months and he's helped me immensely. I ultimately made the choice to leave my abusive husband - this may not be the right choice for you. You need to focus on you right now and getting you better. And doing what is right for your kids. The CatBox Forum has helped me immensely also. It's comforting to know you're not alone. And you're not here!! LMB

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Thursday, February 03, 2005
08:31 AM

Hi everyone, Thanks so much for your reactions. It feels good to know I am not the only on out there! No way are you alone! Look at all the CatBoxers who fully understand what you're talking about! I was glad to start reading the book dr. Irene recommended, especially The Secret of Overcoming Verbal Abuse: Getting Off the Emotional Roller Coaster and Regaining Control of Your Life. The reason I like this book so much is that it helps you find a way out. Helps you restore your personal power in an effective way. The Evans book is a good descriptor of abuse, but you can't stop there or you risk getting stuck in your anger. Always follow the Evans book with the Ellis book.

Since I posted this things have gotten worse though. I told him about my doubts and that I might want a divorce he told me: "If you are not sure divorce will make you happy why would you do that to the children?" That made me feel so horrible and my head wouldn't stop spinning. He manipulated you. That's called a "guilt trip." He also went to my best friend to tell her, "She wants a divorce, but I am not going to give it to her." All this because he won't give up on us, never.. this scares me even more! I have asked for a time out now, where we won't discuss the situation until we have counseling again. Good idea. Even better idea: get your own therapist to help you deal with this! I feel I am on that rollercoaster, my thoughts won't stop, it literally drives me crazy. Let me rephrase that and empower you in the process: ...I am driving myself crazy. YOU are the only one in control of your craziness! He can't "make" you crazy unless you let him get to you. You need to learn how not to be so susceptible to his ploys. I need to regain control over my life, Yes! I know this this involves two beautiful children who's lives will be forever changed. He says he needs more time to show me he has changed and that for the sake of the children I need to give him that. You are calling the shots lady. You don't "need" to give him anything. And, let's turn it around on him: Tell him, "Yes, for the sake of the children, you need to demonstrate to me that you are willing to respect me. And you can do that by ... " But all that I feel is I can't trust you to change anymore. Right. He has to earn your trust. But I do realize I need to start working on what the book suggests and I am glad that I am in counseling Oh Good!!! so I can figure out why I give people that much power (I am afraid that people think bad about me, etc. Yeah! Giving everybody and their mother too much power over you, instead of letting people think what they will...) . My father had narcissistic personality disorder which explains a lot of course, and I was teased a lot in school. I am starting to see a big line in everything and hope I will break through, but that guilt feeling about the kids wow, it's powerful. eva Oh, yes, it is powerful! Get this book now: Emotional Blackmail: When the People in Your Life Use Fear, Obligation and Guilt to Manipulate You   by Dr. Susan Forward and Donna Frazier. Another excellent book to read so you don't let other people manipulate you: Ellis and Lange's How To Keep People From Pushing Your Buttons.

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Thursday, February 03, 2005
01:21 PM

Eva, I was in a similar relationship, only for 15 years. In that time, I managed to complete my BA, Teaching Credential and get my MA in Teaching, but I still did not see, or choose to admit that my husband was emotionally and verbally abusive! I opted for divorce after a year of marriage counseling during which he did not change one iota. My counselor suggested Al-anon for me and three options, one: stay and accept my husband for who he is while attending Al-anon. two: separate and continue counseling while going to Al-anon and my husband would get treatment. three: Divorce, I would continue counseling and go to Al-anon, and my husband would have to face his own demons without me. Even if you choose divorce, the co-dependency etc. will continue. You have children with the man, and as Dr. Irene pointed out, this is a long cycle, and you, like myself, are accustomed to it. It takes a long, long time to move past it. I have been working at the recovery process for 7 months, and I still struggle. The best advice I can give is to be honest with yourself, not guilty but honest. His behaviors are NOT your responsibility, hang in there and do what is best for your survival. MTerree 

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Friday, February 04, 2005
11:21 AM

One of the most important first steps to overcoming VA is to stop listening to the VAer and begin to see through the intimidation tactic without emotion. Whatever he says to you has NO VALIDITY - it's not about truth, it's about continuing to maintain control over you. In your mind say to yourself- this guy is not going to bully me any more, whatever he says is crap!!!!!!!!!!!!!! say that to yourself over and over again. Children suffer when they live with an abuser 24/7, you and they will be better off without his constant influence and their witness of his abusing their mother. Leaving him will be good for the family in the long run.  In less angry words, your husband is way too good at manipulating you - and you let him.

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Saturday, February 05, 2005
09:44 PM

February 5, 2005 (Long, sad tale) Dear Dr. Irene, I always have taken it personally when my AM drew away from me. (I guess I still do.)  ...content deleted by Doc... I hope this wasn't too long but I really wanted to tell my story and I feel very depressed. Thanks for listening. I would love to here your interpretation on this. Erika

Dear Erika, this is Eva's board, so here we respond to her and focus wholly on her. Sorry; I had to delete your post. Please feel free to get your own board or post in the CatBox.

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Monday, February 07, 2005
11:31 AM

Erika, Honey - the problem is not getting him back, it's why would you want to. The guy has problems that are not going to change. He is attached to you on some level, but he just can't go the distance and he knows it. There's an addictive quality to the relationship for both of you, but neither of you are meeting each other's needs. Please- let this guy go for good. You deserve so so much better. And you are sweet for caring about Erika.

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Tuesday, February 08, 2005
02:46 AM

Let's please remember this thread is for Eva. The CatBox is the best place to go. Erika, I hope you can join us there! Eva, I just wanted to reiterate your children may be far more effected in a negative way by staying with an abuser than by them living with one healthy parent that teaches respect and nurturing. Please join us in the catbox! Yes! Thank you.

My warmest thanks and good wishes to you Eva and to all the friends who took the time to reply here. Dr. Irene, February 8, 2005.

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Wednesday, February 09, 2005
03:29 PM

OMG, I really feel for you and I can totally relate to what you are going through. I thought for a minute you were talking about my Ex/BF for the last 4 years. I feel you got to the point that I was at 5 weeks ago. Nothing left to say or not worth saying because you are tired of the fight to be heard. Nothing you can say or do at this point will change him, your exhausted in every area <Physical, Mental, financial..... You have made a step in the right direction by posting on here. You will continue to get the support from people like me who have been through abuse and can realate to most of what you went through and say" I've been through that" and probably tell you some other things you forgot to mention happened. You have be strong for yourself and your children. Don't let him blame you, they are really good at twisting words to make you feel less than. Stay strong, keep posting kiwi

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Wednesday, February 09, 2005
03:29 PM

OMG, I really feel for you and I can totally relate to what you are going through. I thought for a minute you were talking about my Ex/BF for the last 4 years. I feel you got to the point that I was at 5 weeks ago. Nothing left to say or not worth saying because you are tired of the fight to be heard. Nothing you can say or do at this point will change him, your exhausted in every area <Physical, Mental, financial..... You have made a step in the right direction by posting on here. You will continue to get the support from people like me who have been through abuse and can realate to most of what you went through and say" I've been through that" and probably tell you some other things you forgot to mention happened. You have be strong for yourself and your children. Don't let him blame you, they are really good at twisting words to make you feel less than. Stay strong, keep posting kiwi

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Thursday, February 10, 2005
02:53 AM

Eva, your circumstances are very similar to the ones I found myself in a year ago. I am American, met and married my British husband in a short span of time. I moved to Germany, where he is stationed in the Army. I went from being an independent, secure, financially self sufficient, bubbly and confident woman with close friends to being rather isolated, without my own money and no car, no job, no knowledge of the local area, etc. Like you, I was soley dependent on my husband for most, if not all of my needs. Now, I can see some mistakes I made, but at the time I was feeling quite depressed and found it impossible to pull myself together and get out in the world and make myself happy instead of waiting on my husband to do it for me. We fought, and fought, and fought. He would get very angry and go off to the bar or to his friends' homes, leaving me at home to pick up the pieces. I had zero emotional support from him. He frequently said that I had had enough time to get settled in and shouldn't be feeling so bad. (!!!) Fast forward to a year later... It has taken a lot of work from both of us, but we are in a much better place. My husband admits it took him a while to adjust to being married, and he is working on some stuff from his past with a counselor. He is willing to do whatever it takes to have a happy healthy marriage, even if it means sorting through all the yucky stuff he has kept buried all his life. He knows that this is a long process, but he says that he likes where he is going and wants to continue with the counseling. This indicates to me that he is feeling better on the inside. The counselor has given us a few practical tools to use. Now I feel safe to talk about my feelings without him getting defensive and angry. He is learning to feel comfortable being a bit vunerable and talk about his feelings. For me, I was fortunate to find work that I enjoy and that has made a big difference in the way I feel. I feel more like my old self- confident and strong. I have my own money and friends, which cured the helplessness I felt last year. We still have a lot of work to do, but we are hopeful. For you, Eva, I know how isolating it feels to be away from your home country and things you find familiar. Plus, you have children to think about and care for. I don't think you "focusing on the negative" is the issue (my husband used to say that to me, as well!). Your feelings are a symptom of the treatment you have been receiving, not the other way around! It helped me monumentally to focus on my life in terms of "me" instead of "the marriage". After dealing with the problems for so long, you need an emotional break. I really can't add to Dr. Irene's advice, but I wanted you to know that I understand how you are feeling.

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Friday, February 11, 2005
02:46 PM

I m in the same situation Eva and I understand what you are talking about as if we were married to same man:-) same tactics and manipulations...etc There are two alternatives to solve your dilemma: 1- Divorce and start a new life. this can be painful in the short term but a better solution in the long run. 2- Stay in the relationship but be aware that it s never too late to set boundaries and stand up for your right to be respected. don't get me wrong here: you will almost for sure never get this loving balanced relationship you re longing for but at least, it will be harder for him and less rewarding to abuse you. The second alternative can be like an uphill battle. however, the good news is this kind of abusive men usually don t like you to leave them and will cling to you even more when you re on the verge to leave (and usually they think they made your self-esteem low enough you can t have the courage to leave them); so you will have the upper hand if he sees you re strong enough and ready to leave at any time if he doesn t stop bullying you - you make it clear - in a strong decisive tone- that you are ready to go and will not SETTLE FOR ANYTHING LESS THAN COMPLETE RESPECT. at that time he will notice that his tactics did not work - and his abusive behavior doesn t get him the same gratification of seeing you upset and weak- and thus may not abuse as much as before!. On emore piece of advice: stand up for your right, ignore him, yell at him, set boundaries, and don t feel guilty about him getting mad. use his same weapons. thsi can be hard as it requires you to be tougher and less sensitive than you really are - in which case - again- you are not yourself... I m sorry to say that...but there is no miracle solution to deal with abusive husbands...my solution can help in the short run and give you time before you sort out your problems, get unhooked and get ready to leave. Good luck

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Monday, February 14, 2005
11:26 AM

Eva: My VAH is also very controlling. He actually took the spoon out of my hand while I was stirring tapioca pudding (after I had stood there for 10 minutes; doing all the tedious stirring "work"). He stirred it a couple times and declared it "done". It wasn't done, but he knows everything. He has opinions about how the dishes should go in the dishwasher, how long to dry the clothes, etc., etc., etc. He is the son of an obese, controlling and verbally abusive man who, before being addicted to food, was addicted to alcohol. He also tried to say that the only problems he had were the ones I caused. And on and on and on... He hasn't changed much, but I have. After 5 years of conjoling, begging, going to marriage counselors, etc., I finally started to have some light bulb moments. Beside therapy, I started to talk to other people, I read books and read them again. I make mistakes and get up and try again. I got involved in hypnosis. I did age regression stuff. I had to bring up the old baggage with the fears and emotions and deal with them. The biggest thing that is different is that I am stronger. I am not willing to take his crap any more and I think he is beginning to realize it. I wanted to be strong enough to stand on my own. I thought I needed to get out of the marriage to do it. So many times, I wanted to run away but I knew that I could leave him and get involved with the same thing over again if I didn't learn to respect myself and set up boundaries. That was the hardest thing to do. I had to put al my patience to the test. Not patience with him, but patience with me. I wanted to "get over this overnight". Doesn't work that way. Takes lots of work. Work on you; not on him (trust me, I still go back to analyzing him periodically, usually an avoidance practice not to have to deal with my own fear). But I do know that learning to believe, trust, respect yourself is the most important issues with which to deal. If he changes, then he changes on his own. That forgiveness crap is just another control tactic. If you do this, then I will do that...B.S. A better way to look at it: I will do whatever is necessary to make my life and the lives of those around me better. My behavior is not dependent upon your behavior. He is a bully in sheep's clothing; dependent upon you; giving you his power so that he can blame you if things don't go right. Unfortunately, you are also giving him yours. Take back your power.

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Saturday, February 19, 2005
09:17 AM

Your story is on a parallel with my life ... only my time involved is not 7 years but 42. I don't even know where to begin or end. In desperation I searched the internet and I am not that computer savvy but then I came upon your story and advice from Dr. Eva. Thank you. Reading the recommended book is a start. Thank you .

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Saturday, February 19, 2005
09:18 AM

Your story is on a parallel with my life ... only my time involved is not 7 years but 42. I don't even know where to begin or end. In desperation I searched the internet and I am not that computer savvy but then I came upon your story and advice from Dr. Eva. Thank you. Reading the recommended book is a start. Thank you .

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Tuesday, February 22, 2005
04:56 AM

Dear Eva Thank you so much for writing your story - I have been going through something similar (for 19 years!). I have worked hard on self help books and courses, taken medication, prayed - I expect far more of myself than I expect of him! When I began to understand about abusive relationships, everything that has confused me for so long fell into place. Suddently it all made sense. I have no tolerance for it any more and I feel very angry. As my husband realises that I am getting a grip on things, his methods change, he knows he has to do more so I am constantly re-evaluating my position in the light of the new behaviour. It stops me from taking action. I always wanted to be married, and to stay married. I was adopted and feel that family is very important to me - having my own children has been the most wonderful thing in my life. They mean more to me than anything or anyone and my dilemma, when I have been at the point of leaving, has always been, what is best for the children. I think I have finally come to the conclusion that they have to experience some of their time living at home in an atmosphere that is not controlled by their father. They have to have some benchmark for family life other than the one they have grown up with. Then they will have some element of choice in their own lives. When I look at the aggression and lack of self confidence in one of my children though, it makes me weep, because I think for him some serious damage has been done, and I should have saved him. One thing I have learned, in my efforts to help myself, is that I am the source of my own appreciation and happiness. I am not dependent on others to give me space, or take it away, I have to make my own space. Because I believe that, I know it has to be true for my husband as well - he has to take responsibility for himself, not rely on me. I can be compassionate, even generous, but not at the expense of myself or my children. I agree with the other writer who says that she can no longer trust her partner to change, or herself to give him a fair chance. I have others telling me that actually, he won't ever really change. I am almost at the point of leaving, I can smell the sea air over the hill. I have set up some systems to support me in case I feel under threat. I'm not quite there yet. Your telling of your story has really encouraged me, so thank you so much. Good luck and take care. Judith

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Wednesday, February 23, 2005
12:49 PM

Dear Eva, You sound like a friend of mine who recently moved out west with her husband. He was suffering from a fall at work and she was foreign and had a beautiful child named A. The light of her life. I got to know her, as I was his teacher at a pre-school and noted her sons lack of energy and lethargy. I would tell her about it, cause I really loved the child too. Great kid. Well my friends husband would berate her in front of me and then put me on the spot to aggree with him. What a dick. But he could also be so damn charming and sweet and so well liked. But everything revolved around him-A was so egotistical and woe-is-me-ish. He found religion but berated his wife. I think it made him feel better for the condition he found himself in. I felt so bad for her but I didn't even acknowledge at the time that I too was in the same situation. My husband at the time was verbally abusive-still is. But I was deeply in denial. I thought it was all my fault. Maybe that is why we became friends, but it is also why we lost touch. Neither of us was being encouraged by our controlling partners to be friends. So I stopped being as outgoing as I wanted to be in order to make him not yell at me. Like that has ever worked. As I sit here, I realize for the first time how I am a victim of verbal abuse. Hard to say. And I still have trouble believing it but it's true. And God knows I am in serious pain. Hang in there and no that you are not alone-Miss A.

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Thursday, February 24, 2005
05:38 PM

One of my husbands main accuses about me is that i demand too much. When i ask him specificly what these demands are he cannot answer. I keep telling him: ALL i want is respect. Nothing more, nothing less. Just respect. But if that is too much to ask for, he has got a serious problem. And it is HIS problem. My problem is to continiue to demand respect, and to find my selfesteem and self respect so i can recognize when my boundaries are violated and continiue to demand respect and to feel that i am worth being treated good. I feel that i have two me's inside. One is thinking that i deserve more, and that i have talents and qualities that are not allowed to grow in this situation. It is the rebel me who wants to get out of the marriage. Then i have the monster-me, who tells me i deserve nothing and should feel guilt and shame and i put myself in this so now i must tolerate everything and blah blah. I try to nurture the rebel-me, and kill the monster. In our norwegian fairytales we say that if we expose the trolls and monsters for daylight they will explode. So I try to be honest with my situation and i have stopped helping my husband by hiding how he treats me. Be careful though, because when you start to grow and be stronger and demand respect, the abuse may escalate. My husband has escalated into using physical violence now, which has never happened before. And i know it is because i am getting stronger. He is loosing his control over me and he knows it. The violence has worked, i am now very careful and so small i almost dont exist, but i have a better idea about how things SHOULD be, and i try to hang onto this as my guiding star when things feels like i am stuck in a spider web. Your husband sounds a lot like mine, very manipulative, and clever with words so that you feel like you have had a mix-master inside your head after trying to talk with him. After i started to post about my experiences on the catbox forum, and the others there told me i am not crazy, but manipulated or gaslighted, i started to realize more and more what was wrong. Things which i thought was my fault or thought was normal was actually him playing games with my mind. I think the catbox has saved my sanity, if not my life. I wish you all the best for your journey to a better future. You must believe it that you deserve so much better!!! Big polarbearhug from indigo

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Friday, February 25, 2005
12:08 AM

hi dr eva, my hubby is passive/aggressive, but all i am asking from him is one kind word, and he can not give it to me. i beg for it, plead for it, and all that emanates from his mouth r nasty, malicious, and cruel words towards me. if i point this out to him, he finds a way to switch a blame to me about something that i did not do. i am continually blamed for "nothings." i decided to wax submissive in order not to fight w him. his " but u but u but u" in marital counseling leave the counselor to say, " well, both of u...yada yada yada." when i have done nothing. he is so clever and manipulative, that the marriage counselor always sees his view. i am so frustrated and saddddd about what is happening in our marriage. this "new hubby change" occurred 2 years ago. i caught him doing porn a few weeks ago, altho' is suspected this a year ago, and he even chanced it by doing it on the computers at work, along w "touching himself" too, for which i blamed myself for withholding sex, so now i'm prostituting myself for him in order to stop the porn. i am a dishrag, a mat, a piece of dust, and i, obviously, have no self esteem nor self confidence. i used to. i am a bright girl, w a BA and an MA, and i'm a teacher and a photo-journalist, and i feel like a stupid person for the way he puts me down, continually puts me down. he never never never validates me nor supports me on any issue, altho' i always support him my kids have asked him to leave many times. they r my best friends cuz they see how i am suffering. i am still endeavoring to keep this marriage together. can u help me, at all? thanx kitties

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Friday, February 25, 2005
12:08 AM

hi dr eva, my hubby is passive/aggressive, but all i am asking from him is one kind word, and he can not give it to me. i beg for it, plead for it, and all that emanates from his mouth r nasty, malicious, and cruel words towards me. if i point this out to him, he finds a way to switch a blame to me about something that i did not do. i am continually blamed for "nothings." i decided to wax submissive in order not to fight w him. his " but u but u but u" in marital counseling leave the counselor to say, " well, both of u...yada yada yada." when i have done nothing. he is so clever and manipulative, that the marriage counselor always sees his view. i am so frustrated and saddddd about what is happening in our marriage. this "new hubby change" occurred 2 years ago. i caught him doing porn a few weeks ago, altho' is suspected this a year ago, and he even chanced it by doing it on the computers at work, along w "touching himself" too, for which i blamed myself for withholding sex, so now i'm prostituting myself for him in order to stop the porn. i am a dishrag, a mat, a piece of dust, and i, obviously, have no self esteem nor self confidence. i used to. i am a bright girl, w a BA and an MA, and i'm a teacher and a photo-journalist, and i feel like a stupid person for the way he puts me down, continually puts me down. he never never never validates me nor supports me on any issue, altho' i always support him my kids have asked him to leave many times. they r my best friends cuz they see how i am suffering. i am still endeavoring to keep this marriage together. can u help me, at all? thanx kitties

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Saturday, February 26, 2005
11:58 AM

Eva, first, I'd say everything Dr. Irene said. I was married someone like this and I can now say with confidence that he fits the profile of a narcissist. I have learned from going to therapy for myself that one of my parents was also a narcissist. I didn't create a narcissist and I can't change one. I can only change myself. My spouse had a very abusive childhood. I did, too, but mine was different in terms of the age I was when it began and what I remember. I remember a lot. He claimed to remember almost nothing. Sometimes I think we are all of us walking wounded. I know I have complex PTSD and I go to therapy for myself now. I know that I cannot help a narcissist. So I don't try to help my husband anymore. I don't make any compromises, I don't yield any ground, I don't listen to any promises he makes, I don't buy anything he tries to "sell" me. I just try to help myself. My frustration level is a lot lower than it used to be, because nowadays, I'm working within the range of possibility. I'm doing things that have a reasonable chance of success, and that increase my sense of self-worth and happiness. Before, I was trying to do the impossible and I was frustrated and unhappy all the time. If there's only one suggestion I could make to you right now, it's to carry around a notepad and a pen and write things down as they are happening. When you are speaking with your spouse, and he says something, don't react immediately, just listen and write it down, and then respond, and write down what you've said, too. Write down what he says, and also, write down what he does. You know that 90% of communication is supposed to be non-verbal. So compare the verbal (what he says) with the non-verbal (what he does). Do they match? Which part do you believe in the most? Asking and answering those questions may help you with the confusion problem. If what you believe in most is what he says, why? Are you trying to believe him because you want what he says to be true? And if that's 10% of communication, what is the other 90% saying? What if his verbal representations to you are not true? What if they don't match the facts? What if they don't match his actions? Writing may help you find out what is really going on and ease your feelings of confusion and bring you new clarity. It helped me. Things didn't get the way they were in my life overnight, and they didn't get better overnight, but they have improved enormously as I've learned to work within my own limits. There are some wonderful support groups for partners of and divorcing partners of people who are narcissistic and/or borderline abusers. They've helped me understand that my reactions were normal, that my natural instincts to be loving and kind were not wrong, and that my spouse wasn't capable of appreciating or valuing me because he couldn't appreciate or value himself. There's no blame. That's helped me with goal setting, limit setting, expectations, insights, and change, and overall, becoming a happy person again. All I work on is changing me. Life is much easier these days, and I don't struggle with confusion anymore. I know I tried hard enough. I know I loved well enough. I know I'm good enough. I know I'm human. I know my spouse is, too, and I pray for him. However, I don't expect anything from him whatsoever but for him to continue to be himself. I hope to divorce him by the end of this year. Dr. Irene is pretty experienced and wise in these matters. I don't think you can go wrong by trusting her and following her advice.

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Sunday, March 06, 2005
08:19 PM

Eva, I read your story and there are so many similarities to things I experienced. There is a site www.bpdcentral.com with an excellent forum and you will find that you are certainly not alone in this experience. It seems your spouse is clearly a BPD (borderline personality disorder). In any event, the members are very supportive and identify with your situation. This is affecting your mental health and not good. You should not have to be so sad and hopeless. God Bless.

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Thursday, March 10, 2005
06:06 PM

Wow I feel what you are saying Eva...that part about how he says you have to not be cold and resentful in order for your marriage to work. You have to forgive him? I get the same speech only its...your so negative and defensive, you need to be more positive. Hearing that so much its like well there must be something to it yet what kept me wary is that feedback from friends was always .....you are the most positive person I know. I hear you, its like you think you are crazy, you can't trust your own feelings or something. I've read on this site that it refers to that controlling behavior as Mememememe. Trouble is there is no way to stop him with words. You argue with him and it only gives him the opportunity to twist your feelings and thoughts into His reality. The only thing you can do as I see it is to....stop reacting to him. That's what I've been doing these past few weeks. I don't give him my feelings or my intimate thoughts, don't tell him about my day, don't share my worries. I honest to God think he's perplexed. He's like looking at me funny trying to read through me or something. I tell him things he needs to know about our boys, or our schedules etc. I guess I just dont think I'm strong enough right now to fight against his manipulation.I say focus on yourself. But be ready for when he gets mad that you aren't giving him the validation he's wanting. When my husband starts blaming again my answer's gonna be your right I'm not too positive right now... like I said I have some things I'm working on I know I have issues with my self esteem so I dont have any answers. I'm working out everyday to lose weight, its great. I got involved in my sons soccer club. I'm making dates with my girlfriends just once a month. Going back to college in Sept to get an advanced degree. All that gets me out of the house more and way from him. Maybe he'll get it eventually maybe he won't but I can't fix it. Forget about making the marriage work, just be yourself, its HIS turn to make it work is the way I see it!!! Believe me realizing that made me sick because I have very little hope that he can see past Mememememe enough to make 'us' work. And don't get me wrong I love him, he sees what he is sometimes, his controlling/emotional abusive Mom made him damaged goods but hey I'm done paying the price of her ills. HIs only hope is to seek professional help but I can't be the one to tell him that right now. He's gotta get it. hhuuggss to ya, Browneyes

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Sunday, March 20, 2005
02:31 AM

Dear Eva, It sounds to me like you are "walking on eggshells" with this man... He is manipulative, he "idealizes" then "devalues" you...He lies and is prone to rage attacks...He is very abusive and he also fits the criteria of, "Borderline Personality Disorder"...His unsual inability so see the good in you and your children is very dangerous...There is a book called "Stop walking on eggshells" there are several internet sights that have extremely good advice for dealing with Borderline traits...and you are dealing with that I assure you...There is a saying...If you are involved with a BPD, RUN AND DON'T LOOK BACK!...Take him up on his suggestion that you can't meet someone else..and go meet someone else!!!...He is going to damage your children the same way he has hurt you... If you are prepared for things staying the way they are and graduating into probably, extreme abuse and you regreting this for the rest of your life then, stay with him...My advice is RUN AND DON'T LOOK BACK!...You are a very nice and supportive individual...there are plenty of fish in the sea and "you" are a real CATCH! Leave the SOB...he is NOT worth it...and it will get worse, not better... This is life, miracles happen only in fairy tales...The true miracle would be too see you, free and happy like you deserve to be...when malicous actions out way their words...you always listen to their actions...

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Tuesday, March 22, 2005
05:27 PM

Dear Eva, Thanks for posting up this message. I just want you to know you are not the only one going through this. I have met men previously who are manipulative and who are trying to take away my trust towards myself. For example, he was never ready for love, marriage and kids, but would claim he wanted to get me a ring after 1st week we dated (at the back of his mind, the only thing he wanted was to have sex with me). He behaved in such a way in order to "get" me, rather than loving me. He would lie, so to earn my sympathy. For example, he would lie about having a painful childhood and past in order to earn my respect towards how well he pulled himself together at the end. I did a background check on him and realize he was lying. He would confess and justify about his bad behavior in an attempt to have me back. For example, he actually has a girlfriend (which I found out later) but he never admits even when I found some evidence on. Then, he would attempt lying again, claiming this girl is manipulative and they had 3 kids together... his urge to marry me was so that I can help him earn custody. Then, later confess to me he's lying. All these patterns was a way to have me back as his girl. Then, later, he pulls the jealousy game by dating someone else who is an acquintance/friend of mine, claiming we both are from the same birth of origin. Claimed he misses me, but could not have me and that is how he is settling for something else. He pulled a string of manipulation game just hoping I would move to the same city with him (like saying what if his relationship with his girl doesn't work, we will have a chance... I immediately break it off)... A while ago he would send me messages like "I want to apologize", etc... attempt to keep in contact with me. He would also try asking us to be "friends" so we can talk about our future relationships problems with each other. In real term, this is just his another round of manipulation game. I was sick of his manipulations I just cut the tie off totally ... I grow up realizing some men (not all) can be manipulative. They play the cheating game, the jealousy game, the sympathy game, the remorse game, just to get what they want. Maybe these men deep down truely wants love and affection, but misunderstood power and control equals to love. But I do not feel it is anyone else's job to be their psychotherapist and help them. They should be the one helping themselves out, not us. We women need to treat ourselves very well and take good care of ourselves and our children. It will come in his own time when things start turning around and get better. It is certainly not our responsibilities to change them. Maybe we can forgive... but forgiveness is only about healing, letting go our pain, the pain he caused us, the pain we caused ourselves by not breaking the tie earlier. However, forgiveness and trust do not need to come hand in hand. Once a man is abusive towards us (whether it's physical or mental), that trust is gone. He only needs to realize it on his own.

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Tuesday, March 22, 2005
05:29 PM

Dear Eva, Thanks for posting up this message. I just want you to know you are not the only one going through this. I have met men previously who are manipulative and who are trying to take away my trust towards myself. For example, he was never ready for love, marriage and kids, but would claim he wanted to get me a ring after 1st week we dated (at the back of his mind, the only thing he wanted was to have sex with me). He behaved in such a way in order to "get" me, rather than loving me. He would lie, so to earn my sympathy. For example, he would lie about having a painful childhood and past in order to earn my respect towards how well he pulled himself together at the end. I did a background check on him and realize he was lying. He would confess and justify about his bad behavior in an attempt to have me back. For example, he actually has a girlfriend (which I found out later) but he never admits even when I found some evidence on. Then, he would attempt lying again, claiming this girl is manipulative and they had 3 kids together... his urge to marry me was so that I can help him earn custody. Then, later confess to me he's lying. All these patterns was a way to have me back as his girl. Then, later, he pulls the jealousy game by dating someone else who is an acquintance/friend of mine, claiming we both are from the same birth of origin. Claimed he misses me, but could not have me and that is how he is settling for something else. He pulled a string of manipulation game just hoping I would move to the same city with him (like saying what if his relationship with his girl doesn't work, we will have a chance... I immediately break it off)... A while ago he would send me messages like "I want to apologize", etc... attempt to keep in contact with me. He would also try asking us to be "friends" so we can talk about our future relationships problems with each other. In real term, this is just his another round of manipulation game. I was sick of his manipulations I just cut the tie off totally ... I grow up realizing some men (not all) can be manipulative. They play the cheating game, the jealousy game, the sympathy game, the remorse game, just to get what they want. Maybe these men deep down truely wants love and affection, but misunderstood power and control equals to love. But I do not feel it is anyone else's job to be their psychotherapist and help them. They should be the one helping themselves out, not us. We women need to treat ourselves very well and take good care of ourselves and our children. It will come in his own time when things start turning around and get better. It is certainly not our responsibilities to change them. Maybe we can forgive... but forgiveness is only about healing, letting go our pain, the pain he caused us, the pain we caused ourselves by not breaking the tie earlier. However, forgiveness and trust do not need to come hand in hand. Once a man is abusive towards us (whether it's physical or mental), that trust is gone. He only needs to realize it on his own.

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Monday, March 28, 2005
03:01 PM

Dear Eva! Thank you for sharing your story with us. And hi everyone going through this dreadful and painful business called verbal abuse. I read your comments and it feels like I know all of it inside and out. It is 18 years now since it all started. 18 years of confusion, anger, endless arguments etc etc, and nothing is getting better. The more I question the situation and express my wiews and understanding of it all the worse it gets. I am 50 years old this year and have promised myself to change the situation, one way ot the other. However, the situation is definately getting worse. Communication has broken down completely. I am know the ego maniac no:1 and whatever I say is not worth considering. I understand that I have become more "ego" oriented but I had to take another route. Earlier I was walking on eggshells every day. Always tense, never relaxed and of course never happy. This change I made from being submissive and unhappy to more assertive and strong has turned this relationship into a nightmare. I did not think it was going to be easy to change the balance but did not expect such coldness. It is a very sad feeling that I have never realy existed in his life, but it is no way back and that is the most comforting thought. Love to all of you.

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Tuesday, April 05, 2005
02:32 PM

Dear Eva: I am married to a man very similar to your H. We have been married for 2.5 years now with two daughters 2 and 6 mos. When you describe his constant criticism and control of every little thing you do, it sounds very familiar. What is familiar also is his manipulation of you through guilt and obligation. I am now well on the path to recovering from my codependency. You may wish to look at why you left Europe and everything you knew to be with this man, and why you feel you need to take care of him emotionally. At this point, I do the same, but every time, I at least catch myself and name what I am engaged in: codependency. I am teaching myself to go through the very uncomfortable feeling of knowing he is upset at me because I am not doing what he wants me to do, and, instead of trying to fix it, let it be, and let him "cook in his own juices." His pushing you to forgive him seems to me to be just part of the same framework of control that he has been using on you for years. In fact, it doesn't seem to me that he is changing much. Keep working on yourself, and, in my view, keep a daily journal where he can't have access to it. This has helped me tremendously with seeing the patterns for what they are. Don't be engaged in what he feels, whether he wants your forgiveness, or anything else. What he wants is no important. How you feel now is.

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Tuesday, April 12, 2005
12:07 PM

Dear Eva: Let me tell you what is possible on the other side of all that controlling, verbal abuse and guilt. I believe your husband is my ex-husband's twin brother! My father was verbally and physically abusive as well. I read Melanie Beatty's "Codependent No More" and it literally saved my sanity. I used it as a springboard for reading countless other books and each book just proved what I believed to be was true. One answer for me was attending codependent anynomous meetings for a long time. (Alanon is a good help group if a CA meeting is not available in your area. Many alcoholics exhibit the type of behavior your husband does, so much of the group work is the same) Read the 12 Steps - over and over. Perhaps group therapy with a emphasis on these behaviors. Just remember, you are not alone and you do not have to be alone. No matter what he says to you, you are precious in God's sight and your value is undiminished. Good luck and God bless you. Lucia M.

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Tuesday, May 03, 2005
01:27 AM

Dear Eva, This may be a jumbled mess I am sorry your letter touched my heart and makes me teary to think you suffered in this way. I am thankful that you shared your feelings and that shows the strength of your spirit and your will to LIVE. I am having trouble pulling out of a relationship like this "online" but I think you are so brave and smart for seeing things more clearly now and knowing you are a good and wonderful person and deserve to be treated with respect. Respect yourself and your children by acknowledging his faults and understanding it is in your best interest for you and your children to move out of this relationship. I noticed more and more my online friends behavior was similar to my mothers, the anger, not accepting responsibility for abuse, ability to lie, no remorse, no empathy, spoiled and never satisfied, the need to cut down someone or belittle anyone just because they were angry at life or felt they deserved to be happy and you were supposed to "MAKE" them happy. Only their way is the correct way to do something and it can change at a moments notice. IF you bring it up that one behavior isn't consistent with a past behavior or rule they made up they go nuts... Unusual rules about money or anything would be made up on the fly but didn't apply to him. Anyway I know this isn't about me it is about you and your lovely children. I wish for you to think and go look into a mirror. You are living and breathing and changing. There is little time on this precious earth and you deserve to be able to think for yourself and feel good about yourself. You are responsible for YOUR happiness and somehow hopefully you will have financial stability to move on. I think it is possible for some people to either by biology or nurture to just not care or have empathy towards others. Somehow they can fake it but I am sure your gut instinct sees through that and something deep inside you tries to protect you from individuals like this. I don't think that medication nor therapy can genuinely effect someone whom thinks they are far superior and have no conscience. You can pray, hope, wish, treat but honestly I don't even think a world disaster or scare of life nor limb could make someone like that change for anything. They have something burning within themselves and feel no contentment. Money, toys, tools, gifts, tv, entertainment...the works will always be needed to keep them occupied and that is all it will do because inside they have nothing. I spent time trying to figure out WHY...do these people behave the way they do and HOW can I PERSONALLY make life better for them or help. Meanwhile my goals were lost, my health began to fade. I was athletic, vibrant, and had much joy for life and I almost think this attracts people like this....I went to the Dr. and was prescribed welbutrin, zoloft, paxil...after trying the first medicine maybe one half of a pill it was so strong that I felt I couldn't take any more and would ask for a "lighter" or different one. I personally couldn't take any of the medications as it made my head hurt something awful and I was just too afraid to. I started to withdraw from social things and eat less, sleep less, question more, wonder too long, and when "NOW" I decided there is just nothing I can do that won't be contradicted or turned in some unusual twist just to stomp on me..."until they get attention or what they want"... I decided to not engage in the behavior that would harm me which is talk less and try to move on. I got a camera and started taking pictures of all the beautiful spring creatures, bugs, plants and find joy in the littlest things like I always have. I am trying to figure out how to say goodbye or have the strength to move away entirely from the relation. I am not pleased that I was naive and believed lies and was manipulated and am. I felt much anger at first and let me tell you please try to temper your anger and let the joy of life shine in to your heart because it is just to short to miss or continue missing in the state that you may be in. Blessings and Strength to you Eva.

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Sunday, May 08, 2005
10:42 AM

Dear Eva, I was in the same exact abusive relationship you are in. Mine lasted for 16 yrs. I thought this man really loved me. We had the house etc. kind of lifestyle. I found out about his affair via email. I had a gut instinct. I then filed for divorce. But only had just started being strong. I had several health problems in our marriage, aches and pains, intestinal stuff. Now that I am divorced from him I have no problems. It will be tough. You are going to have to find a core of strength in you that you don't think exists. It does!! Believe it!! You must learn you are worth more than how he treats you. You are a valuable person that has thoughts and opinions and makes mistakes which is all okay. Know life away from him will only have positive effect on your life. Never let him win!! Never let him take you away. That is what happened to me. I lost myself. And I am only starting to find myself now!! Also know there are GOOD men out there who will treat a lady right. It is not time for you to get in another relationship but it is time for you to understand not all men are like your husband. Do not hurt others for the pain and hurt that your husband has inflicted on you. Make sure to have lots of support from family and friends and coworkers if possible. If you are not close to his family then cutting off communication with them might be for the best. My mother in law couldn't accept how her son treated me. She defended him. I can no longer talk to her. Work on yourself - writing is an extremely theraputic way of dealing with all of your feelings. If you love this man it is hard but NEVER go back to him. NEVER let those negative comments get to you. My ex just recently picked up his son for a vacation. He had overheard me talking to my sister about a gentleman i have been seeing. His comment was You should charge for your phone number but don't become a slut" . I now can deal with this. I stand up for myself but it falls on deaf ears. He will never "get it". So I am learning how to accept this and move on with my life. At some point you will feel so FREE!! Life will become exciting, and happy once again. I have found staying in the negative feelings while trying to heal is not the most positive way to heal. I have healed more from writing my feelings then from talking non stop about everything negative. However, everyone heals in their own way. Also read the books Men who Hate Women and the Women that Love Them. And Codependent No More, Love is Letting Go of Fear. Please feel free to contact me via email at impuzzled2003@yahoo.com. My name is Sharon.

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Sunday, May 08, 2005
01:37 PM

Hello Eva, Your letter was very moving and I hope that your situation has improved. Reading your letter had such profound impact on me because it sounded like you were describing my father pefectly. I've watched him do this to my mom and he even did it to me. I've even dated guys that are like this. I am now 26 years old and i've found a man who is really good to me and for me. He is sweet and caring and stable and he's always showing me how good a real man can be. You can never have all those years back that you spent unhappy, but you can move forward and become strong and happy again. You deserve it -- your children deserve it. All the best wishes and deepest prayers for you. You sound like such a lovely, intelligent and sensitive person. I'm sure that if you had the courage to ask for help by writing this letter, you have the courage to do whatever you have to do to create the good, healthy life that you deserve. Take Care, Jules

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Sunday, May 22, 2005
07:00 PM

you hit the nail on the head. one thing about my husband that can drive me crazy is this...if i say, i am going on a diet, etc. he;ll wait about a week, then go whole hog. he is boastful about his accomplishment, and i stop doing what i intended. i don't think he is intenetionally trying to sabotage my efforts, but after 21 years, i'm starting to question. Also, i do on-line banking, so he often complains that i can tell the minute he's spent a dime. and i can! today, he went to a ball game with friends, $125. they went out to dinner,and i see another $125 on the credit card...he always has to pay. i am sure the guys paid their fair share, but i'll never see the money. I shop at the clearance rack at walmart, and he's spending $250 on a day out witht he guys. i knew he'd spend at least $100, but he never said, oh by the way, i'm taking an extra $100 for the day. I make a decent salary, about $20000 less than him, but i should be entitled to my say.

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Saturday, June 11, 2005
10:30 PM

Thanks Eva, reading about your relationship is like reading about my own. its helped me to see the similarities. thank you agian. I hope everything works out in your best intrests. Lilly

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Wednesday, July 13, 2005
11:01 AM

Dear Eva, Thank you for sharing in such a beautiful way. I hope you've taken Dr. Irene's comments to heart and rescue yourself.

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Wednesday, July 27, 2005
06:08 PM

I have just ended a relationship with a man, after learning second piece of information I consider important that he withheld from me and after I heard the same excuse for the second time: "You did not ask me - that is why I did not tell you this information!" I feel better for knowing that I do not have to put up with something like that and that I deserve more. Unlike Eva - I have learnt it after 3 months only - so it is easy for me to leave him. My advice for her is: make a decission to end the relationship and move out and start new life. If he wants you back he should get professional help and prove he is ready to change. If he does not realize that he has a problem - do not waste your life on him. Get your children out of this unhealthy situation. Work on your selfesteem.

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Thursday, November 17, 2005
04:33 PM

Dear Eva,I too I'am married to a passive agressive man.{Eighteen years of insanity}My suggestion to you is fight back or get out!I don't mean to be so blunt about it but I can tell you from experience their plan is to keep you in constant turmoil.I had four children when I found out what kind of person I was really married to.I made a decision to fight back and get my children raised.This is not for everyone nor does it come without consequence.I myself must be crazy for taking on this task.This is gonna sound sick but you have to lower yourself down to their level ,and learn how to play the game better .I call it putting on my suit of armor {NO TEARS ALLOWED}Learn key words to fight back with.Example go get some help,I don't have time for your games, go put your nose in the corner,,I'll make you a brownie botton tomorrow,don't you have some sports show to watch or somthing?No rewards for bad behavior.You control intimacy,{if any}.Becoming the kind of person you can't stand might not be for you,in that case my suggestion to you is get out as fast as you can.They don't change you do.God Bless

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Monday, November 21, 2005
12:35 PM

Dear Eva, i want to thank you for your post. and all the other woman's stories i've read so far. finally i can put my finger on what the hell has been wrong with my relationship for the past 5 years. I copied, cut and pasted some of you thoughts into my journal. Lately it is hard for me to find words for how i am feeling. i find it very encouraging and hopeful to hear stories from other woman. One of the comments that dr. irene made to you that really stuck in my mind is that "you can forgive but you must never forget" wow! for some reason i always seem to forget how bad it is and then BAM he hits me without even hitting me, ya know what i mean. hand in there chick a dee, you are doing the right thing. Jenn

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Friday, December 09, 2005
05:01 PM

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Wednesday, March 01, 2006
05:41 AM

Eva, I feel absolutely terrible for you. My wife e-mailed this article to me and said that she feels very similar to how you feel. I know where I went wrong and which lines I crossed. Like your husband, I had a messed up childhood. I was utterly neglected by my parents in most areas; hygiene and responsibility were the biggest two. I was also molested several times in my youth (6-9). Once by a boy my age and once by a cousin that was much older. I got this from a sexual assault reference manual and found that EVERY single thing on both lists does or has applied to me: Children may exhibit the following physical and psychological effects of being victims of child sex abuse: • Fear of being touched, left alone, certain places. • Regression to infantile behavior, excessive masturbation. • Sleep disturbances. • Clinging, whining, social withdrawal. • Explicit sexual knowledge, behavior, language. • Agitation, hyperactivity/irritability, running away, truancy, delinquency. • Poor self image, change in school performance, depression, chemical abuse, and suicide. With counseling and support from family members, many of these symptoms and behaviors can be relieved and stopped. Long-term effects of undisclosed and untreated child sexual abuse can contribute to: • Marital relationship problems. • Patterns of exploitative relationships. • Sexual problems, such as aversion to sex or compulsive sex. • Obsessive/compulsive problems. • Low self-esteem from hidden shame and guilt. • Depression and suicide tendencies. ---------------------------------------------- It took me many many years to figure out the cause of some of my behaviors. Unfortunately, my wife and I married prior to me dealing with my issues so my resolution has in a lot of ways come at her expense. You are correct in saying that your husband has unresolved issues. He needs to find out what they are and begin to heal...but not at your expense anymore. If you are willing to wait for him to fix himself that is perfectly fine. If you are not willing to wait that is also perfectly fine. It is YOUR choice and YOUR heart. I hope that you find peace and happiness. ~Adam

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Wednesday, March 01, 2006
06:02 AM

Eva, I feel absolutely terrible for you. My wife e-mailed this article to me and said that she feels very similar to how you feel. I know where I went wrong and which lines I crossed. Like your husband, I had a messed up childhood. I was utterly neglected by my parents in most areas; hygiene and responsibility were the biggest two. I was also molested several times in my youth (6-9). Once by a boy my age and once by a cousin that was much older. I got this from a sexual assault reference manual and found that EVERY single thing on both lists does or has applied to me: Children may exhibit the following physical and psychological effects of being victims of child sex abuse: • Fear of being touched, left alone, certain places. • Regression to infantile behavior, excessive masturbation. • Sleep disturbances. • Clinging, whining, social withdrawal. • Explicit sexual knowledge, behavior, language. • Agitation, hyperactivity/irritability, running away, truancy, delinquency. • Poor self image, change in school performance, depression, chemical abuse, and suicide. With counseling and support from family members, many of these symptoms and behaviors can be relieved and stopped. Long-term effects of undisclosed and untreated child sexual abuse can contribute to: • Marital relationship problems. • Patterns of exploitative relationships. • Sexual problems, such as aversion to sex or compulsive sex. • Obsessive/compulsive problems. • Low self-esteem from hidden shame and guilt. • Depression and suicide tendencies. ---------------------------------------------- It took me many many years to figure out the cause of some of my behaviors. Unfortunately, my wife and I married prior to me dealing with my issues so my resolution has in a lot of ways come at her expense. You are correct in saying that your husband has unresolved issues. He needs to find out what they are and begin to heal...but not at your expense anymore. If you are willing to wait for him to fix himself that is perfectly fine. If you are not willing to wait that is also perfectly fine. It is YOUR choice and YOUR heart. I hope that you find peace and happiness. ~Adam

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Thursday, March 16, 2006
12:52 AM

I am so happy that I have found this web site. I too am married to a passive aggressive, I am in my late 50's, he is in his late 60's, we will have been married for four years this April. He was a widower and I was a divcorcee. We both have grown sons. His relationship with his sons is strained at best. when my sons visit from different states he is very kind and generous to them, the same with all of our grandchildren WHEN they are around; however for him out of sight/out of mind. I have a very close drelaitonship with my sons and grandchildren and have attempted one with his sons and their families, I think that so much damage was done prior to my meeting and marrying their father that they just see me as an extention of him. I have taken his granddaughter for the summe as well as my grandchildren which he has never had a problem with. I knew that he was passive aggressive before I married him, however I really didn't know what it meant, it was just a term that I had heard for persons that really did not seem to ever get angry about anything. Well I surely know what it means now, I have read Living with the Passive Aggressive Man and it really hasn't helped me. Many times I choose silence just to keep the peace, but when I get feed up, I speak my mind...generally his response is that he is going to leave; when this first started I was frightened and told him that I didn't want him to leave to which he responede we'll see. I believe that since that time he has used ths to try and get the same response from me however I no longer respond when he says this. Some of my difficulties are: 1) He has embarrassed me in front of others 2) He is either sleeping, watching TV, playing golf, or preparing a sermon ...yes he is a minister!! He does not talk to me, I never have a clue what is on his mind, he feels no obligation to let me know about his whereabouts when he is not home...if I raise hell about this, he will let me know for mayber two weeks then he reverts back to his pold behavior, he however want to know where I am, if not sulking occurs. I can't imagine anyone being as aloof or mean as my husband. We have not had any physical contact for 18 months, his reason at first was that he was unable now there is no excuse. He has told me that he feels like I am using him and as a result he can't do any better in the relationship. Have I overspendt?..YES..Do I overeat..YES..Does a week go by that I do not shed tears..NO..the more I put this in writing the bigger fool I feel I am for allowing myself to be abused like this. Do I love him ..YES..WHY?..I haven't a clue. Does he do anything that is positive..Yes..1) Whatever he gets financially he shares half with me 2) He cannot stand for me not to feel well, he will do whatever he can to take care of me 3) We go out for many community activities 4) He will show compassion and some signs of love when I least expect it, it just comes out of nowhere and leaves just as fast. It is as though he knows when I have had enough and he will do something niv=ce or say something nice to get back in good graces which might last for a week or a month but I always know that the "other behavior" will resurface. We are both christians and I really want to find a way to effectively deal with this behavior so that I am not so devastateds by it. Is therre any hope here? Val

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Thursday, March 16, 2006
12:53 AM

I am so happy that I have found this web site. I too am married to a passive aggressive, I am in my late 50's, he is in his late 60's, we will have been married for four years this April. He was a widower and I was a divcorcee. We both have grown sons. His relationship with his sons is strained at best. when my sons visit from different states he is very kind and generous to them, the same with all of our grandchildren WHEN they are around; however for him out of sight/out of mind. I have a very close drelaitonship with my sons and grandchildren and have attempted one with his sons and their families, I think that so much damage was done prior to my meeting and marrying their father that they just see me as an extention of him. I have taken his granddaughter for the summe as well as my grandchildren which he has never had a problem with. I knew that he was passive aggressive before I married him, however I really didn't know what it meant, it was just a term that I had heard for persons that really did not seem to ever get angry about anything. Well I surely know what it means now, I have read Living with the Passive Aggressive Man and it really hasn't helped me. Many times I choose silence just to keep the peace, but when I get feed up, I speak my mind...generally his response is that he is going to leave; when this first started I was frightened and told him that I didn't want him to leave to which he responede we'll see. I believe that since that time he has used ths to try and get the same response from me however I no longer respond when he says this. Some of my difficulties are: 1) He has embarrassed me in front of others 2) He is either sleeping, watching TV, playing golf, or preparing a sermon ...yes he is a minister!! He does not talk to me, I never have a clue what is on his mind, he feels no obligation to let me know about his whereabouts when he is not home...if I raise hell about this, he will let me know for mayber two weeks then he reverts back to his pold behavior, he however want to know where I am, if not sulking occurs. I can't imagine anyone being as aloof or mean as my husband. We have not had any physical contact for 18 months, his reason at first was that he was unable now there is no excuse. He has told me that he feels like I am using him and as a result he can't do any better in the relationship. Have I overspendt?..YES..Do I overeat..YES..Does a week go by that I do not shed tears..NO..the more I put this in writing the bigger fool I feel I am for allowing myself to be abused like this. Do I love him ..YES..WHY?..I haven't a clue. Does he do anything that is positive..Yes..1) Whatever he gets financially he shares half with me 2) He cannot stand for me not to feel well, he will do whatever he can to take care of me 3) We go out for many community activities 4) He will show compassion and some signs of love when I least expect it, it just comes out of nowhere and leaves just as fast. It is as though he knows when I have had enough and he will do something nice or say something nice to get back in good graces which might last for a week or a month but I always know that the "other behavior" will resurface. We are both christians and I really want to find a way to effectively deal with this behavior so that I am not so devastateds by it. Is therre any hope here? Val

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Thursday, March 16, 2006
12:53 AM

I am so happy that I have found this web site. I too am married to a passive aggressive, I am in my late 50's, he is in his late 60's, we will have been married for four years this April. He was a widower and I was a divcorcee. We both have grown sons. His relationship with his sons is strained at best. when my sons visit from different states he is very kind and generous to them, the same with all of our grandchildren WHEN they are around; however for him out of sight/out of mind. I have a very close drelaitonship with my sons and grandchildren and have attempted one with his sons and their families, I think that so much damage was done prior to my meeting and marrying their father that they just see me as an extention of him. I have taken his granddaughter for the summe as well as my grandchildren which he has never had a problem with. I knew that he was passive aggressive before I married him, however I really didn't know what it meant, it was just a term that I had heard for persons that really did not seem to ever get angry about anything. Well I surely know what it means now, I have read Living with the Passive Aggressive Man and it really hasn't helped me. Many times I choose silence just to keep the peace, but when I get feed up, I speak my mind...generally his response is that he is going to leave; when this first started I was frightened and told him that I didn't want him to leave to which he responede we'll see. I believe that since that time he has used ths to try and get the same response from me however I no longer respond when he says this. Some of my difficulties are: 1) He has embarrassed me in front of others 2) He is either sleeping, watching TV, playing golf, or preparing a sermon ...yes he is a minister!! He does not talk to me, I never have a clue what is on his mind, he feels no obligation to let me know about his whereabouts when he is not home...if I raise hell about this, he will let me know for mayber two weeks then he reverts back to his pold behavior, he however want to know where I am, if not sulking occurs. I can't imagine anyone being as aloof or mean as my husband. We have not had any physical contact for 18 months, his reason at first was that he was unable now there is no excuse. He has told me that he feels like I am using him and as a result he can't do any better in the relationship. Have I overspendt?..YES..Do I overeat..YES..Does a week go by that I do not shed tears..NO..the more I put this in writing the bigger fool I feel I am for allowing myself to be abused like this. Do I love him ..YES..WHY?..I haven't a clue. Does he do anything that is positive..Yes..1) Whatever he gets financially he shares half with me 2) He cannot stand for me not to feel well, he will do whatever he can to take care of me 3) We go out for many community activities 4) He will show compassion and some signs of love when I least expect it, it just comes out of nowhere and leaves just as fast. It is as though he knows when I have had enough and he will do something nice or say something nice to get back in good graces which might last for a week or a month but I always know that the "other behavior" will resurface. We are both christians and I really want to find a way to effectively deal with this behavior so that I am not so devastateds by it. Is therre any hope here? Val