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Comments for Catbox 20

Comments for Cat box 20

Material posted here is intended for educational purposes only, and must not be considered a substitute for informed advice from your own health care provider.

Courtesy of Dr. Irene Matiatos   Copyrightę 2000. The material on this website may be distributed freely for non-commercial or educational purposes provided that author credit is given. For commercial distribution, please contact the author at Doc@drirene.com

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B1: Submit
Date: Tuesday, January 16, 2001

S1

Hi Jo Ann,

Being dependent on another human being isn't a problem in itself, we are all dependent on one another to certain degrees. However, the problem arises when the dependency is at a price. In an interdependent world, I would rely on you for some things and you'd rely on me. Like in a shop You might pay with YOUR money for my GOODS (equal exchange). Though in an unhealthy situation I might make you pay MORE than my GOODS are worthy so you'd end up with less and less MONEY. Though your desperate for my goods and can't live without them so you keep paying and paying, your bank balance decreases but I have lots from you so I feel good.

This is what happens in an unbalanced relationship (it happened to me and others here!!) I am not very practical my X was. He was great with his hands though he wasn't so good with his academia skills so I filled out all the forms sorted the bills and did school work with our daughter and my X did all the DIY stuff, sounded like a good team. NO!! It wasn't. You see I'd help my X just cuz I wanted to be part of a team. Did he return the favour? AT A PRICE!! He knew there were things I just couldn't do one example was in our old house. (it was a beautiful house that we bought last year, I'd always wanted my own home and so didn't mind paying for the mortgage, we'd only ever rented before) I had a fantasy in my head of this house and how it was gonna be, PERFECT!! Was it perfect? NO!! Did I continue to wish it would be perfect YES!!

Anyway in this beautiful house was a funny back door. It was so hard to open and close, the lock was out of line and so it took strength open and close it. My X had no problem he used to do weight training and had good upper body strength from his driving HGV lorries. ME I have little strength in my wrists. On top of that I am not very practical in the sense of DIY, my X could look at something practical and know how he'd sort it straight off, me on the other hand I'd struggle even when there are instructions. I can't screw a screw into a piece of wood cuz I have little strength.

In a healthy relationship it wouldn't matter what I was good at or what my strengths and weaknesses were cuz I'd have support so if I could do xxxx and you could do xxxxx, we'd get along okay. BUT in an emotionally abusive one this is what happened: At first my X would lock the door, though one evening I disagreed with him about some trivial thing, he went to bed and left the door open. He said See how you manage without me. I tried to lock the door in fact I tried for an hour on and off. I kept resisting "Try, try again, if at first you don't succeed try, try again." I became so frustrated. I began to cry. Why am I so useless, why on earth can't I do it!! I felt useless and worthless and hurt and angry and frustrated. Eventually I locked the latch lock and went to bed. As I entered the bedroom I said "I can't lock the dead lock so it will have to stay unlocked, I've tried my best and that is all I can do." My X said, "Oh well if someone gets in then your to blame". I said "Fine". Then I cried myself to sleep. Many more occasions went on like this, and I never realized the things he made a big deal out of and used when he was angry were my weaknesses.

I began to be like a robot, asking him if X was okay for him, (IT DIDN'T matter if it wasn't for me, JUST as long as I kept the peace)

The reason I did all of this was "How on earth would I cope without him, I mean I can't fit a plug, nor decorate, nor do any diy, GEEZZ I need him". But at what price, to feel worthless and useless and unworthy. Well I was useless I mean I couldn't fit a plug. WAS this so important that I should stay even when I see my health decorating and my self esteem none existent and my little girl getting more and more hurt. IS IT WORTH IT? Well it took me along time to see it wasn't, a good 12 months and even in this time I reasoned with myself that if only I did xxxx he'd not get so damn mad.

Though finally the PRICE got too high, my child's school work was very poor. SO the PRICE I was paying for the sake of my child was actually putting my child in misery. SO I finally left. HARDEST thing I ever did!!

Then I did the next hardest thing I ever did, learnt to not rely so much on my X. Because the price I paid for relying on him was also too HIGH. If he helped me, the price was being reminded for long after and manipulated with Fear, obligation and guilt. DR IRENE helped me put a stop to this behaviour: I read FOG - Manipulation, Fear, Obligation and Guilt. (On Dr Irene's reading list)

So how do I manage without relying on my X. I ask others for help who don't use manipulation, Fear, Obligation or guilt on me. You see with my X he'd use FEAR in the form of if you don't help me (even when it would leave me out of pocket) then I won't help you again, OR I did xxxx for you. [which meant I won't again if you don't help me] Obligation (You owe me and then he'd list all he'd done for me), Guilt (Look at all I've done for you, you should be grateful). DID I have a choice? YES I DID, I could stop asking him for help and ask others.

I thought NO one would help but GOD always provides what we NEED!!! At first my X was angry cuz he'd say "I could of done that for you." I'd say "Oh well it is done now". Over time I felt better cuz I knew that when I got help from another they didn't want a high price from me.

I began to help only when others asked me and when I could help without feeling used or abused. And when I knew that the helper wasn't going to use Fear, obligation or guilt. IF They did then I could always find someone else to help. I could try some things myself.

In time I want to learn some things myself. THOUGH I do realize some things do require strength and these are the things I can ask for help with.

That is my next step learning to do things for myself more.

The things you do may not be perfect and may not come up to the standards of your ABUSER but rest assure GOD doesn't expect us to do things perfect as long as they are OKAY and you are able to get by with them that is what matters.

Also what does help is for you to list all the things you can do, include everything you've ever done since you were born, and all the things you do day to day, if you couldn't do these things you'd not get through the day, so celebrate how unique and skilful you are, cuz you've learnt so much since you were born.

And remember, you are a piece of the universe's jigsaw and without you a special piece it wouldn't be complete, the same with all of us we are special cuz GOD chose us to be part of the universe. WORTH CUZ WE ARE!!!

Take care Theressa

B1: Submit
Date: Tuesday, January 16, 2001

S1

Steve,

When I wrote the note to Asha I had not read the reply that showed you were both in this business together, in some fashion. I apologize for the statement 'it was not your business' because obviously, you do have some involvement. However, when you became upset with her for not consulting you about how she was going to be traveling it suggested you did not trust her to make the right decision for her. You were ready to make suggestions about how she should behave differently, i.e. not traveling with the other two and staying after to network. It sounds a little like an employer employee relationship where the employee has to find out what to do and how they should conduct themselves when the employer is not around. Is that the situation with you and Asha? I understand there are instances when Asha is upset because she has felt excluded from plans with the family. At those times it also appears that trust is lacking on her part. She is not trusting you to do the right thing by her. I see controlling behavior coming from both sides, but in this instance it was very clear that you wanted to "change" Asha's behavior to what you thought was best for her. The Beatles Tune, Let is Be is so apt for these occasions - "Whisper the words of wisdom, let it be, let it be" I want to add - Whisper the words of wisdom let them be, let them be.

H Lynn

B1: Submit
Date: Tuesday, January 16, 2001

S1

Steve, One more note. You implied that I might be a man hater. Far from the truth. If you look at one of my earlier posts you will see that I made a point of defending Dan in a situation where I thought Lynn was being the verbal abuser and in her frustration with him, perhaps not seeing things from his point of view.

H Lynn

 

B1: Submit
Date: Tuesday, January 16, 2001

S1

Hi Jo Ann,

I did post to you earlier but it doesn't seem to have gone through.

Jo Ann there is no harm in anyone helping you or asking you for help, that is if you want the help. If you ask for help then fine, if another person asks for help fine. It is when others giving unwanted help there are problems. Like the husband who needs to nit pick at every thing, or the wife who needs to have everything perfect. Perfection can never be attained however, some unhealthy ones try as they might to be perfect and beat themselves up and others over not making the mark.

Also Jo Ann, what happens when your ex partner helps you? Does he need to keep reminding you of how he helped you do xxx? Does he do xxx for you but you must do xxxx for him?

Does he use any of these things to get you to do things for him:

Fear - (fear in the form of making it known if you won't help me next time I won't help you) you buy this fear cuz you think no one else will ever help you.

[But God always provides just what we need, I promise!! I felt just like this, did the help I need come, CERTAINLY, GOD NEVER LET ME DOWN, YET!!]

Obligation - You must do this, your my wife, I have done all this for you, I did (list of things for you) what have you done for me, you stand silently cuz you just can't remember anything, or if you can the other says Yes but that was just a family thing etc.

Guilt - Look you owe me, I did all this for you, well you'll be sorry, I won't help you again.

YOU see when a request is made it is a bet. The bet is "YES or NO". Now in a healthy relationship (whether husband/wife, friend/friend) a request can be granted or refused. Each individual understands that there may be times when it is not possible to have their request granted. In an unhealthy relationship the other MUST meet the request even if it is not in their best interests.

It is good to try to learn to do some things yourself, since sometimes we are just used to another doing it for us. SO try to do what you can for yourself, read books, ask other friends for help in teaching you the skills you need.

And also ask others to help you with tasks you find difficult. Learn to rely less and less on your EX, why? well firstly the less depend you are on your EX the better cuz then he can see you've moved on, (You should have anyway if your divorced).

Secondly you open your world to all the people who would want to help you. You increase your reserves of helpers in your life so you have someone to help when you need it.

Finally you take the control of your life back from your EX. Cuz if like me your EX uses his help as a control thing. (In abuse this is usually what its about control) then it isn't good to carry on.

Also you need to start thinking of your life as separate from your past marriage if your gonna get on with your life.

Believe me the sooner you stop being so reliant the better. I was just like you only about 6 weeks ago.

Now I don't buy manipulation. (okay sometimes I do when I slip)

Jo Ann, you are capable of living without your EX's help, promise!!!

Take care Theressa

 

B1: Submit
Date: Tuesday, January 16, 2001

S1

Hey the board is going funny!!!

What's up doc!!!  I tink I thee a puddy tat...

 

B1: Submit
Date: Tuesday, January 16, 2001

S1

A couple of questions...how I get to the point that I don't "care" when my husband is verbally abusive...I read that I can disengage when I don't care anymore...."don't care" means what? Right now, I'm so tired of sarcasm and abuse that my fury rises within me when he hurls a mean comment to me that I can't disengage fast enough! Also, My husband tends to badger me with more verbiage when I try to ignore him....he's not happy until he gets a rise out of me and then I wear down and react, usually screaming or crying, etc. Help!!!

B1: Submit
Date: Tuesday, January 16, 2001

S1

Jay here again.

My daughter is still us with to my surprise. Even getting on with HumanKatkid and although the day started with what turned out not to be an emergency visit to the hospital over the stiff neck at about 6 am it has all been fine on the whole.

But the interesting thing is the emergency showed me something about Jake. I have spent 20 years misreading his words because of his stupid moustache and beard. You really can't see the face! (He also has waist length hair). I said something and he said something and there I was again feeling unsupported whereas in fact he was being supportive with no facial language and no expression. he speaks at times in a monotone.

I think this is happening a lot and he can't read me either. I come from a vocal family and we are pretty expressive with our faces and hands. He comes from one that isn't.

It all got me thinking about a conversation I had with J before he died. Basically J like everyone else used to tease me a lot. One day I snapped at him that I hated this and he said he was really sorry but the message I gave out was I didn't actually mind. He also used to say how Jake and I were like two perfect halves; the exact opposite of each other.

The thing is this all relates to how the family treats me. I think they still have the message I can be the butt of their jokes. I do some daft things and I don't mind that but last night I realised how on the outside I feel and it is as if they just don't quite think I can be o.k. Somehow it is always 'silly mummy."

So now I am trying to work out how to get this back. I guess it is by not caring about it which is the impression I certainly gave J! But I do (lots of teasing as a child.) And how do you do this when you really do goof it at times. The best one; the one they will never forget is the holiday where I insisted on taking along some Highlighters which I mistakenly picked up in the supermarket thinking they were those cheap cigarette lighters and useful for lighting a camping stove. Jake couldn't see why I insisted on bringing them...not could the kids......Same holiday as I suggested pig houses in a field were 'tents for pigs!"

Somewhere along the way I forgot to lose those playground hurts....

Anyhow I am wondering if maybe that despite everything Jake and I will survive? Jake is certainly not trying to stop me being my own person anymore in fact I would like some interest! Interest on an adult level. Human and intellectual. I guess at least I am lucky he doesn't drink or have affairs. (I am very sure on that one). he is always home in the evenings and at work if I need to ring..... This would be enough for a lot of people.

It really is just the respect issue. I think the physical violence really only did happen as a result of stress. The sick pit feeling in my stomach has gone. Although from time to time I feel angry; then I calm and usually it is due to the miscommunication.

So what on earth are we? A great couple that lost it's way due to horrific life events which is what our friends think or abused and abuser. I can't say it didn't all happen. Two lost people expecting perfection from each other?

I guess I am just confused.

Hi Jo Ann,

I wonder if there is divorce in the legal sense and then mental divorce which is the harder of the two. I think that codependency is something we all have in degrees and that is what gets us into the position of being abused but only you can know. I think a lot of things are abusive in degrees but you must have had a reason for divorcing.

 

B1: Submit
Date: Tuesday, January 16, 2001

S1

And now for something a little different...

How in the heck does one appropriately deal with a verbally abusive senior co-worker? Other than looking for another job (which I *am* doing!), that is.

I know I posted about this a little bit probably back in catbox single digits :) but the situation has escalated into some fairly open hostility, and given that the rest of my life is busy but quite nicely free of abuse, I don't want to put UP with this anywhere anymore!

She raised her voice to me the other day. In front of a new temp we were both training. I am very angry. People have complained about this woman to management before but it doesn't seem to help. They say "well, she's just like that." More sensitive souls than I have gone home in tears because this woman has made them feel like they have a single-digit IQ.

I know she doesn't much like me. She never has. I've tried my best to be nice to her, and at first she was pseudo-friendly, but now she just *glares* at me and snaps at me all the time.

Today, when she called a meeting to "clarify" some things that us newer folks were misunderstanding, I had a question about a particular aspect of the problem. She immediately assumed I was talking about something else we had discussed before and started this tirade at me (again in front of everyone), and when I tried to break in and say "No, that's not what I meant! Could I please start over?" she almost wouldn't let me finish. Her two favorite phrases at work seem to be "Whatever!" and "I don't have TIME for this!" Well, I don't have time to take this from her. I go to work to work, not to be insulted!

The irony here: she's the super-Christian with the angels and Bible verses all over her desk and the Amy Grant tapes etc etc. Hypocrite. *sigh* I really hate that.

Life is good otherwise. :) A- in the last class, my new ones start next week, parents had a lovely time in London and told me all about it, kitties love me.... But the better life gets the less I want to tolerate this junk. I can't afford to walk off the job even if I could reconcile such a thing with my conscience (just walking off with no replacement seems irresponsible to me).

Help?

Astrid

B1: Submit
Date: Wednesday, January 17, 2001

S1

Asha here.

Astrid

I feel for you. I had to put up with a co-worker that was really difficult too for an extended period of time. But think of it as a great exercise in learning not to "bounce" off others - like a class on advanced boundary-work. Remember, it's her stuff - it doesn't have to be yours.

I don't know if this would be your thing, but a book I read, and am now rereading called "Personal Power through Awareness" by Sanaya Roman was extremely helpful to me during that phase of my job. (Amazon.com has the description) It's mostly about learning not to be affected by others' negativity.

Good Luck

 

Jay

Don't worry about the highlighter incident. A friend of mine couldn't figure out why his calculator wasn't working until he realized it was the TV. remote control! giggle

 

BTW, Steve and I seem to have resolved the carpooling incident. Of course, it was nothing to do with carpooling really.  Grin...

I think I bounced off a negative reaction of his, then he got defensive and his reaction compounded (just my take, he may see it differently). I'm still glad I went with my gut about my decision, however. What I would try to do differently in the future would be not get so upset with Steve's reaction. :) I think he needed to mull it over some more. I could have been gentler about bringing up my concerns rather than accusatory. :) Note: She's controlling herSelf! Go Girl Go!

Amway, we haven't killed each other or anything *so* far....

I also got a lot of stuff off my chest that had been bothering me and I feel okay about things now.

take care all

Asha

B1: Submit
Date: Wednesday, January 17, 2001

S1

Sandra,

I hear you loud and clear on "getting sucked back in." Thanks very much for responding to my earlier post. Like a lot of first-time posters, I was nervous about airing my views and you and Asha have been very helpful.

I think I needed a clarifying perspective on my sister. I hadn't noticed the connection you pointed out between her lack of support for me and her expectation that I will support her, but you're exactly right. In broad terms, this has been the situation between us since forever.

Hurray for you on reaching the decision to get the hateful parent out of your life. It takes considerable bravery to do this publicly. It's hard for me to thumb my nose at the commandment to honor my mother and father, but it's well past time. Or maybe I *am* honoring them by finally respecting their wish to freely despise me? : )

I'm glad I saw your post tonight. I had only just (a day or so ago) come to the solid conclusion that my sister has to go along w/ my parents. She's simply not trustworthy (because she's caught in abuse and she's not quite sane… I've been there), and so she puts my kids at risk. I hate saying this!!

I feel like I moved through a kind of grieving through the holidays w/ my mother's and sister's hospitalizations, even though no one has died (yet). I've realized the hardest thing to let go of is the fantasy that I can somehow change the situation and create a happy family of origin--this is more difficult than letting go of the people themselves, w/ whom I haven't ever had much of a relationship.

Thanks for the insight on my demand that they all get "meds and therapy" as a precondition for relationship w/ me. You're right, of course: I am being defensive and controlling. I guess that says buckets about my willingness to have them in my life on any terms, really.

I wish you all the best on your dissertation. Don't sweat it on the 'spring chicken' issue. It took me 12 years to get from field exams to thesis defense. All the noise about needing to get a tenure-track job before you're 30 in order to survive and prosper turns out to be completely bogus.

Best, silver

B1: Submit
Date: Wednesday, January 17, 2001

S1

Dear Astrid. Sorry the coworker is being such a pain. Maybe a complaint to management is in order if you will be yet another but if you can get union help if appropriate I would.

But I think you are going to get this sorted better than you think as you are coming across as so in control of you and your life these days.

Dear all, meanwhile back at the ranch; well English ex council house actually: I am totally in confusion still. Daughter, who maybe ought to have a name so given we seem to have ended up with a family of cool cats here I will call her Kit is still here but telling me she has to be at her flat at 4 and giving no clue about whether this is returning or coming back here after. Please God let us last without things going wrong as we seem to be getting along. All very knife edge: But I think I am on top of it. Jake just won't talk about it.

And the communication is still not sorted in my mind. Yesterday he spent a long time trying to mend the printer for me which was kind then told me "nothing in the house was looked after." I was left with a mix of emotion as I just never know what to do with these comments. The printer was dusty, so I see his point in a way. He also said things got banged around and when I said I didn't bang them he said " I didn't mean you." Then again this morning confusion as I said something and got NO answer and he then replied when I asked him why "II didn't think it was worth an answer." I just said "oh" would have been enough and then he accused me of butting in when all I had said was ' You need to make that cheque out to the school." Then he actually apologised and then said "but you were butting in......"

I am sure ALL I want is to be respected as an equal human and I think although I engage less it is just something that I am not programmed to do. It is just so hard and Dr Irene says practice, practice ......

The family therapy which both children won't attend is soon and I still haven't made up my mind. To go or not to go is the question. Really I am so frightened of making an idiot of myself again.....

Human Katkid doesn't want to go as he is happy and can't see the point. Weird isn't it how the same parents can affect two kids differently. Kitt won't go as she says she is not a member of this family?????????!!!!! (Then why is she here?). So it would be just Jake and me again and I am unsure if that can ever work. Just is, or isn't there a point?

Am I healing up or getting worse? Falling apart or getting my act together? How can anyone be so unsure of themselves?

To the Lady doing the MA. I am so glad you are getting on with it now. Mine still lacks the research part and I wish I felt I could manage it just now. Keep getting post from the University saying pay your fees or else. Just don't do what I did and let your own research go out of date! Putting your own self first doesn't come easy. having taught so many adducts I do know the power of that piece of paper on your self esteem. Do this one for you!

Love to all, ConfusedCat Jay. :(

 

Jay

B1: Submit
Date: Wednesday, January 17, 2001

S1

Hi,

How you get to the point of not caring anymore? YOU get there when you have self acceptance. IT Is okay to make mistakes and learn from them. No one can do everything First class. We all have talents and strengths, and we all have weaknesses. Though we are okay, just the way we are. We don't deserve to be putdown just cuz someone else can do xxxx and we are not so good at it.

We begin by telling ourselves we are truly okay just the way we are.

Then we learn to stop others harming us. WE start to set boundaries. We tell our spouses/partners that we will leave the room if they continue to speak to us that way. THEN we leave the room.

Getting into therapy is a MUST!

Also telling yourself what others say is "Just their opinion".

SO To summarize Don't care means? That you realize it is just their opinion and not really about you, it isn't personal. And no matter what they say doesn't change the fact that you are not the labels they use for you. (The labels maybe useless, worthless, stupid, or it maybe that they blame you for things which your not responsible for such as their poor behaviour)

Further boundaries about what is YOU and what isn't YOU. Responsibility - So your feelings about others behaviour, your ACTIONS, your ideas, thoughts, your way of seeing things. ARE all in your control. Your partners feelings, his actions, his ideas, his thoughts, his way of seeing things. ARE all in his control.

So you can't make him mad. YOU can though speak up and say that your not going to put up with this anymore. Therapy helps you do this.

YOU are over sensitive. (Your meant to be!!) who wouldn't be if they were hurt continually. WHAT TO DO!!! LEAVE the house, if he starts as soon as you can. Go to the bathroom and deep breathe. OR just sit and close your eyes and breathe even if he is in the room. He can't force you to react. HOWEVER, much he badgers you. FEEL a warm glow come over you. JUST DON'T START REACTING TO HIM.

IF you do react, sit down later and write down what happened, and see if maybe you could of gotten out of the room sooner etc. Don't beat yourself up over this, mistakes are learning points.

BUT really therapy is the only way I really got the support I needed. One to one with an abuse therapist is the ticket!!!

Get the help, you deserve it!!

Take care Theressa

(I've been there you will master all this and get through it)

 

B1: Submit
Date: Wednesday, January 17, 2001

S1

Silver and Catbox Readers;

It was difficult to break away from my dad. I was only able to do it because his wife was making so much trouble because she was upset I was in his will and she really wanted his money. she is borderline personality disorder and she threatened to 'have me killed' and that was just too much for me. Thank goodness my self-respect and self-preservation kicked in.

As for being supportive of your sister and she not reciprocating, I think I noticed it in your post because my brother is very similar in expecting me to do so much for him but if I need anything he disappears.

It is very lonely losing one or more family members because of their abusiveness and lack of respect for us. It has so adversely affected my choice in partners as well and am currently single and feeling that marrying again will never happen. But I am taking care of myself in spite of the family and ex situation. Hope you are too.

Sandra

B1: Submit
Date: Thursday, January 18, 2001

S1

Hi again everyone,

I've decided that I can't win in my relationship and that this person is not going to change - I can't even talk about things that bother me without getting blamed for bringing them up. He thinks everything is "perfect" except for my bringing up things that bother me. Then he rages. The line between "controlling" and "working things out" is very blurred, but always hurtful to me. My body punishes me for engaging. So, re ending the relationship: Dear Readers of the Catbox: Do I open a communication with him to "officially" end it or do I let what is developing into a long silence (since I hung up on his rage on Saturday) just go its own way, the path of least resistance? Either way, I know I am going to be "wrong." I know I will be the crazy one, the hysterical one, the picky one, the one with the emotional problems, the one who doesn't appreciate all he has done for me, etc etc. Hmmmm. I read myself in print and I just go "wow..."

I am leaning toward the peaceful (to me) silence and if (when) he communicates (it's a long distance relationship at the moment), just dealing with what comes up. By myself, without all the noise of maintaining this relationship at a distance and above all with all these problems, I can re-install some integrity to myself, take care of my body, take care of my mind, my self- esteem, my research, and enjoy this beautiful place where I am living right now.

Please answer and tell me what you all think is the healthiest and most responsible action.

Thanks, Kathleen

B1: Submit
Date: Thursday, January 18, 2001

S1

Dear Kathleen

I can imagine you tend to take the ‘easy' road of not officially ending the relationship. But I do feel that is not the best way. You will be waiting for him to call you, will keep thinking that maybe he will maybe change his ways and you will not be free in your own mind. Admitted, even if you do end the relationship officially, it will take a while for you to be free of him, but at least it will be more clear to the both of you. By not ending it, you will keep the door open. If that is what you want, OK, but you say you want to end the relationship. In my opinion, if you really want to end it, do so loud and clear. If you are afraid of him abusing you, don't call him, send a mail and tell him clearly you do not want to see him again and state why. I think it will give you a better closure and it will be easier in the long run.

Good luck, whatever way you chose

Dear Lynn, He, dragonmommy, where are you? We need you to met the snow. Miss you and Dan. Hope you two are doing OK.

Dear Theressa, it's so great to see you write all the stuff to others. Stuff you were so unsure about just some weeks ago. I think you are doing great. Keep up the progress!!!

Dear Astrid, it's funny isn't it, once you recognize what abuse is about, it is so much easier to spot it. I think you are totally right to say you won't take abuse from any one. You stay put, make a complaint, try to make a front with some of the other complaining co-workers. I had a very abusive boss some years ago (though I did not know it was abuse). It was really a bad situation, till we all got together and found out it was bad for everybody. It still took a while, but finally he was removed and it makes live much better. It can work. I went looking for another job too, een quit for a year or so. But I really hated it, cause I liked my job and I did not want to have to go because of such a pain-in-the-ass-boss!! Keep up your strength. I am glad to hear other things are OK in your life.

Lots of love to all of you

AJ

B1: Submit
Date: Thursday, January 18, 2001

S1

Hi All. Sharon here. Well, things have been silent on my front. After our big scene on Sunday, after catching Ron at the possibility of him staying overnight at someone else's house (remember, the newspaper being on his porch for most of the day), I left it "at that." I left "it". After a long, hard look at the situation, 18 months of total abuse in all areas, I decided to not push for more information. He won't tell me the truth anyhow. If I was to call him right now and say meekly "can we talk?" or something equally weak, he'll get abusive. I know this - so why give him even more power? I think the best way to regain my own power is to just walk away. So phone call, no e-mail, no nothing. To me, that will be making a big statement, because he is expecting me to "react" with further contact. To date, I have made none. Hopefully, I can stay strong.

Hugs, Sharon

B1: Submit
Date: Friday, January 19, 2001

S1

Hi AJ,

THANKS for the encouragement. It is funny because when I hear of others being at the stage I was previously at I see how far I truly have come.

AJ I have another mountain to climb and need some support so here goes: If I am not practical in the case of screwing screws into wood, or unscrewing screws etc Do You think a non practical sort can become practical? OR do you think we are what we are?

Thanks so much all of you here who got me so far long my path of growth.

Love Theressa

B1: Submit
Date: Friday, January 19, 2001

S1

HI All,

Something just came up and I want to work on it, I hope you can all offer me insights and help working on solutions to this problem.

I re-read a letter and reply from this site which I copied and kept to refer back to. The letter describes a common problem co-dependent types have, that is being too accommodating. The letter is about a lady who complains that people (friends) make plans with her and then without informing her make other plans and then just not turn up. The lady in the letter never did this, she made arrangements and kept them religiously. She was so angry and fed up since her friends never shared the value of courtesy. DR Irene told her that she need to distance her self. She did and then her friends rang to find out why she didn't contact them.

Anyway now to my problem I would like insight on: Well I have a busy life. I am doing a part time degree course, I have a full time job and a daughter of 7 years old. HOWEVER, I have only one person I call my friend. I have work pals, but they aren't friends. I know different people but they aren't friends. I even have people I haven't seen for a while and they are acquaintances. BUT really I only have one friend that I go out to the pub etc with. This friend has lots of friends. She works part time and doesn't study and spends lots of time at two of her other friends houses, (she met these two at her daughter's school). She also knows lots of people from her local pub, so she has no trouble finding someone to GO OUT on the town with or to the pub.

Me on the other hand I don't have anyone else to go out with only my friend. OH her friends make me feel welcome but they are her friends. They don't see me when she is not around. I don't have a lot of time to spend with friends. I go to see my ONE and only friend maybe once a week or maybe once a fortnight. Unless we plan to go out which we do every few weeks.

The trouble is when we go out it is when its convenient for my ONE and only friend. You see she works part time and never works on a Friday. ME I work full time so YES I work on a Friday. Secondly my friend's ex who her child is to lives far away now. (He didn't used to and for 9 years didn't, but now he does - he used to mind her child, now he can't much) She has a child of 9 years old who has only ever stayed with her dad, her mom and her grandma so she won't stay with anyone else. SO my friend can only go out on a Friday. When he mom (the child's grandma) will baby sit.

I don't like going out much on a Friday after work, I am tired and feel rushed. Plus my daughter goes to dancing classes early Saturday morning. The baby sitting isn't so much of a problem for me on a Friday or a Saturday cuz recently my EX started minding our daughter every fortnight on a Friday one fortnight and a Saturday the other, so ONCE a month I can make a Friday night to go out.

It just annoys me that I have to fit in with my friend all the time. EVEN before when it was almost impossible for me to get a baby sitter on a Friday my friend NEVER changed her plans. It was well its tough I can only get a baby sitter for Friday so that is when I am going out. The other two girls just fit in with her plans. She never tried to ask her mom to have her child on Saturday instead. Her mom goes to Bingo on a Saturday.

So what angers me is, I was meant to just fit in with my friend. So it was either I get a sitter and go out Friday or ELSE It is TOUGH!! I have to fit in with her.

I told my friend I can't go out much on a Friday she said "Well it is the only time I can, I can't expect my mom to miss Bingo".

My friend does ring me and has been there for me through all my troubles with my X. She is good fun.

The only thing I could say that I don't like about her is she wants everyone else to accommodate her. EVEN her boyfriend accommodates, her he is like a doormat, she pushed him away for 10 months, she finished things with him. THOUGH he still rang her for 8 weeks, then one day on New Years Eve he didn't ring her, she panicked. She cried to me. We were out on the TOWN having fun, I met a guy, she said "I wish Steve would ring me, maybe he has decided I am no good for him." THOUGH he did ring her the following day and told her he was just busy.

So you see everyone seems to accommodate this woman. IT makes me mad, she isn't a QUEEN, why should I accommodate her.

Though I do want to be her friend.

How can I be healthy and not so needy? How can I change my behaviour so she doesn't treat me this way? WHY is it I only have one friend? And she has loads? What is her secret?

Is this because I am co-dependent that I am treated this way.

Thanks for listening and helping me recover.

May God bless Theressa

 

B1: Submit
Date: Friday, January 19, 2001

S1

**HELP PLEASE****

 

HI All,

Something just came up and I want to work on it, I hope you can all offer me insights and help working on solutions to this problem.

I re-read a letter and reply from this site which I copied and kept to refer back to. The letter describes a common problem co-dependent types have, that is being too accommodating. The letter is about a lady who complains that people (friends) make plans with her and then without informing her make other plans and then just not turn up. The lady in the letter never did this, she made arrangements and kept them religiously. She was so angry and fed up since her friends never shared the value of courtesy. DR Irene told her that she need to distance her self. She did and then her friends rang to find out why she didn't contact them.

Anyway now to my problem I would like insight on: Well I have a busy life. I am doing a part time degree course, I have a full time job and a daughter of 7 years old. HOWEVER, I have only one person I call my friend. I have work pals, but they aren't friends. I know different people but they aren't friends. I even have people I haven't seen for a while and they are acquaintances. BUT really I only have one friend that I go out to the pub etc with. This friend has lots of friends. She works part time and doesn't study and spends lots of time at two of her other friends houses, (she met these two at her daughter's school). She also knows lots of people from her local pub, so she has no trouble finding someone to GO OUT on the town with or to the pub.

Me on the other hand I don't have anyone else to go out with only my friend. OH her friends make me feel welcome but they are her friends. They don't see me when she is not around. I don't have a lot of time to spend with friends. I go to see my ONE and only friend maybe once a week or maybe once a fortnight. Unless we plan to go out which we do every few weeks.

The trouble is when we go out it is when its convenient for my ONE and only friend. You see she works part time and never works on a Friday. ME I work full time so YES I work on a Friday. Secondly my friend's ex who her child is to lives far away now. (He didn't used to and for 9 years didn't, but now he does - he used to mind her child, now he can't much) She has a child of 9 years old who has only ever stayed with her dad, her mom and her grandma so she won't stay with anyone else. SO my friend can only go out on a Friday. When he mom (the Childs grandma) will baby sit.

I don't like going out much on a Friday after work, I am tired and feel rushed. Plus my daughter goes to dancing classes early Saturday morning. The baby sitting isn't so much of a problem for me on a Friday or a Saturday cuz recently my EX started minding our daughter every fortnight on a Friday one fortnight and a Saturday the other, so ONCE a month I can make a Friday night to go out.

It just annoys me that I have to fit in with my friend all the time. EVEN before when it was almost impossible for me to get a baby sitter on a Friday my friend NEVER changed her plans. It was well its tough I can only get a baby sitter for Friday so that is when I am going out. The other two girls just fit in with her plans. She never tried to ask her mom to have her child on Saturday instead. Her mom goes to Bingo on a Saturday.

So what angers me is, I was meant to just fit in with my friend. So it was either I get a sitter and go out Friday or ELSE It is TOUGH!! I have to fit in with her.

I told my friend I can't go out much on a Friday she said "Well it is the only time I can, I can't expect my mom to miss Bingo".

My friend does ring me and has been there for me through all my troubles with my X. She is good fun.

The only thing I could say that I don't like about her is she wants everyone else to accommodate her. EVEN her boyfriend accommodates, her he is like a doormat, she pushed him away for 10 months, she finished things with him. THOUGH he still rang her for 8 weeks, then one day on New Years Eve he didn't ring her, she panicked. She cried to me. We were out on the TOWN having fun, I met a guy, she said "I wish Steve would ring me, maybe he has decided I am no good for him." THOUGH he did ring her the following day and told her he was just busy.

So you see everyone seems to accommodate this woman. IT makes me mad, she isn't a QUEEN, why should I accommodate her.

Though I do want to be her friend.

How can I be healthy and not so needy? How can I change my behaviour so she doesn't treat me this way? WHY is it I only have one friend? And she has loads? What is her secret?

Is this because I am co-dependent that I am treated this way.

Thanks for listening and helping me recover.

May God bless Theressa

 

B1: Submit
Date: Friday, January 19, 2001

S1

Dear Cat Box,

Lynn here, and isn't it funny, when thing start working, they start working? It's not that I don't think of you, I do, but I seem to have acquired a life out of the cat box. :) With Dan, too. Yippeee! This doesn't mean that I'm never going to have a problem and never be back, but I can remember days when I did nothing but read and post ALL day long.

Must mean things are better for me. Dan can take care of his own better. Is that what you've been saying Trubble? Meow-yes!

Dear Dr. Irene, I guess this is what you mean. Dan and I still ask if we've heard about so and so or someone, but just don't make it our life anymore. I guess that means we are doing better, because it isn't as important to our lives. Good!

I haven't even read the boards since my last post and thought I'd better say howdy. I also think this is working better because Dan was here, too, and got the loving and caring support that I did. It does take two and its funny, but he must be doing his work, I just don't make it an issue that he has to. I'm just doing my thing and loving it.

Love and Prayers to all of you,

Lynn

B1: Submit
Date: Friday, January 19, 2001

S1

Yuk--get a job LOL---where did you graduate from-----"A legend in your own Mind." School of look at me LOL~~~~~good luck

B1: Submit
Date: Friday, January 19, 2001

S1

Hey Theressa - I'm not AJ but I think you can learn anything if you really want to. I can't draw a straight line, but I'm learning to do stained glass - cutting it, soldering it, all those manly type things :) I'm not very mechanical, or particularly good at household repairs or maintenance so I'm looking at trading some of my skills for others who *are* more capable. I know I could learn if I really wanted to - it's all a matter of priorities.

Theressa - why let your friend's inflexibility about her schedule anger you? It seems to me that she is doing what's right for *her* schedule, which isn't selfish or bad. You can still be her friend and not accommodate her unless it feels okay to you. I would say that you are depending on her friendship too much, and maybe it's time for you to reach out to new friends. You can't do anything to control how she treats you and it achieves nothing to get upset about it.

Lynn

I relate to what you are saying. I'm still hanging around here, but I'm happy to do other things too.

Also, I do feel that having Steve here has been a real advantage. Even when we seem nasty, at least we are still talking on some level. I think we've both learned a lot and I'm just starting to "see" the results of the work (which isn't over yet).

It was so pleasant today, because I was really crabby last night and this morning over meeting a deadline. There were things we could have done differently to avoid being so rushed and I was able to express this to Steve without any major blowout. We got the thing done and we still liked each other in the end. Steve seemed okay with me being crabby - that's big progress! I didn't feel like being "nice" anyway!

And I'm taking note of how much I feel that when Steve does or doesn't do "such and such", I autopilot into "it's my fault". This is going to change. Yay! It helps because Steve actually pointed it out instead of *making* it my fault, which would have been easy to do. Lots of changes! 

Must get going. Take care all.

Asha

B1: Submit
Date: Saturday, January 20, 2001

S1

Dear Theressa. I just read your post about the friend. I can relate to the few friend's bit as I found full time work and keeping up friendships really hard. To me it sounded like maybe you need to take the lead in asking your friend to come out and do something on a night that suits you. Often I have found it is that people just don't think.

I do hope you can work it out though as at least she does care about you and ring. Maybe it would be good to try talking more to the friends friends if you like them and then arranging something with one of them?

I don't know really, these are just my thoughts.

Dear all,

I really would like some feedback on this and please don't feel afraid of offending me. I went to see the Psych yesterday. In a nutshell, she said. 'Whatever you were before you are now totally self absorbed in how things affect you. Yes, bad things have happened and I am not denying them but all you talk was about is how other people's behaviour affects you. You are not thinking any more how your behaviour affects other people.' She wasn't going to let me off the hook...Actually she said a lot more than this which I don't feel able to share. Ended by saying she had said a lot that many people would have been very angry at her for saying. Perhaps shouting at her...I just said I agreed with her. (And thought it was about time I heard if that was what she was seeing).

(I did tell her last time I wanted a therapist like Dr Irene and her whole approach had changed this time. Also it was her last day in the hospital and so maybe she was braver than usual.)

I never didn't believe in facing up to my faults. I think the therapist was right. At the same time I still feel I am the victim and need to accept and express that. That happens when you feel helpless, even though you're really not, but you just don't know what else to do/feel. If I am really honest, I think since I got ill with depression I started to treat people as if they were things. That's not unusual in depression. The depression started when something really bad happened to me. Never forget that whatever it is, you CAN deal...

Is this coming across in my posts to the Catbox? I mean about the self absorption? Now that you mention it, yes Jay. I think you got some good feedback, certainly something you can do something about! (It's a wonderful exercise to spend a few days asking yourself how others experience you.)   

I have to move on. The therapist said she couldn't help and she had found it difficult she couldn't help me move on. In fact, unless I agree to the family therapy then she wouldn't keep me on the books at all. Her reasoning seemed to be I was very resourceful and that only I could work on myself to put the intellectual and emotional back into balance. I can't not agree with that. Excellent advice.

it was all pretty painful but felt like a good pain. Like maybe I could move on if I heard her. Like maybe the choices were mine again. They always have been. Even when you refused to accept them.

But then Jake comes into the equation and I get all unsure again. Don't go there. He is too important to you. When you feel off balance, take some down time to find your center again.

Things with my daughter went really fine. She is returning to her bedsit today but only as she has things arranged with friends and I think we will see her for dinner. We are close again: Lot's of regression to being much younger on my daughter's part over and above the normal teenage stuff. But mainly at least it is regression to wanting to be 'mothered.' Not so much of the rest of it. But with her at least I am getting better at the boundary keeping. I think I am still in control. I am very wary of getting too happy about this and taking a day at a time. One thing established though is I think she is back to realising I am always there for her even if I set boundaries on the behaviour I will accept. And not a hint of her aggression. Kids feel safer when parents set boundaries.

I have read the other posts and am thinking about you all. and will post again when the phone is reconnected at my house as I forgot to pay the bill again. Giggle!

Thanks, Jay

B1: Submit
Date: Saturday, January 20, 2001

S1

Dear Jay,

Find another therapist! That one sounds abusive! To me, it sounds like she was counter-transferring and over-identifying with your issues, which was why she couldn't help you. What an awful experience. Never be afraid to fire a therapist who can't relate. I had one who said I was provoking my partner after he had threatened me. She was completely sympathetic to my partner. Therapists are people too, and they have as many problems as we ordinary folks do. I felt bad for the person who was dating one who turned out to be so controlling. Just because someone has a degree and a high level of intelligence does not give them the right to misuse their brain to diminish others.

Anyway, shop around for a GOOD therapist! 

Next question: What the heck is this? I wondered same. "Yuk--get a job LOL---where did you graduate from-----"A legend in your own Mind." School of look at me LOL~~~~~good luck"

What's an LOL and who is this from and stay out of the discussion if you can't be polite! LOL is "lots of laughs." I didn't see this post as impolite.

Kathleen

 

B1: Submit
Date: Saturday, January 20, 2001

S1

HELPPPP!

I have posted previously on Jan 4 2001.

It has been 2 months since I have any contact of any sort with my family.

I missed my son's second birthday. My children's Christmas. As well as my stepdaughters 7th birthday. Not of choice. I am not even allowed to mail a Christmas card to them.

I feel so lost. A tremendous part of me is gone. Vanished.

But I know they still exist, just moments away.

I just can't believe this is happening. I am 36. Desperate for my family. I miss my kids so much. I ended up silently balling in the bathroom, because someone had brought a baby to a friends place I was visiting. She was a darling, I thought of my own children. Felt immediately devastated.

Damn it.

Why?

Why? For the things you've done. The good news is you can work on yourself so that type of stuff doesn't happen anymore. Start by getting out of the pity pot as soon as you can. The why stuff won't help and it won't change anything. All it will do is make you miserable. Accept what has happened, since there is no other sane choice and ask yourself how you can spend your energy improving yourSelf!

Heartbroken

 

B1: Submit
Date: Sunday, January 21, 2001

S1

Dr Irene, Been in abusive relationship for years, but am awake now. I no longer engage and am very cautious right now because the highs and lows are fast and furious. He swings faster than blinking. Just recently I have been down with a virus and he knows this. Today he asked me what was wrong and told him my tummy was nauseous. He then said how bout I punch you in the stomach and make you throw up. Up until now it has been verbal and emotional abuse. Is this the next step. Tweety I would look into a restraining order. He threatened you.

 

B1: Submit
Date: Sunday, January 21, 2001

S1

Dear Cat Box,

Lynn here, problem solved. Well, at least one of them. Tried a little romance tonight and the dog jumped on the bed and landed on my eye with her paw. Nobody will believe the dog did it, so I might as well say Dan did.

We found a cure!!!! She has a Kong toy. These are round really tough (apparently not Firestone) rubber toys that are hollow in the middle. You put a treat in the hollow. Dan went and got her Kong toy and put a glob of peanut butter in it and threw it down the hall.

She's more interested in the peanut butter than our sex life.

So if you read between the lines, you may assume things are better around here. I just wanted to share my new found dog on the bed cure. Talk about preparation for intimacy!

Trubble, we got some gorgeous pix of LOCO. I could tell it was his roll by the way DaddyDan was smiling while looking. Hard not to have GORGEOUS pix of a GORGEOUS kitty; that's my little brother - and he takes after *Me*!

We are going to try and put them on a web page. That ought to take me 9 months. I can't wait!

DragonMommy loves the All American Cat Box President. Submit your vote today. I vote for Trubble. Shhhh... Don't tell anybody, but I'm the "brains" behind GeorgieCat. We're related, I'm sure. He may even be RealDaddy... OK DragonMommy...promise not to tell!

I think of you all and hope all is going well. I don't even read the boards much. Doesn't mean I don't care, might just mean that we got it out of our systems and now we're doing the interaction between ourselves rather than needing the Cat Box.

Thanks Doc and pass on the word to ALL my friends and dog lovers. Kong toys for safe sex!

And truly thanks Dr. Irene's Cat, It was quite a few months there. Thanks DragonMommy. Love to FakeDaddyDan *Me*

Love, Prayers and Happy Trails,

Lynn

B1: Submit
Date: Sunday, January 21, 2001

S1

Tweety:

This business about punching you in the stomach sounds serious. You ask if it is the next step in an abusive relationship? Sounds like he is trying to go there. Be careful. Why are you staying?

Sandra

B1: Submit
Date: Sunday, January 21, 2001

S1

Dear Heartbroken, It sounds like you are hurting, but I'm wondering why you are asking why this is happening. Not being allowed to contact your family is pretty serious. What do you have to do to be able to see your children again? Sounds to me like it's time to focus on your own recovery and stop worrying about your ex. Yes. Letting them go for now is part of your recovery... It is really hard to let go, I know, but necessary in order to move ahead. I hope you do the right thing, so you can have happiness in your future and with your children. HealingHeart

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