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Doc@DrIrene.com

Comments to Judge's Little Story

Comments to the Judge's Little Story

Courtesy of Dr. Irene Matiatos Copyright© 1999-2000. The material on this website may be distributed freely for non-commercial or educational purposes provided that author credit is given. For commercial distribution, please contact the author at Doc@drirene.com

Caution: While the Judge is a smart man, he is not a trained mental health professional. This site does not endorse "advice" given by the Judge. Please do not ask advice questions, but feel free to post your comments. -Dr. Irene 12/6/99

B1: Submit
Date: 11/19/1999

S1

Dear Judge: Your story makes a lot of sense but some abusers never see the light and keep making your life a living hell even after you separate. For example, my mother who lives in Germany had a heart attack five weeks ago. I asked for permission to take our minor son to visit her and he said no. The case will now be heard by a Judge and all this just for a 10-day vacation with my family. He is still controlling my life and will continue to do so until our son is grown.

B1: Submit
Date: 11/18/1999

S1

You really are an insightful person, and very talented at writing down so that other people benefit. What's your book about? When is it coming out? 

 

B1: Submit
Date: 01/16/2000

S1

Judge, I've learned the truth of your story too late--after enduring a year of verbal abuse from someone who I now know is scared of the world--including me. He is extremely, extremely mentally ill. I'm free of him now--but I have no idea when the scars of his verbal attacks will disappear. I'm determined to overcome my codependency issues, raise my self-esteem, and lead a full and fantastic life--filled with only healthy relationships. Best of luck with your book! --From Jemma

B1: Submit
Date: 01/14/2000

S1

Well written, I can relate to it.

 

B1: Submit
Date: 02/12/2000

S1

What a terrific story. To think I almost passed over this one. I am curious to know if Judge G is a judge, and if so, could he steer this villager in the direction of some "case law" that would be beneficial for victims.

B1: Submit
Date: 06/09/2003

S1

This has to be the most concise analology I have ever read concerning victims of abuse! I would also like to add, Judge "G" has spoken for many who are unheard in their own dilemma! Thank YOU, Judge Mary

B1: Submit
Date: 06/09/2003

S1

This has to be the most concise anaology I have ever read concerning victims of abuse! I would also like to add, Judge "G" has spoken for many who are unheard in their own dilemma! Thank YOU, Judge Mary

B1: Submit
Date: 01/09/2003

S1

What a wonderful analogy. Dr. J, your ability to put into a visual this scenario is very important work. Thank You! Heidi

B1: Submit
Date: 12/30/2002

S1

blurghy@yahoo.com

B1: Submit
Date: 12/30/2002

S1

Hi, Judge G can be found at <p> blurghy@yahoo.com Peace, Judge G....

B1: Submit
Date: 12/30/2002

S1

FROM Judge G....Continued: Sorry I accidently sent the last response before I was finished. This is the continuation of the one below. If this is your idea of him testing what he can and can't get away with and taking a mile as you say. I think you may need to rethink your position. I'll sum it up like this: From what I see, the anecdote you relate here clearly does not bolster your position that he is the problem. In this scenario you appear to be giving him orders and insinuating that you should have "ended" this conversation long ago, while Lionel appears to be ivolved in a discussion and reasonably debating his point.. right or wrong he appears to be acting within reason. Ending it while he is discussing a point would be a bit unfair, wouldn't it? Regardless of whether or not you feel his point is valid. Your "limits" actually appear to be rules and orders for Lionel's life, not limits to stop him from encroaching on your human rights. Here are some examples of my idea of Limits: 1. I will not let anyone order me what to wear, who to talk to, where to go, when to go, when to talk, or what to say. 2. I will not stand still and allow another to raise their voice at me. I will immediately leave the room, house, premises, etc if anyone yells at me. 3. I will not accept another person making jokes that offend or hurt me and telling me I have "no sense of humor" if I am offended. I will voice my displeasure with that action and leave the room. 4. Any physical attacks will result in me immediately calling the police and pressing charges to the fullest extent of the law.!!!!! (This is the ultimate boundary violation. No human has the right to physically assualt another human and anyone who does deserves as harsh a penalty as is allowed by law)(except the death penalty, I think a person who causes death or mayhem to their wife, girlfriend, spouse, domestic partner, etc.... should rot in jail until they die of natural causes. I don't think they should be "put out of their misery" in a few short years via the death penalty. It's too good for them. Just my humble opinion) I will not accept someone verbally attacking my family, friends, religion, or any other personal issue in my life. I will voice my displeasure and leave the room. I will not waste my breath trying to talk with someone who refuses to involve themselves in a fair discussion where both parties take turns talking and listening alternately. Nothing within this category type appears to be at issue here. In fact I would go so far as to say that telling Lionel that he "must" be home within an hour seems rather controlling. My question is this: What happens if Lionel just says NO, I'm not coming home until 12:30 and thats that. Can you really force him to do otherwise? Not without violating a few laws and at least some moral and ethical principals. Of course consequently, if you really feel that lionel must come and go as you say or he has to go. Then it is his decision to follow your "rather strict" rules or leave. Understand that I have absolutely no other information on which to base my opinion other than this story. But in all honesty, Lulu appears to be stepping on Lionel's boundaries rather than the other way around. Arnold seems to be making his case to go out while Lulu appears to be sitting in the "power chair" with the aouthority to grant or deny his request. What's wrong with Lulu making her case for why he should not go and accepting that ultimately it's his decision what he does and your decision whether or not to deal with it. This goes vice cersa for your issue with the girls night out.He should not be able to tell you "absolutely not, that's not the way he lives his life" because it isn't his life he is referring to, it's yours. This is my opinion on who can do what in a relationship: When it comes to adults, give them your opinion once...maybe twice. After that leave them alone, your only aggravating them and wasting your time. It's then time for you to decide how you will respond to THEIR decision, not try it. Human beings end up fearing, then resenting, and ultimately despising anything or anyone they feel controlled by. cases.

B1: Submit
Date: 12/30/2002

S1

FROM Judge G.... Hello to all and Happy belated holidays. I haven't written anything to Dr. irene in a few years and i was scanning and just felt like expressing myself a one of these responses. Particularly the one with a conversation between Lionel and Lulu on 10/11/02. With absolutely no background on this situation I can only comment on the contents of this message. AS DR. IRENE SAYS, I AM NO PROFESSIONAL AND THIS IS JUST A LAYMANS OPINION. NOT TO BE TAKEN AS PROFESSIONAL ADVICE. OK, here goes: My first reaction is that it seems Lulu is to some extent coming across as controlling toward Lionel. It appears as though Lionel is "asking permission" to go out and Lulu believes that she has the right to either grant or deny said permission. "Setting limits" does not equate to giving you the power to tell your partner when to come and go. It refers to someone encroaching on your human rights. A decision on whether or not to "hang out with the boys" on a particular night is purely situational and situations such as this are better solved with open dialogue and discussion rather than giving concrete "orders" as appears to be the case here.

B1: Submit
Date: 10/11/2002

S1

I thought I would give you a typical senerio between my husband and I. It's a lot of work sometimes. My life was upside down until I started to set limits. If I gave him a inch he'd take a mile. Nothing is ever enough becasue he always trys to get me to give him what he wants so he will always test my limits to see what he can or cannot get away with. October 11, 2002 Lionel: Hi Lulu. Lulu: Hi. Silence…… Lionel: Are you o.k. Lulu: What do you mean? Lionel: You were coughing all night. Lulu: I’m not well, but I am getting some rest. Lionel: I just wanted to let you know that I am going out with Jim, Gerg, and Carl for a drink after work. Lulu: When? Lionel: tonight after work for an hour. Lulu: I don’t care what your excuse is. You get off at 11:00 and plan on coming between 12-12:30 a.m. No. It’s not what I want. My limit is 10-11p.m (sounding a bit upset and confused). Lionel: I really don’t care what you want Laughs.. I’m going. I don’t go out all the time, Jim’s brother Carl is in town, and I am only going for an hour. I would have went all day tomorrow but would only stay one hour tonight. Lulu: You can bob and weave all you want to try to get me to give you what you want my answer is still no (She is not confused anymore by his use of manipulation)! Lionel: It’s only for one drink. Lulu: If you’re going to use drinking as an excuse than don’t drink. On second thought it’s fine. Susan is having a birthday party at MK tomorrow night girls only I’ll be home by 1a.m. I don’t do it all the time. Lionel: Absolutely not! It’s not the way I live my life! Lulu: Ditto. Lionel: Then why don’t you come with me? Lulu: You never asked. Lionel: Well I am asking you now. Lulu: I would, but I am not well. Lionel: Just one hour. Lulu: No. I am not well (she should have ended this discussion long ago, your always wrong when someone is defensive there is no point in arguing). Lionel: Please don’t do this to me, I promised them and they are going to be waiting for me! I know your not feeling good, but lets go for one drink. Lulu: No!. Do you friends come first or your wife? Lionel: My wife, but please don’t embarrass me in front of my friends. Lulu: If you refuse to see yourself and it’s not my job to show you what your doing. Anyways, Carl is here all weekend you’ll get a chance to see him at Gerg's party. Lionel: That’s true. Lulu: Learning to be responsible of your behavior is your problem. You can bob and weave your way out of every problem, but that same pattern is going to stay alive as long as you keep practicing it, until you bob and weave your way out of my life. If you’re not going to seek counseling than you’re not ready to resolve the problem. I am responsible for my happiness. I have to make myself happy. I’m unhappy enough to get there. I didn’t think I had a choice being abused as a child. I know I have a choice now. I am responsible for myself. I have a right to protect myself. I will not put myself at risk of being hurt again. I want us to go to counseling. It’s your choice. Either you want to or you don’t. It’s that simple. Lionel: I do, but will not go unless you’re going too. You know that you also have a problem too. Lulu: Of course I do. I would have left you a long time ago if I didn’t have a problem myself (not being a normal healthy person). I have a right to be happy, to be in a non-abusive relationship, and not lack an equal partnership on all levels. If you want a one-way relationship this isn’t the one for you. Lionel: You know you are also controlling don’t you? Lulu: Yes. Lionel: In what ways do you see it in yourself? Lulu: Every way I try to correct your behavior. Lionel: I want to go to counseling too. I think it’s a good idea. Lulu: Good, I’ll make an appointment. My limit will be 6 months to a year from the day we start counseling. If you do not keep up with counseling and slip back into the same pattern of bobbing and weaving to try to get me to give you the things that you want, I’ll make up my mind by then to leave you with your problem. Lionel: O.k. I’ll see you when I get home. Lulu: O.k. Later when Lionel approached Lulu she conveyed her thoughts about how she felt: Lulu: I am sorry you felt that I was embarrassing you, but you know the limits so grow up!

B1: Submit
Date: 07/06/2002

S1

Dear Judge, I read with great interest your "Little Story." Dragon seems to be the perfect word for describing angry abusive people. I wrote this poem in 1997, it sums up my feelings...

I faced the dragon again today The one that just won't go away. I tried to fight, with all my might But this mighty dragon I can not slay.

I faced the dragon again today Felt the burn from his firey breath That consumed my dreams as another fell to it's death.

I faced the dragon again today With trembling legs and shaking hands I tried to be strong and stand my ground Then watched the unraveling of my plans.

I faced the dragon again today No more words, no more pleas There's nothing left to say To the refuge I have no keys.

I faced the dragon again today His firey breath consumed my life The anger of the one who years ago made me his wife.

I can't wait to read your book. Thanks, charp@charter.net

B1: Submit
Date: 06/08/2002

S1

the cheetah part two......surely, when you approach a hungry cheetah, it will mount an all out visciuos attack to eat you. stay cool. it's been weakened while you were gaining energy. let it attack you and wear itself out.

do not feed the animals!! it will try to get something from you, but give it nothing. it will eventually reach a turning point. it may turn into a human being, it may not.

it's best if it can be tamed. if not do it's next victim a favor and pull it's claws out and send it on it's way.

B1: Submit
Date: 06/08/2002

S1

a cheetah needs to kill one out of five in order to survive. if you do not fear for your physical safety, then keep your distance a few months. recharge yourself while the cheetah is wearing himself out searching for food (somone elses lifeforce). it is best to recon his hunting ground so he will go hungry. after it's weakened, capture it and tame it

B1: Submit
Date: 05/05/2002

S1

I really like this story a lot. It is very good! My I post it on my abuse page? www.geocities.com/dizzymom92123/WomeninHealing.html Thanks Cindy

B1: Submit
Date: 02/22/2002

S1

tressatripp@hotmail.com

B1: Submit
Date: 02/22/2002

S1

tresatripp@hotmail.com

B1: Submit
Date: 02/22/2002

S1

tresatripp@hotmail.com

B1: Submit
Date: 02/22/2002

S1

tresatripp@hotmail.com

B1: Submit
Date: 02/22/2002

S1

tresatripp@hotmail.com

B1: Submit
Date: 02/22/2002

S1

B1: Submit
Date: 02/22/2002

S1

B1: Submit
Date: 02/20/2002

S1

B1: Submit
Date: 08/24/2001

S1

I'm glad I found your web site. I've been married for 6 years and I never realized that my children and I were in an emotionally abusive situation. And I never realized to take a long look at myself and how codependent I've been. (What a wake up call this has been) I have filed for a divorce prior to reading your web site but I found it quite informative. Thank you

B1: Submit
Date: 08/24/2001

S1

I'm glad I found your web site. I've been married for 6 years and I never realized that my children and I were in an emotionally abusive situation. And I never realized to take a long look at myself and how codependent I've been. (What a wake up call this has been) I have filed for a divorce prior to reading your web site but I found it quite informative. Thank you

 

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B1: Submit
Date: 07/19/2001

S1

I read the Judges story and I appreciate his analogy, it was fun to read. To me, the most influencial part was what other people wrote. It takes all kinds to make you realize yourself.

Here's to peace of mind............

B1: Submit
Date: 07/19/2001

S1

B1: Submit
Date: 06/29/2001

S1

Dr Irene,

Is there any chance here that the Judge may be at least part abuser here? I am not assuming, just asking...he seems abnormally angry.

B1: Submit
Date: 02/13/2001

S1

B1: Submit
Date: 12/28/2000

S1

I never believed myself to be "counciling" material, but I'm at the end of my rope. I know that my partner has always been controlling. Thats why we never have visitors, he's run off all our family and friends. Still, I'm coping the best I can and have no intentons of surrendering. I know he's scared of me. He envys my strength and sometimes I suspect that he only stays with me to see what it will take to break me, We have three children together I have no financial or economic base from which to draw upon independantly without him (and he provides for us well materially) other than my own dreams of writing and producing my music.. which he loves to constantly remind me that, "You're good, but you're not THAT good. So forget it. It's just a hobby and that's all it will ever be." Yes, he meets all the criteria of the verbally abusive partner and then some. I would have no qualms about letting go, it's just that I need a job, a writing job. It's something I'm good at and it would allow me to be close to my children and work at the same time. Also, I'm an excellent proofreader and would gladly accept work in this field if you know of anyone who needs my talents. I know for a fact that economic independance would be the wind beneath my wings (quoting Bette Midler) and would free the chains around my heart and soul so that I may conquer my dragon. Please reply if you can help. You will save my soul which is tenaciously hanging on to it's own survival and which has been for twenty two years and counting. I'm only 35 and I need to start living without doubt. Thank You Christine

B1: Submit
Date: 12/28/2000

S1

I never believed myself to be "counciling" material, but I'm at the end of my rope. I know that my partner has always been controlling. Thats why we never have visitors, he's run off all our family and friends. Still, I'm coping the best I can and have no intentons of surrendering. I know he's scared of me. He envys my strength and sometimes I suspect that he only stays with me to see what it will take to break me, We have three children together I have no financial or economic base from which to draw upon independantly without him (and he provides for us well materially) other than my own dreams of writing and producing my music.. which he loves to constantly remind me that, "You're good, but you're not THAT good. So forget it. It's just a hobby and that's all it will ever be." Yes, he meets all the criteria of the verbally abusive partner and then some. I would have no qualms about letting go, it's just that I need a job, a writing job. It's something I'm good at and it would allow me to be close to my children and work at the same time. Also, I'm an excellent proofreader and would gladly accept work in this field if you know of anyone who needs my talents. I know for a fact that economic independance would be the wind beneath my wings (quoting Bette Midler) and would free the chains around my heart and soul so that I may conquer my dragon. Please reply if you can help. You will save my soul which is tenaciously hanging on to it's own survival and which has been for twenty two years and counting. I'm only 35 and I need to start living without doubt. Thank You Christine

B1: Submit
Date: 12/08/2000

S1

hey what's up i like your story my friend is verbaly abusing me in school she just called me a goddamn whore. does that count as verbal abuse? if so what should i do? erica bethard please help 23172 sherer st. mattawan mi 49071

B1: Submit
Date: 11/02/2000

S1

double, triple, oops, I mean

(new to site...genuine apology, not defensiveness)

my first comment(which evaporated somehow)was that I have observed a "dialect" of the abuser language that smacks of social propriety...i.e. "THAT was soooooo RUDE!!!!!", et al

B1: Submit
Date: 11/02/2000

S1

oops!

to continue...the "dialect" which I described is a variation on the same basic theme of one-upmanship, belittles and strokes the abusers "black hole" of an insatiable ego all at once (bitta-bang-bahda-boom!)

I also agree as to the offensiveness of learning the language of a hostile country when there is no reciprocity. (defies most persons innate sense of justice...which could be defined as one rule for all...or what's good for the goose/gander is yada yada yada)...Personal integrity and self-respect are priceless, noble qualities and are their own reward, though...

Here I must interject a thought from the entry on "bad people" which I am compelled to relate back to what I just said, about that which is "innate". I think that you, DR. IRENE, referred to the same concept as "self" (as opposed to ego").

Well, how about this?....Maybe there are just some people (be they sociopaths or whatever) that are just plain unredeemable, non-remorseful "BAD SELFS", whether by nature or nurture, (not that it should be an excuse either, because we ALL ultimately have to play the hand we are dealt, and we are ALL the product of the union of two non-perfect people...or as I prefer to say, we are all dysfunctional, but some people hide it better than others)

I can understand the professional obligation to treat ALL as objectively as possible, yet can relate very much to what the judge said, too. I guess (in behalf of the psych. professions), you must give ALL the benefit of a doubt in the hopes of salvaging those few who have not completely eroded that "innate self" and come from pure motive and can muster the intestinal fortitude.

WHEW!

B1: Submit
Date: 11/02/2000

S1

oops!

to continue...the "dialect" which I described is a variation on the same basic theme of one-upmanship, belittles and strokes the abusers "black hole" of an insatiable ego all at once (bitta-bang-bahda-boom!)

I also agree as to the offensiveness of learning the language of a hostile country when there is no reciprocity. (defies most persons innate sense of justice...which could be defined as one rule for all...or what's good for the goose/gander is yada yada yada)...Personal integrity and self-respect are priceless, noble qualities and are their own reward, though...

Here I must interject a thought from the entry on "bad people" which I am compelled to relate back to what I just said, about that which is "innate". I think that you, DR. IRENE, referred to the same concept as "self" (as opposed to ego").

Well, how about this?....Maybe there are just some people (be they sociopaths or whatever) that are just plain unredeemable, non-remorseful "BAD SELFS", whether by nature or nurture, (not that it should be an excuse either, because we ALL ultimately have to play the hand we are dealt, and we are ALL the product of the union of two non-perfect people...or as I prefer to say, we are all dysfunctional, but some people hide it better than others)

I can understand the professional obligation to treat ALL as objectively as possible, yet can relate very much to what the judge said, too. I guess (in behalf of the psych. professions), you must give ALL the benefit of a doubt in the hopes of salvaging those few who have not completely eroded that "innate self" and come from pure motive and can muster the intestinal fortitude.

WHEW!

B1: Submit
Date: 10/12/2000

S1

B1: Submit
Date: 10/12/2000

S1

B1: Submit
Date: 04/16/2000

S1