Comments for Cat Box 2Material
posted here is intended for educational purposes only, and must not be
considered a substitute for informed advice from your own health care
provider.
B1: Submit S1Trubble and the Doc are with you guys tonight. May God bless y'all...
B1: Submit S1Dear Everyone, Lynn Here, Just a quick update. Had a BIG emergency and HAD to get somewhere else quick. All ok and all safe now, but the biggie on another form of abuse. I love MY car and it runs great, is reliable, kept in the shop for all sorts of oil change, tune up, etc. It runs like a Porche because I take great pride in keeping this little baby still running great. The day of the emergency I had Dan's truck. I don't feel he takes care of it and long ago we dealt with you take care of yours and I'll take care of mine. Well, I've got his and he asks me to get out of town and quick, just in case, then he would know we were safe. (Good for him :) Fair enough. I did, in a vehicle that was 3 quarts of transmission fluid low. No dip stick to check the oil and very little gas in HIS truck. Until this happens people never think this would be necessary and if he knew this emergency was coming up, I know he would have had me ready so he would know I was safe. I would have been, too, in MY CAR. Tough lesson and pretty frightening, but now I think he realizes, part of love is knowing if I have to do something, his part is to have everything ready for me to do it "just in case." Dear Becky, I'm thinking of you. Haven't had time to read the posts,
but Trubble has my permission to give you my email address. I try to
read mail everyday and I'm thinking of you. I hope you are well.
Becky, if you send me your email address here, I'll take that as
permission to send it to Lynn and vice versa. Love and purrs to both of
you... Trubble Lynn
B1: Submit S1Hi LW, Well you woke up, so have i recently. I want to ask Dr Irene, Trubble, or even you, why this time I left I feel stronger. I know its not worth selling my soul for the material things. I know I'll get by and I know that I have support. I also know I have played a role in all this. I admit without being defensive. I am in therapy had one session. I've cried a little, I've even felt sad some days. BUT: How come I am not blubbering, does this mean I am not grieving. How come I am not in tears day and night. IS this normal?? I haven't fell to pieces, I've sorted myself out financially and started to sort out my new home. I have things in my life to do. Is this normal??? A question to a question: Does it feel good to leave pain? Take care Theressa
B1: Submit S1Dear Theressa, This is Lynn (LW). I woke up, but mine woke up, too, and he is really giving this an effort. I know that when I wrote that 1st letter I had done all the grieving before making the decision to go. Making the decision set my mind free somehow and that made me feel so much better. I no longer needed sleeping pills to rest, Mylanta because my stomach was torn in knots. I'd bet the grieving will come so stay in therapy so you have support to fall back on. Stay here, too, so you have the support of others going through this. It is such a tough decision to make. Go slowly. I'm thinking of you. I wish you a happy life and I send you lots of
prayers. Lynn Us too.
B1: Submit S1Dear Becky, When I first wrote to this site I was so close to despair. We weren't talking and living in separate rooms. It wasn't a last ditch effort to get him back when I showed him what I wrote; It was my last attempt to tell him what I was feeling. I had every intention to GO and go soon. I showed him this so he would see why I was leaving. He read the posts, etc. for two days and then he wrote, too. Can this be me? Can I be doing this? Dr. Irene wrote him back. YES I tried to get Dan to read about everything else and nothing connected. If you choose to show him this maybe he'll take it as a wake up call, too, but if he doesn't, then maybe it will give you the strength to go. I don't know. I've been REAL busy lately and you are extra special to me. One of the sisters in law. Please contact me at my email if you wish as I can't get on the boards all the time, but I have been checking my mail every day that I can. I'm thinking of you, Lynn
B1: Submit S1Hi Lynn, Thanks, I did a lot of crying the first four weeks, whilst we were still in the house together, I cried about how poor old me was losing her family, all the material things. Then I came to the conclusion peace and self love were more worthy. BUT yes I guess I'll start to grieve as I uncover the sheet in therapy. You will grieve; you will rejoice... Thanks Theressa
B1: Submit S1Theressa, I've been grieving quite a lot. Sometimes I cry so hard it hurts! I need to do that, as unpleasant as it is, because I've learned that if I don't, if I hold it all in, I feel worse . I was divorced once before. I never intended to go through that again. Knowing that I may have to, to save my physical and emotional health breaks my heart. I grieve all the time for the loss of my dream, for the scars and wounds I have, for the rotten example my husband has been to my boys (thank the Lord they have a decent man for a dad, and that he's always been involved in their lives!). I grieve for the home I gave up, for uprooting my kids so I could marry him. I'm sure that as you progress in your therapy, lots of painful things will come up. But feeling the pain, I believe, is the first step toward dealing with it and leaving it behind. Take care! becky
B1: Submit S1Dear Ones, Lynn here, Thank you all so much. We've been having quite an exciting few days. Dan has been working 18 hour plus shifts and so of course he hasn't had time to sleep, let alone work on us. We are good and strong together at times like this. We've even had a few laughs. He has made the time to read the posts. See, there is progress. God, Buddha or the White Buffalo can send down messages at times. Hey!
Forgot me already? Hissss.... He was right. I did. I caught 6 of the 7 cats, leashed the dogs, grabbed the birds and then my purse. I came back in the house and looked around to see what I "forgot or needed". In brief few seconds, I could not think of one thing that was such a priority that I had to stay and pack. There were a few glimmers, but even the photographs are replaceable, as the family has copies. So I grabbed a 12 pack of Coke and hit the road. Really makes you think of what is important and what isn't. He was wonderful at this time and I appreciate this more than I can say. We were lucky, blessed and are very happy to be back home. The support of you here (especially Trubble and the Doc) gives us strength. Meow. It was all me. Dan reads his mail and I've started calling it his fan mail. He has heard from some people from my past even and it makes him feel so good that so many people care. Quite a pat on the back, too, and he deserves it. Yes he does Lynn. Regards to Dan. Trubble, stop living up to your name! I do care abut all of you and you were in my thoughts often. We might be one of the few couples who works it out and makes it, but there is still strength in the posts as we can read them and say, "did I really do that?" Me, too. I can see where he would do one thing and I would respond from the gut and not the heart. I think you guys can do it. Certainly enough of your "issues" became clear over the past weeks. This is great! Gives you the power to tackle this stuff. Wish us luck and he'll be jumping back in in the next couple of weeks Thanks Doc, Pounce for Trubble & Love, Laughter and Tears, We're all with you Lynn. Dr. I. Lynn
B1: Submit S1Dear Doctor Irene, Well now I've done it and I'm in the cat box. Slipped right into VICTIM and I haven't had to face the music yet. All was going well. Semblance of "Normalcy", and I went and got the mail. I bounced a check ! Ah, shoot ! "We don't bounce checks" (We do now). I called the guy, told myself no big deal as we have the money to cover it (under $40.00), it was for groceries. Told myself this is ok as I had lots going on and just because I didn't do my math, doesn't make me a criminal. Hey, we're all allowed to make mistakes. Easily fixable ones like this are the best! I've seen Dan angry at me. He can clench his teeth, get his eyes steely blue, stare at me and say in a soft voice, "Well, I guess I'll have to do whatever......." and then it never gets mentioned again. I know this isn't the end of the world, nobody is going to die because of my carelessness, etc. This is really silly, but this is where verbal abuse finally gets to me. I was glad I had Mylanta still around as I am in knots. I am praying he has had enough of these posts to say the right thing. I am terrified that he hasn't and as he's been working hard and had very little sleep.........ah, poop. Lynn, no doubt Dan needs to work on his communication skills. But, be careful: pay attention to that internal critic - so you can turn it off! Your critic just makes anything he says yukkier! Try, as you calm down, to begin to disengage and not let other people's feelings get to you so. He can be mad at me, that's ok, I'm mad at myself. I'm just not healthy enough for any more mind games. NOBODY is healthy enough for mind games... Thank you for the kitty. Brought tears to my eyes. Awwwww
shucks... You are so easy to please! Just wait till you see this newly
retooled pix
of *Me* Love, Laughter and Tears, Lynn
B1: Submit S1My Darling Trubble, I hadn't forgotten you. I was saving you for the BIG stuff. Letting
you take a cat nap so we could get through this. I love your Picture.
Thanks. :) Meow! A few years ago, Dan was going to buy me a table at a garage sale. It was $65 dollars. I loved the table, but thought that was too much for a handmade table that could be made with one sheet of plywood. He suggested I draw a sketch of it and maybe he'd try and make me one like it. I had a birthday and was given cash. About 2 weeks later the table was for sale for $18.75 so I bought it. I was elated with the "bargain" and told Dan about it when he came home. He "blew his stack!" He told me he didn't tell me I could have it. I answered one word. "What?" Well, he said, what I meant was were are you going to put it? I told him where I was going to put it! Down hill from there:( Meowouchhh... I never did figure out what I did wrong. Never solved, never resolved and this brought that up again. If he was THAT mad at me for $18. He's going to kill me for $34. I would have loved to know he would have come home and said, OH, No! We'll, fix it Monday. PERIOD. Yeah. You have to remind him of this stuff so he doesn't take his frustration out on you. I emailed Becky and right away knew what to do. We have a private little one word joke (we can share with you only). I got the movie Hocus Pocus and watched it. Cried a little (new for me) and decided half of this was in my presentation, too. I couldn't meet him at the door and say, "I bounced a check, so do you want to make something out of it Buster?" Giggle! I could have hidden it for about a week but that's not my style, so I did the best I could, thanks to you. I left it out and went to bed and I haven't seen him yet. At least I am not terrorized by this anymore (really bad human, huh? Meow! Bad Human.) :) And if he knows about it. I had a good night's sleep and can at least deal with it like I should. i.e.. call the guy (I did), transfer $$ (I will), say I'm sorry and forget about it. Don't forget to offer to pay his bounce fee... This site is reading like my own personal diary. Good for Dan to read. And refer to when he's not paying attention, which will be often at first. Ah well, One day I aim to get this stuff over with and be able to remember you on your birthday and Christmas. My Favorite Human... Uh, second favorite. You know the saying about the hand that feeds you... So, see, Trubble, the Doc has some serious stuff to help with in "Reading the posts, sex abuse". And YOU can handle this "Little stuff" in the cat box. Thank you for being here when I needed you and thank you, too Becky. Say Hi to the Doc. And get this - The check I bounced was for cat food, kitty litter and a few other essentials (like a toothbrush). Giggle! So I will kick out of victim, not jump to abuser and handle this like a responsible adult and he can go "witch" ever way he wants. Purrrrrrs of Love, Lynn Meow!
B1: Submit S1Trubble Dear It's Lynn here, answering herself again. I GOT IT ! It only took me 2 weeks and the last 36 hours. Where I excel. I abhor phone solicitors and am GREAT at saying, "I don't do business over the phone." If they persist I say, "Take me off your calling list." Yet it seldom gets that far. There is something in my quiet tone that shouts out that I will not be a sale. I resent the intrusion and if I were interested, I would call them. (I just had a call). Not angry, not rude, just firm. Is this basically the definition of disengage? Meow. Sounds good to me. Not get all emotionally involved, like the other person was mad at you or something. Like you recognize if the sales person is pushy, it has nothing to do with you. Maybe he's even pms-ing or something. I was reacting to all the ways Dan was going to react from past actions and I was just not up to any of them. I beat myself enough to let him come home and do it to me, too. Exactly what the Doc meant when she told you somewhere to drop your internal critic, or whoever it is that anticipates the worse and thinks somehow that YOU did something WRONG... What I think I learned: When he starts in (and he will), turn him into solicitor in my mind and refuse to Buy what he is selling. Meow! Yeah. Buy it only if you like it. (By the way, I really love mixed grill, hint, hint.) As for what I did "wrong" when I bought that table.... Nothing. It was his problem, right? She got it! Good Human! Am I learning new tricks? Purrrr... Shall I try this? Please tell the Doc that I got it days ago that I should have "told" his mother, not made him. Never occurred to me that I could have. The Doc knows that. That's what you have to pay attention to when you become more mindful of yourself: Stop putting yourself last. Verrrry codependent. What you want/don't want; like/don't like, etc., etc. is as valid as what any other person in the world wants, likes, etc. Nobody has to agree with you or approve of your decision. Spent years with, "Well, it's ok, after all she is my mother." ETC. Hisssssss..... Soooooooo!! I'll bet I was making it sound like it was his fault he has a abusive mother. More like you were mad at him that he didn't have the courage or motivation to confront his mom on your behalf. And instead of getting in front of him to protect him, I should be behind him if/when he gets the strength to protect himself. If and when, yes. Meanwhile, take care of myself, right? Purrrrrrrrr.... I was really afraid I would hear 2 years down the road, "So, tell me about the time you bounced the check," when we were on another subject. So?......, It's over. If he drags it up that will be his last 2 minutes. Purrrrr..... I remember something I said in quiet despair a few arguments ago. "Dan, there is so little of me left." How true. What a shame we let it go this far. Yeah. He messed up his part and you messed up your part by letting him get away with all sorts of yukky stuff. Purrs, Mixed Grill You remembered! , and
Huggums, Lynn
B1: Submit S1Thanks Trubble Dear, This is Lynn Again. I think I know where I lost it. Episodes like
this. "Dan, I don't feel like we talk enough." This turned
into a week and a half marathon of him trying to convince me he did talk
to me. He just wore me down. I never did get him to see that if I didn't
feel we talked, we didn't. Just show him this:
Dan, if she doesn't feel you talked, she doesn't feel you talked. No
evidence you may present will change her opinion. Spend your energy
finding out how it is she feels this way. Don't defend yourself. Nothing
to be defensive about. Just one such of many examples. Should I have stuck to my guns? (Poor term, we don't have any). Thanks and Seafood Suppers, Hi to the Doc, Lynn
B1: Submit S1Dear Dr. Irene, Hi Becky and those that are still with me. Meow, Trubble, As you know, I am in this alone for a week or two, so it leaves a lot of time for self analysis. I almost jumped to the site where therapy didn't work, but I think I'll stay here were I feel safe. As my first sentence says to the Doc, "You don't have to answer this." I can hear me saying NOBODY listens to me, why should you? What first started us in therapy was the "Stupidest" (I wasn't allowed this in therapy, "name calling!") fight I ever got into in my life. It was over a turkey. ! My sister n law poked holes in the turkey so it would bleed juices so she had good gravy. (We work quite well in the kitchen). Well, when Dan and I were alone I got the giggles. The reason we baste a turkey is to keep the skin moist and keep the juices in so the meat stays juicy. No big deal. I don't even like turkey..........so, Dan apologizes for ruining my dinner. He didn't, and I told him so. The next thing I know, my daughter calls me up and tells me to get off poor Dan's back for ruining my dinner. Enough said, this story goes on and on. I finally did disengage after writing him a note that this wasn't a problem, never was and to let it go. He didn't. Lynn, what happened is that Dan got defensive. He tries so very hard to do the right thing, he felt terribly that his sister (translation: him) ruined your dinner. That's all he heard. That's why he's got to work on his boundaries and on it being OK for anybody, including him, to mess up. Nobody's going to beat him up for making a mistake anymore. He finally got a therapist, and then we both went. He had her convinced that I was mad at him and she couldn't understand why I wouldn't let him off the hook - after all, he apologized. Did you tell the therapist what you said here? Or, was there more than a grain of truth to what you were saying. Was your comment tinged with passive aggressive anger towards her, not necessarily for the turkey, but for other stuff? Then she gave us the rules of fair fighting. This really went downhill. I felt they were for me to follow and for Dan to do what he wanted. With a few, "she (the therapist) saids" thrown at me for good measure. I'm not sure I know what happened here. One other was a SERIOUS matter about Dan's daughter and he called his ex-wife. No problem. I said it was no problem. I saw no reason why I had to stay in the same room and listen to him talk with her, so I went back to the bedroom and watched a movie. OK. The next time we went to therapy Dan told her I was mad at him because he talked to his ex wife for 3 1/2 hours. Not true, never was, never will be. I told her this and then got that Dan must have felt there was something wrong etc. and we would have to work on this so I didn't feel I was "angry" when Dan had to talk to his ex. I'm beginning to get the picture. If there's any passive aggressive stuff going on at all, it's small compared with Dan's expectations for Dan. He couldn't understand that you trusted him and apparently mistook your doing your own thing for anger... He wanted you to police him so you could know he was on the up and up... But these are only 2 of the examples. The list goes on, including don't take away his intimacy with me as he was working so hard on his co-dependency. Page 9 in 5 years is not really burning the books, but I went along for a while. She had me do the Pia Melody Workbook. I did. She suggested thai since it upset Dan, I should quit talking to his sister in law (and my friend) as ALL we ever talked about was his mother. I didn't, but I only talked to her when he was at work. Oh boy. Sounds like you had a codependent therapist... Lots, lots and lots more. I have to go back to my first sentence. He did not hear me say there was no big deal about the turkey. I know he needed to talk to the ex (very serious business and I would have been mad if they didn't join together on this). So, do I have to sit and listen? I still don't think so. I would come out of there (therapy) feeling whipped or else go in and shout to her, "Don't you hear what I'm saying?" Apparently not. Not all bad, but totally missed the verbal abuse he was dishing out. The poor little ole me and I told her I'm sorry and she just won't accept it. I flat refused to let him apologize for ruining dinner or for talking to his ex. But how many times did I have to say he didn't ruin dinner or it didn't bother me if he talked to his ex? An uneducated about abuse codependent therapist? Somehow therapy had me pitying him and overindulging him because this was so hard on him and he had such a tough childhood, etc. I'm not sure she said this directly, but that is the impression I came out of there with. Like when he resolved all of his childhood issues, we would work things out. What about here and now and today? She is the one who suggested Hendrix' book, but as a sideline to the therapy. Great book, but not appropriate in an abusive relationship unless the therapist really knows what he or she is doing and can keep each person focused on fixing their own stuff. Venting ? You betcha, feel better, yes I do. I will narrow this down now. Dan, please hear what I say and know that I mean what I say. Period. Please don't translate it into what you think I meant and try to make it better, because it only makes it worse. Excellent request. Also, Dan, keep this in mind: You didn't do anything wrong, and even if you did, it's OK... Thanks, Lynn
B1: Submit S1Lynn, (and Trubble), As I was reading through the posts, I kept thinking about all the craziness, all the times we are confused and running in circles, not understanding what on earth is wrong. I thought of the time I asked my H for a book for my birthday. I just said, Hey! If you're wondering what to get me, here's an idea. He was mad! Said I was ordering him to get me the book! When I explained that I was doing no such thing, he didn't hear me. When I said, okay, if you don't get it, I'll just buy it myself--no big deal, he got MORE mad! This was very early in our marriage, and similar things happen on a regular basis. (He did get me the book). Ugh. After you "paid" dearly for it. I even got into trouble on the first night of our honeymoon because: 1. I didn't walk in with him to check in, and 2. I didn't want to drive around North Platte NE at 12:30 am looking for a non-smoking motel room (we had called ahead and asked for one; they gave us a regular room, and he was mad. I was willing to bear the smoke smell for one night). He said, "I thought I'd marry someone who supported ME." He was oblivious to any views outside his own. That's the biggest problem most angry types have to correct. Breaking their "mind set" to allow in other stuff... I'm not here to tell stories; just to say that there's a whole lot that doesn't make sense in relationships like these. And if we try to make sense of them, we'll go nuts! Becky PS Where is everyone? This isn't the Lynn and Becky show! :)
We'll we're finally back...
B1: Submit S1Dear Becky and Trubble, I love it! The Becky and Lynn show. Isn't it true. Not a lot makes sense in these relationships. One not so funny one. I had a Dr. appointment. Dan's mother wanted a new refrigerator delivered now. After 4 days she hadn't cleaned out the broken one (phew) and so he was tied up for hours. I walked to the Dr. and back. No biggie, but he saw me coming down the street and then the excuses started flying. Yeah, I felt bad and I felt like he forgot me. This became another marathon to explain I didn't have to feel bad, It didn't mean anything, but never an "I'm sorry honey, I got tied up and I did forget. I'm sorry." It would have been the end of the story. So would have making it a point to leave mom's long enough to drive you... This got good when I confronted him about the sex site. He told me I didn't have to feel bad, I didn't have to feel threatened, because I should have seen some of these gals and why did I feel threatened by this when these girls were young enough to be my daughter. Well, he tried... This gets so ridiculous after a while. When I've asked to talk, he goes out and does the dishes. Don't expect him to talk about the sex stuff. How do you explain a obsession and compulsion? It makes no sense. One simple example. He was going to the store one night as we had company and he asked if I needed anything. I said yes, "get me a large can of pork and beans and I'll make baked beans." He came home with a can of baked beans because his friend suggested them. I just get so that I don't now why he asks what I want if he doesn't listen. I've gone so far to suggest he simply get me what he wants me to have. That one sounds reasonable; a typical guy type mistake... I sent my hubby out for "plain, non-fat yogurt this morning; make sure it's not vanilla." I got vanilla. At least it was the right size. This seems so petty compared to some of the abuse going on at these sites, but after years I get so I just don't say a thing rather than get one of these silly dialogues going and then they seem to eat at my innards. Maybe this helps. Now I hope I have these out of my system. I can't seem to get him to understand what I'm saying. This is the gift thing with us. I've mentioned things I'd like to have. Then when one of these comes up and I'd like to talk, Dan goes out and buys me the gift. He's trying to make you happy the best way he knows. Then he can't understand why I'm mad, because he thought I really wanted that. ????????? He's well intended Lynn. Give him a break! What I really don't understand is why they are only willing to work on this when they see us packing. Did you read the Buddha thread? They get into that on the board. "They" are willing to work on this only when they see you packing because they don't "notice" that anything is wrong! Because their own world is too tightly knit together to allow for information from outside to filter in... I've had Dan tell me he doesn't need me to tell him what to do as he already has a mother. I just can't answer that. Even angrily. Doesn't make sense to me. You shouldn't be telling what to do, unless he's trying to tell you what to do. Now if mine would just get home and jump in. I'm willing to give him one more chance, but I feel so weak at the knees that I think one more go around would demolish me. Take care of the self, but you have to get off the defensive too. (Doncha wish we were still on vacation?) Got my check taken care of and thank goodness there was only one. We still haven't talked about it. Haven't had time. Sleepy hello-goodbye is the extent of talk these days. A lesson in patience for me :) What's there to talk about? A casual update is all that's required, I think. A hopefully both of you can giggle at how seriously you took it at first. Boy, do I feel better. Is that because these stay in and don't get resolved, just buried? Maybe now I can let it go. I hope any in earthquake area are fine. Take care, Love to Trubble, Lynn For Lynn: XXXX
B1: Submit S1Hi Lynn I'm sure there are more of us lurking than just you and Becky. Silent observers. I'd give Dan a break about the baked beans/pork and beans problem (not to in any way undermine the other issues). My husband used to ask me to pick up stuff from the grocery store and I usually picked out the wrong brand, or would see a sale for something I thought was "better" and it would usually turn out to be something he didn't want. I think some of us are just grocery shopping deficient. :-) Take care. AK Meow! And I can't tell you how many times she gets me Cat Chow instead of Mixed Grill!
B1: Submit S1Dear AK, Good Morning, Lynn here, Think you are right about beans. "Used" to be that when he didn't hear me I thought he NEVER heard me. Exaggeration because he did hear me sometimes and is doing much better. Yippeee! Your cue to be more careful and less reactive (i.e., too quick to jump the gun) elsewhere too! Glad to hear from you. We had another emergency yesterday (someone else's) but nonetheless we had to get her somewhere else pretty quick and if and when Dan ever gets some sleep and life settles to a mild calm, things are going well. AK, it sounds like you are working on this before it get out of hand. Good. I wish we would have started sooner. Becky, I'm thinking of you. I hope you are well. Hi Trubble, Love to the Doc, too, Handled yesterday well and talked a lot between drive and emergency room. We do work well like this, there is hope. Love, Lynn Meow! And Meow to Dan too.
B1: Submit S1Hi Lynn I'm working on this, but it's still out of hand. My husband and I are separated, and though I see that he is making some positive changes, some things are not changing at all. I have been working a lot on accepting that what I believe would be healthiest for him may not be his path. He has had a philosophy that we should both "be ourselves" which to me means not having to consider the other person when making plans. That's your interpretation. Is that his too? That has changed a bit recently, but it still feels like having to consider me is an effort that is too much for him. Examples are my wanting to have input on how to spend time with his kids Why? They're his kids! (from his previous marriage) and the real biggy - his not partaking in North American traditions. He says it's fine if I do but he doesn't want to. Why are you trying to control him? Why not just let him be? When you don't like the way your partner is behaving, and it has nothing to do with you, you need to let it go... Otherwise you are the codependent control freak! I can't explain why he feels so strongly about this except that he says these are his times to be alone with God, and that he seems to think there's a sheep mentality associated with these traditions. And, it's up to you to respect his feelings - as it is up to him to respect yours. As in "mutual respect." I tried to adapt to this, but I always felt like an element of celebration and creating family roots is missing. He really doesn't understand my feelings. He says that he accepts my celebrating them (which actually hasn't been true at times), just doesn't want to take part. Although we both still care for each other, we have been continually up and down in the relationship and I really need some stability in my life. At this point I don't see any clear solutions, except to let him be and start to put my own needs first. Good. You have to. Put the needs of the self first and everything flows from there. He is a good person, talented and ambitious, but grew up with a very egocentric, disciplinarian father and I don't think he had his own needs met as a child. It seems to me that there is a certain "lack" mentality, that if you get too close or give too much then the other person will take everything from you until there's nothing left. My desires and emotional needs have been interpreted as "demands". In the above examples, you were out of your boundaries and in his space. He also wants me to accept equal blame for the demise of the relationship. I can't do that. I feel like the things I want are reasonable and attainable, and although I'm not perfect I really did try to make it work. I do take responsibility for wanting him to change, which meant that I couldn't accept him or see him for what he was. OK. There is a fine line between not accepting his abuse and not accepting who he is... This is one of the reasons similarity (in culture, values, etc.) is important in marriage. I am facing that I must accept him as is, not for his potential, but for what he is right now. I don't want to live on hope anymore. I do wish the best for him and for me also. Please send positive thoughts and prayers. (I'll do the same back!) take care AK You've got ours!
B1: Submit S1Dear AK, Lynn here. It is nice to hear from you, and small world. My daughter is PG for the 1st time and part North American Indian (through her father) and currently trying to find an Indian Baby name book. (There are some great web sites). We have fun "Roots" on each side and I love doing the family tree. The blending of the current families can be overwhelming, can't it? Dan's daughter hasn't talked to me for 2 years, but under the circumstances (long story), for the better that she got angry with me and it has been fine. It helped her get better, and I think she'll come around someday. I do the same with Dan on the therapy. I was the "witch who 'always' got her own way". When I lost that, I seemed to have slipped. It seems he only wanted to do enough therapy to keep me happy and then he got comfortable and quit and we'd get back to the same rut, only it kept getting worse. Then he'd crack a book and I'd get off his case and he'd quit again. He's going to have to stick it out this time as I'm getting too old for this hassle. He's another great man, and he truly is. He just seems to get stuck in some old business sometimes and I tend to fall in with it lately. I just think we could have had this all behind us by now if we would have kept at it. I've heard from Becky. She sounded well, but busy. I am beginning to wonder what is is with our men (do women do this, too?) YES! that makes change or compromise so threatening. I myself want to work this out so we are both comfortable. I feel he wants to work just enough to get me off his back. This doesn't make sense to me. We're both in this together. But, Lynn, he's not as uncomfortable as you are. He doesn't understand why you are so bothered... My thoughts are with you and love and prayers, too. Take care of yourself. Lynn Hi Trubble! I'm thinking of you, too. Meow!
B1: Submit S1Theressa, How are things with you? I hope they are good. Lynn
B1: Submit S1I agree Lynn - blended families can add several more complications to a relationship. The image most of us have of the happy, secure family where everyone gets along, shares the same values, has mutual respect, willingness to grow and learn together, would be nice to experience in reality, but somehow I think life is supposed to be a little messy. Maybe a lot of us are trying to live up to an ideal that we just can't realistically achieve at this point in life. That doesn't mean you don't still try to make things better, just that if you're not "the Brady bunch" you don't feel so bad about where you are at the moment. AK Ah, AK, thanks for identifying another element of the recovery pot stew: making the best of what you have...
B1: Submit S1Good Afternoon bunch, Lynn here, Hi AK, I loved the "Brady Bunch", actually what I did to/for his daughter wasn't all bad. She was institutionalized and wielded power over her parents. Long long story, but the finale was, she called me and asked me what I thought? I told her! Then I called the Psychologist because I was really tough on her. He laughed and also kept in touch (he had been with the parents). She got so angry at me that she got better and hasn't been "in" since. I can live with that. Dan and I had a big blowup last night. Crux was he decided not to "engage" with me anymore and walked away. Lynn, that's better than blowing up. Never, ever, EVER talk when either one of you are angry! Make an appointment to talk if need be. I felt uncomfortable and felt like a lot of phony theatrics were going on that I couldn't understand (probably were). Probably. I just said, "Times Up". What a relief to me. I feel like I've given all I can give, explained all I could explain and frankly, I don't care "witch" way he goes. Good! Giggle. I feel very relieved today. Couldn't sleep so I prowled all night eating brownies and milk. I'm a genuine night owl anyway, so I slept till 10:30 and I'm feeling better than I've felt for 5 years. Sounds like you "let go" of the idea of making him understand (i.e., agree with) your point of view. That's good. He doesn't have to; he just has to respect it. Is this where the grieving goes? I've grieved. I think this is where disengage comes from. I've said all I have to say (last night) there is nothing else I need for him to know. This sounds like a silly statement, but for years, up to last night, I feel like if I could only "reason with him" and get him to understand Aha! how I feel he'd understand what he's doing to me. I came to the conclusion I may never. Right. And, that's OK. He need not understand any more than you need understand him. You just need to respect each other's space and feelings. Quite a bit of relief, which amazes me. Oh, well, I will not try to analyze it. I think I'll just enjoy the peace. Meow! Good news. I formed quite a bond with both his grandchildren, especially the oldest, and I always have felt that no matter what, she (they) will look up granny some day and we'd pick up where we left off. I still feel this and I'll bet I'm right. :) Didn't they remake the Brady's? I don't watch much TV so I'm not up on it. Does sound like I could get my own soap opera sometimes. Time for a commercial. MIXED GRILL is the BEST :) :) :) Need to get a kitty smiley ^_^ Best I can come up with. Happy Trails, Lynn Yeah!
B1: Submit S1Dear Dan, This one's to/for you. I said before that I feel you read what I say and hear me. Read this: Yesterday we got a sex movie catalog in the mail. When you came home I told you I wanted no more of these. You opened it up and called the take-me-off-your-mailing-list number. OK fine. Then you started packing up the Playboy magazines in front of me and started hauling them out to the dumpster. I asked why? You said you were doing this for me as you knew I was uncomfortable with them. This had been settled years ago. I asked you to get rid of the Penthouse, etc. and the paperbacks of smutty love? stories. I didn't like them in a house where we have children. You did. Then you told me your ex MADE you throw out all of your Playboy's. You have always kept them in a cupboard and I have read the articles myself. What I was uncomfortable with was the 10 or so trips in front of me to dispose of them. I don't know why, but I was. I told you this and you said you were getting rid of these for me. I don't know why, but I felt I was being set up for a SEE, you're just like my ex or something and if front of me I felt was tooooooooo theatrical. I felt it was like the turkey and you weren't listening to me. You told me it was time for you to disengage if I was going to bring up the turkey again. You were going to go take a shower. I apologized about the turkey. Good! I was just trying to say are you listening to me?? Are you going to bring this up to me later - as I won't take it! If so, "Time's up". OK. Enough. He did what you wanted. You asked him not to bring it up again. Just thank him for getting rid of the mags. Today you came home and read my posts. Then you asked me for the newspaper as you were going to move out since "time's up." I really feel you are coming up with tactic's I am unfamiliar with. I did not ask you to get rd of the books nor to move out. I have a yukky feeling about both conversations and I don't need to know why. I do feel yukky and I know I don't like it. I have shaken the cobwebs out of my broom and if you think I'm being a witch again, so be it. I like myself much better with the black cape on and I intend to stay here. Yikes! Are you mad! Chill lady, chill! I don't like what I'm feeling and if you want to move, move. If you want to get into therapy, go. This is good. Or, it would be if you could say the same thing without the anger. Do you know what I really want? I simply want to go boil the pork bone and make a pot of soup. Then that's what you should do! I don't know what we did to each other to let this get so far, but I'll take my share of the blame. No more, tho. No more words, no more games, no more put downs and no more you are doing this for me's. I am doing this for me. You do for yourself. Hallelujah! I think she got it! I don't understand what's going on and I don't intend to try. Good; don't waste your energy. I feel it's over my head and if you were/are trying I will know, and the effort doesn't have to be in front of my nose. I think he is trying Lynn, remember the phone call to the ex wife? He wants you to see it. But, you're right. It's not comfortable to be "shown." Kinda like you are the Gestapo. Quit laying the US on me. I don't like it and don't feel very ussy at this time. Why am I writing to you? Maybe you will hear this........time is up. Now get on with it or get over it. I will not spend 1 more second of my life engaging in a one sided conversation. You know what I want, and you know what I need. I've told you. What I want now is some homemade pork soup. Good on the firm limits Lynn. Check the anger though. And check your tendency to expect him to be up to no good. Maybe you're wrong... Lynn
B1: Submit S1Dear Trubble, Whoops! Silly me. I was just reminded that I started this argument because I said it takes some nerve to order this stuff and then call me a s**t. "I was dragging up old stuff!" Oh, well. Mixed Grill for you buddy and pork soup for me, ^_^ Comfort foods,
Lynn Neither of you will get purrrfect (like
me) overnight. Give yourself at least Nine Lives...
B1: Submit S1Hello all. I want to thank you Dr. Irene for responding to my post. I know this is not "my thread" but just wanted to say a couple of things. I think what it comes down to in my situation is that my husband and my own vision of what a relationship is, is just different and is compounded by the fact that he has children and I don't. What was difficult for me was that for 3 years he went every other weekend to another town to see the kids and I wasn't invited to be there. When I finally did get invited, I felt that we did what *he* wanted to do and that the kids and I had very little input. Granted, he would come up with choices he thought all of us would enjoy, but it was always he who decided, and that's what I didn't like. Maybe it's a parent vs. stepparent thing, I don't know. As you say they are "his children" and what it comes down to is that I want more out of family life than this. If you were there, he could have asked you for input... I also see what you were saying about my wanting to control his involvement with my family traditions. I think you are right. I just couldn't understand why it felt so wrong to him to participate in a family dinner (which is basically what these traditions consist of for me). But as you say, it's up to me to respect his feelings in those regards, whatever they may be. Yeah... The painful realization is that I can't envision a lifetime of celebrating Christmas, Valentine's Day etc. without my spouse every year. I think I am coming to terms with the fact that our values don't match in this area. The difficult part is letting him go. I feel he loves me and I love him, but we just don't match. Again, thanks for your response Dr. Irene. AK So sorry AK. This sounds like a power struggle...
B1: Submit S1Trubble Dear, If you have Mixed Grill for every meal your teeth will
get yukky and the vet will have to clean your teeth. OUCH! Eat some dry,
darlin. ^_^ Lynn YUK YUK YUK!!! MIXED GRILL
OR BUST!!!! Dear Dr. Irene, Thanks so much, I feel I've been under attack every day and with new tactics. Overwhelms me. It seems he comes home from work every day with a new trick. Last good one was I won't go into therapy now because he asked if we should make an appointment and I said "when?" Two days later, "I wouldn't" make one. Again I said "when?" Dan told me he had Sunday off this week and then Saturday's and Sunday's. Then he tells me he has comp time and can take a couple of hours off any afternoon. "Not fair to gat mad at me if you don't give me all the facts," I said. Am I right? Yep. From what you say here. Dan: What's your take? I think Dan's has a great fear of me leaving him, and the pressure is heavier than I've ever experienced. Meaning he is trying every thing he can conjure up to keep me involved. i.e., He asked me to join an email couple group, Working It Out and then asks me what he should write? I said write your own letter, I'll write mine. (I did, but it didn't post. Sometimes it takes a while.) Then he wants me to add to his letter. We don't have to write in the same letter. I really think he feels if I am independent, I will no longer need him, or some such. The "theatrics are worthy of an Academy Award". He even tries to sit next to me woe begotten. I just ignore. I don't want to spend the rest of my life with poor baby. I understand. You are not wrong. He is trying and doing the best he can. You two need professional help. Please try to understand: both of you make sense (my communication with him is not posted). Both of you are trying. Both of you are making mistakes. I agree with you, he (we) need to get into therapy, but this time he has to do the work. He is great at "Honey, will you help me with this?" This I think is a "Honey I can't." Which is true, and a good answer. I think he gets threatened if he can't be in my space. He feels that means I don't love him. Probably. One thing I am strong on and he has learned: this is really me. I am a genuine Night Owl. I had even been to a Dr. and he convinced me I have insomnia. I don't. I can go to bed and sleep at 2 AM and get up at 10 feeling great, refreshed, relaxed, etc. Eight hours. Not bad. Your sleep habits are sleep late, wake late. He has learned this is not about him. Good! Not a threat because he likes me to get up and pack his lunch and then fix his breakfast. I simply cannot function as a day person (I've tried). I've stood my ground. I'm grumpy and crabby ALWAYS without my sleep. Now if I can get him to see that I have other things like this that do not mean I don't love him, it's ok. He'll get there. Enough. I'm thinking of when he called me "a witch who always got her own way." He respected my space and let me be. Once I let down my "witchyness" he jumped in. (I let him). Back to the broomstick. Set limits, yes. But, try to do it without anger. Separate your boundaries from your anger as best as you can. What got me so angry the other night was when I ASKED him to cancel out a sex movie subscription, that's all I asked. Period. That would have been the end. He canceled, thank you, period. Good! I told him I felt uncomfortable with the book tossing routine. He told me I didn't have to feel that way. I am so sick of being told how I have to feel. Are you sure I can't use the duct tape?? On you or him? Giggle... I think he was trying to tell you that you have a choice on how you view events. Remember the Buddha book you guys got? Spewing again. And AK, I love your input. :) We can have separate lives. Some give and some take. Just so we don't give where we don't want to. I feel that has to go for them, too. The toughie is when I give and don't feel I'm getting in return. And the other way. Never give more than you want. Accept what is given as a gift as opposed to looking for what you wanted to be given. This goes for both of you. Do it and you'll be happier. I Hope you and Hubby were on vacation Doc. SEE, we all survived the
week. Not well of course without Trubble. Yeah,
yeah! Meow! And she's got me in the cat house! Take care and I'll try not to be so angry. Firm, yes. He has to get therapy and quit with the threats @ whether or not I go. And he has to do his own work, as do I. Amen. Sounds good to ... us (grumble). You watch the anger, and he does his own work... Dan: comments? Thanks & Love, Lynn
B1: Submit S1Dear Doc, I had to take notes on posts to answer questions. About the "I don't need you to tell me what to do, I've already got a mother." We got a leak in our roof 3 1/2 years ago. (I don't think I was expected to call his mother and ask her to ask Dan to fix the roof). Priority in my mind (the leak). It took me this long to get the roof fixed and I resorted to down and out eyelash fluttering and manipulation to get the roof fixed. I tried once before to hire someone to take care of something and then I was "trying to make him look like a fool." This is why I take care of MY car and he does what ever with his truck. The check thing. Good honey, I'm glad it's taken care of. Period. Would have been enough. We're now into it's really his fault and how ashamed he is........ Huh? Dan really does a good job at beating himself up. STOP it Dan! Finished, over with, now shut up. Period. Fair fighting. Paper on how to fight fair with a loved one. I felt I was expected to follow the rules. Dan fought to WIN! Therapist. She was great with some other big stuff we had to do. i.e. DD brother, grandchildren, lots of good. I felt I was always on the defensive on anything with US. Really got into Poor Dan and I needed to help him. Nope. Poor Dan and she needs to help him get himself out of that place. You just need to lay off the quick, reactive anger. Dan would lay this on me, too, and I bought into it. I felt like Dan would spend he session telling her what I did or didn't do, and she'd ask me if I could change this. Like forgiving him for ruining Dinner. Nobody ruined the dinner, It was no big deal. I got so tired of this poo poo about this dinner. I never gave a darn. What I gave a darn about was the fact that nobody could drop it because it was such an issue to poor Dan. Only in his own mind. If I wouldn't talk about it, then I was keeping it in. P.S. The next Thanksgiving I cooked a prime rib roast. I still don't know why he can get into a fixation on a subject and then not hear, "NO PROBLEM." After 6 or 7 months of this it becomes a serious problem. Then I get a see I knew it bugged you. Hope that answered a few. Gets confusing, but what I am liking about this site: When Dan sees what I've written, he can comprehend what I'm saying. When I say it directly to him, he wants to correct my statement/s. He gets defensive. In writing, it's less threatening. Why not write to each other for a while? Keeps a lot of yukky irrational thoughts out of the picture. Thank you again, Lynn
B1: Submit S1Dear Dr. Irene, I just read the recommended Buddha site. And to Dear David, "I wish Dan were as far as you." I can tell you every reason why Dan is the way he is, why he does what he does, and know this because he's shared this with me. I think I took it on. Yep. Like an excuse, or maybe even to be helpful. Yep. Dan has to take it on. Yep yep. Dan has to get well. Dan cannot expect me to make it better (I've tried). Yep yep yep. Dan can live without me. Yep. Dan is a good person. Yep. I'm thinking I've got to let him go (not meaning move out :) ) to get him back. Own his own stuff and get beyond it. Not give it to me. I don't want it anyway. I've got enough. Ohhhh, I like that! Is this correct, Dr. Irene? His painful stuff from his past has to be taken on and released from his view as a child (where he learned this) and dealt with as an adult (where he needs to be now). Then he forgives his mother because she knew no better and did the best she could? She did have a horrid life. (Dan's father was a bigamist with a 2nd family Ouchhhh! ). Even I forgive her lots, because. It's just the Dan stuff still going on that I feel unforgivable about. It's up to him to do this, right? Yes. Not for him to give to me (which I take) and then he's not mad at mom. I am for him. Meeowouchhhhh. Yes. His painful past can bring me to tears. He needs to grieve this, not me. Yes! And stop carrying it around. And be able to set limits with mom, and be mad at her for marrying no-goodnick dad, and be mad with her for all her limitations, even though she did her best - and still love her, cuz he does... Then he can do all of this with you too. Meanwhile, I have to kick out of poor Dan and let him do his own poor Danning while I take care of me. Take care of you. Let Dan take care of Dan. And, stop with all the kick out talk. I know from elsewhere that's not what you really want, so drop it, OK? It just makes him feel insecure and totally yukky. I'm ok now just as long as he doesn't come home with another script tonight. These throw me. Don't let them. Not that he's "right." He's not. You don't deserve scripts and games. But, don't give him your power either! You don't have to accept them no matter what! Thanks for listening to me think and thanks to David. Lynn
B1: Submit S1P.S. Dan, where are you? I thought you were going to jump in. Lynn
B1: Submit S1^_^ Lynn here, I've written 3 times to working it out and can't seem to get through. I'm having the giggles because when I asked Dan if he was going to jump in here he went to W_I_O. Now I can't seem to catch up with him. Dan, If you're out there, I can't (literally) get out of the cat box. :) Lynn While you and Trubble are playing in there together, I'll check out the WIO thing. But, probably not till tomorrow night.
B1: Submit S1I'm back. :) Good to have you back! It's been a month since I knew things were over, and a week since my ex completely accepted that and decided not to try to work things out. What a long, strange trip this is. Something I'm noticing (that I might expand upon more later, and that I think would make an interesting interactive): is the reams of codependent pop culture that I'm surrounded by. It disturbs me when I go scanning through radio stations in my car and get to hear Macy Gray's "I Try", LeeAnn Rimes' "How Do I Live Without You?", Live's "I Alone" ... you get the idea. Must make self nice empowering tape to play in the car for when I don't feel like dealing with Codependent Radio America. :) And that's exactly what our culture is about! Codependent America. And Australia. Add Europe too. And Eastern Europe. I'm too limited to know more about other continents. That's what Robert Burney talks about in his book, Codependence: Dance of the Wounded Souls. Sad but true. Something much cooler I'm noticing is how amazingly supportive, without exception, my friends have been through the past month. I could have done without a few of the "I never liked him anyways from certain quarters Giggle! , but I made it clear that I was feeling kind of nasty and vulnerable and trying to work through stuff and that trashing my ex (mad as he made me) doesn't help me. Good girl! Taking the High Road! He's already found someone else, and they seem to *ahem* share a common interest. Shades of Codependence! Too, too fast methinks. I wouldn't be as hurt about the someone else if it weren't for the common interest. I still feel like I got dumped for Mary Jane, and that's just annoying considering that we got together at a party where we were the only two who weren't stoned or out-of-our-minds drunk, and we got tired of baby-sitting the rest of the fools and decided to spend time together. *sigh* Oh well. Guess some things changed a bit. And it's done and past mending now. And don't forget, everything is nice and hopeful early on... I have another recently-single friend, and we're making plans to get together and eat lots of ice cream and watch The First Wives Club. :) Friends are neat. Yep! I just wish more of mine lived here. But hey, I have a car, and if I want to go visiting people, I will only be paying for MYSELF, not footing the bill for the ex and running interference between him and the friends who didn't like him. That's a very cheerful thought. :) Lessons learned: 1. I will never date another cigarette smoker. I
will think twice about dating someone who is allergic to cats, because
being owned by cats is an important part of my lifestyle. *grin* *hugs to all that want them, warm thoughts to those who'd rather not be hugged* -AngryGirl I'll take all the hugs I
can get. Purrrrrrr....
B1: Submit S1Dear Angry Girl, Welcome home. Lynn here. Love The 1st Wife's Club. Rent American
Dreamer too for a cute pick me up. I love the rules. I'm laughing,
because the LAST thing I think about now is another man. My
sister-in-law and I have jokingly come up with what we call our
application form before we would consider another. I think (for me) it's
easier to stay here and retrain this one. I'm
available ladies... To AK, We had some SERIOUS stuff with Dan's grandchildren a few years back and he thought I "could handle it." I didn't. We did and if it were my grandkids, I would have insisted on "we", too. It was very uncomfortable for him (me, too), but together we showed the girls a united front and I think that helped them. I hope so. We did our best. Key word WE. (Dr. Irene, this was handled GREAT by our old therapist and I will thank her always. She excelled here.) United front is a MUST for kids! Back to Angry Girl. Read what Dr. Irene tells me. I'm angry, too.
Love your tape. My favs were I Will Survive, Leave Me Alone, Before the
Next Teardrop Falls, and go figure......To this day I break out bawlin'
if I hear Elvis' Here Comes Santa Claus. See Tubble, I'm a real nut. Nuts
are the best! Does anyone else read "The Cat Who's......?" Angry Girl, you can hug me anytime. I love hugs. Take care, Lynn
B1: Submit S1Lynn, Well here I am jumping in, I read your posts and can truly say that what I read is listened to more so than what I hear. I am going to see a therapist as I told you when I came home, the appointment is for Friday morning, I am going. :) I don't understand why we enmeshed our boundaries, of course I didn't know about them until we went to the therapist, as bad as we have, but that will take some understanding of ourselves and each other. I know that I seem lost without you and perhaps this is true in that I'm imposing what should have been on the now. This is not another gimmick, just how I feel and have not realized it. Good stuff! You can be a =itch, witch or an entity that we haven't thought of yet. You asked me if the thought of your having an affair entered my mind over this, and truthfully (I told you) it never had. The not hearing is something which I don't understand other than as we have said before, I shut out my mother when she got under my skin. As you know I don't express my anger at you very often, but I feel that you can sense it at times. I know where this comes from and we have discussed it also. I don't know if I told you, (I think so) but I did appreciate you telling my daughter off, and she has only spoken to me when I call her as you know. I think that I heard you then, so I feel that there are some things which affect you that I do understand. I can't explain it; perhaps it is a feeling of abandonment but I don't want our relationship to end. Neither does she Dan. I know that to ensure that it doesn't is to learn about myself and to get well, emotionally. :) Whatever comes of the future comes, but the past will have to become the past, I have to do this. I don't understand why the working it out website isn't taking your posts. I chose that one when you showed it to me, a gut reaction is the only reason I can give. Dr Irene and Trubble thanks for your advice and insight. God willing and no more fires I will get help on a proper start on changing me. Also the old therapist suggested an anti-depressant, I have a depressed personality she said, so I will take it if the new therapist also suggests it. David at Buddha: Good for you, I hope that I can get where you're at. Dan You can Dan. Persistant effort, antidepressants when indicated, and a lady you love more than you love yourself (to date) will get you there...
B1: Submit S1Dear Trubble and all, Lynn here. Is this my imagination or not. There is so much unfinished business here. Is that one of the symptoms of verbal abuse? We use to have a good cat fight and the next day I was hard pressed to remember what it was about (not that I cared to). Lynn A good CAT fite...
B1: Submit S1Hi everyone. Angrygirl - I loved your post. I can relate to so much of what you are saying. And I agree about co-dependent radio. That's why I listen to "talk" radio instead. I think the "someone else" he's found is probably a blessing. It make things very clear for you. :) I also agree that some of the "little things" are
important. For example I'm dog obsessed and that doesn't work for
everyone. (Trubble - not to offend, I think cats are nice too) :(
You're just saying that... And thanks AngryGirl, I'll take the hug too. Lynn, I agree about having a united front for the kids regardless of what's going on. It sounds like you and Dan have been pretty solid in the stepfamily issues and that is something to be commended for! It's a heck of a lot more complicated than it looks from the outside. There is a stepfamily site with a lot of good information if you have the patience to go through it. It's at: The guy who put it together did his Masters-degree thesis on stepfamilies and is a stepfather himself. The site is rather convoluted and the language a little hard to process, but the information is very good. There is a section I cut from the site and unfortunately I can't find the link anymore so I'll just post it (sorry for the length): "Many people understandably feel that their children have suffered enough as a result of their divorce. Some parents even feel guilty. So they may try to make it up to their kids by devoting themselves completely and totally to their kids' welfare and putting everything else second. While this may sound desirable and noble, it has the potential to backfire in disaster. The couple relationship must take precedence. A less than rock-solid relationship between husband and wife threatens the security of the stepfamily. As a result, the children may face yet another break-up. The old maxim -- the best gift you can give your children is to love your spouse -- couldn't be more appropriate here. The couple provides the foundation for the stepfamily. Without husband and wife bonding and working together, there is no family at all. So the couple's focus must be on nourishing their relationship, not only for themselves but also for the sake of their kids. Then the children fit in more naturally, easily, and happily within the emotional safety of a secure marriage. This is probably the most important lesson for a stepfamily couple to learn." I agree with this statement. Whatever comes from the top of the hierarchy (i.e. the parents/stepparents) ends up filtering down to the kids. Also, Dr. Irene, there's a segment under http://drirene.com/redflag.htm that I want to ask you about. One of the red flags for abusive behaviour says: "Disregards laws or social customs that interfere with their own goals or pleasure. Sees no point in observing holidays or giving gifts." Do you disagree with this? I realize there is a difference between this and doing something that is against your religion or moral principles, but what I keep mulling over is *why* these moral principles have been chosen. Are they a true connection with God, or are they actually just a convenient way to not have to adapt or be flexible to another's needs. I believe that at times the voice of the ego can be mistaken for the voice of God. Just my 2 cents. It depends on the individual. Generally, the principles chosen by the angry person are from the ego, i.e., their narcissism, sociopathy, rebellion, etc. And, yes, the voice of the ego is too often mistaken for the voice of God. That's what happens when you're not connected with inside and lie to yourself, believe your own lies. I never said the High Road was an easy trek. But, it really is easier than the pain and hardship the typical angry person unknowingly puts him or her self through each day... I understand that either way, you have to accept the person and their beliefs as they are. It's just that when they seem unhealthy to me, I get the urge to want to try to make an impact. This is where I probably have to learn to draw my own lines. YES! The only person in the world you have any power over...is yourself. Spend your energy there. I can't be inside someone else's brain or body and ultimately I can't judge which path is best for them. Right. If their path offends you, what are you doing in their company? I waiver between acceptance, and pushing for change just to see what might happen. 12-Step Wisdom: Accept the things you cannot change, change the things you can, and have the wisdom to know the difference. Certainly misquoted, but I think you get the drift... As Angrygirl suggested, if I am expending excessive psychic energy on any person/thing, I need to ask myself WHY. :) And Dan, contrary to what it may appear, you will be supported on this site if and when you do decide to appear. Everyone has their story and I'm certain that you have yours. take care everybody. AK Thank you AK.
B1: Submit S1Dan: My last post to you won't make sense, because you already did post. Anyways, nice to see you here. Yeah! AK
B1: Submit S1AK We must have been posting at the same time. Thanks for the "one for the Gipper" about kids and stepfamilies. Lynn's' sons and daughter are like my children, not stepchildren. They are adults and not youngsters, but that makes no difference to me (or to them I think), I think that makes a difference with kids no matter the age. What do you say Trubble? I say, "Meow!" Once again, thanks Dan PS Dan's daughter is a confused young girl with a lot of problems. This does not mean we are not here for her if she needs it. We just don't feel it means we have to give her $$ and do whatever she wants. She tends to play, "If you don't do this for me I won't let you see the kids again". Emotional blackmail... We're into "OK fine." She is getting help and I do think she'll outgrow this. She really is a nice girl. Just overwhelmed with life (who isn't?) The perfect one's in our family are the 7 cats. ^_^ Hey, Trubble. Love and Hugs to all, Lynn See Dr. Irene.... We're not talking, we're writing. Duct tape for two :)
B1: Submit S1*hums Billy Joel's "My Life"* Glad my postings were of some use. :) Well, this has been an interesting night. Apparently my ex now feels like I was "trying" to get rid of him, so the fact that he's dating a mutual friend's younger sister is now MY fault. Don't go here... Drop it; disengage... Just like the substance abuse is MY fault because I'm an occasional social drinker and used to be a heavier one. *mild annoyance* Went something like this: One of my friends and I have a long history (since we've known each other) of the same guys getting interested in us. We find this vastly amusing. My ex was one of these guys. Used to say that if my friend weren't older and if he weren't with me he might have tried for her. Apparently because I told this friend that my ex found her attractive, and because she was on the same vacation and knew exactly what the fight we were having was about (not to mention, the friend I almost slept with is another guy who's been interested in both of us), and because I encouraged my ex to talk to this friend's little sister like he would to any other human being he found interesting ... that meant I was trying to palm him off onto someone else so I wouldn't feel guilty about leaving. HUH?! Someone pour the boy a nice bowl of Reality Chex! I felt guilt about the circumstances, but leaving was self-preservation at this point. OK, maybe subconsciously, encouraging him to talk to the woman he's now dating made it easier for me to get out, just as realizing in a no-question-possible way that it's possible for me to be physically attracted to someone else made it easier for me to get out. Still, this annoys me, and I wish my replacement's sister hadn't gotten in the middle of this. "She said that her sister said" gives me a headache. Better her than me, in any event. I tried to fix what I had. It wasn't fixable. It just got worse. My friends did everything short of deprogramming me or putting me in a mental institution to make me realize this. My mother still doesn't know the whole story, and probably won't (given that she still thinks *I* am a drug addict, which is a whole other can of worms), but she knows it's over. My father, I might actually tell the whole story to, as long as I know he won't tell my mother. A co-worker had to leave early today because her niece's ex-boyfriend broke a restraining order and broke into her house. That could have been me five years down the line, if I had stayed. The physical abuse line was never completely crossed with us, but it came uncomfortably close twice (once we were having a political argument that turned ugly while in his car, and he started driving recklessly; once he actually raised a hand to me but drew back when I screamed and ducked). I know he has a violent temper, and he felt this weird need to "defend" me (he hit his sister for making an insulting comment about my weight, and was PROUD of this! I was furious, needless to say). This could have been really bad. The part I'm still dreading is the gossip. I don't want sympathy for what's likely to be the perception (he left me for this other girl), since that was the least of it. I don't want him trashed by others in the group the three of us are involved in. I don't want people to think that I was sleeping with the friend I almost slept with, and that was the source of the breakup, either. (I don't want the friend dragged into this since he's 300 miles away but still has a lot of connections up here, and I don't want people thinking that of me.) I know, there's not a damn thing I can do about people chattering. I'm not even sure I want to go into what really happened with most people. There've been a lot of breakups in this group lately, and a lot of (very stupid and hurtful) gossip has gone around. I'm going to try to be as dignified about this as I can, and laugh it off a bit. (Something like "well, we realized that if we can't live together happily for two weeks on vacation, getting married was probably a bad idea" or some such.) But I don't want any of the four of us dragged through the mud -- it accomplishes NOTHING, and I'd like to be able to deal with my ex on a friendly basis, and have the others in the situation all deal with each other reasonably well. I know, it seems a trivial thing to worry about, but this group is my main social life and was once his. I want to be able to lean on my friends for some support here, but not to end up with people being hurtful and nasty. My ex and I have dealt enough hurt to each other especially these last six months or so. We don't need any more of it. *sigh* OK time for bed. I'm falling asleep at the keyboard practically. Sweet dreams... -AngryGirl
B1: Submit S1Dear Kitty Boxers, Lynn here. And Dear Angry, I love "My Life". What is so funny :) I had a pile of these records....45's .......See, I guess I'm the senior of the cat box. A neighbor just had an old juke box in the back of his truck and I asked him if he'd like them. He was elated. My song lately has been "Whiskey Under the Bridge." About the gossip. I use to be a bartender and the vicarious life for some of my customers. Gossip was a way of life, but with my bizarre sense of humor I'd give people something to talk about. One of my favs :) when my late husband died someone asked a friend of mine how much $$ I'd been left. He answered "one point two mil," looking them in the eye and with a straight face. Well, some people believed this and the gossip was hilarious. Dan and I can still have fun with this. It is fun for me to get into my own gossip and leave the other poor folk alone. I doesn't see as serious when it's directed at you personally if there are gross exaggerations. 1.2 mil, indeed and I can't even spell Porsche correctly! Tough to tell you not to take it to heart, gossip hurts. I just suggest you make it interesting for the tellers. You sound like you know who your true friends are. Very nice going! Dan and I didn't talk last night we wrote to each other. ^_^ <-cat ears It's working. Sure. You are not as reactive, bouncing off the other. You have time to think - what a concept! I am straight forward blunt. Strictly black and white. Dan is gray and seems to hedge his his bets with any question. We both have to work on this. Communication gets confusing. If I say "YES" he wants to know if I'm sure? If I want a yes or no, I get a 2 paragraph answer of maybe. Dr. Irene, I hope you are right. Dan has a way of getting his meals fixed, clothes done and bed made and thinking we've had enough therapy. I noticed "He's made an appointment" and he's going Friday. Hello Dan, I'm in this, too. I'm going with you. Please wake me up tho.........:) David sure got to us at Buddha. Even Dan needed to tell him to let her go. There is really no other choice, sane or legal. There is life beyond and sometimes even better. Dan can get into this. He "can't live" without me. Sure he could. We've both had reincarnations though, and know life goes on. Sometimes better. Dear AK, It seems a shame yours can't give a bit about family dinners. We have found that lots of different is interesting. We went to a Catholic Midnight Mass with my daughter's family, Friends took us to Baptist Churches and then we helped with a Christmas program for the grandkids in a Christian Church Pageant and watched the oldest grandson in a church play. We were both raised STRICT Catholic with the impression if we even had non Catholic friends we were destined for flames. As adults, different got to be fun and interesting. Didn't ever become threatening. Well guys, have a good day and I will too. Hugs a bunch, Lynn
B1: Submit S1Hi, all! It's good to see so much dialogue! At the same time, my frustration with my own situation is growing. It seems that Dan is at least willing to try; he sincerely wants to understand what's going on and help fix it, despite the ups and downs. And Lynn, too is working on her stuff. I feel abandoned. My husband says he cares, but has yet to do anything significant that shows he understands how rotten things have always been, and how much change is needed. I am beginning to show the effects of ten years of confusion, pain, resentment, and frustration, all experienced as I tried to cope, tried to "be a better wife," tried to reconcile what I knew to be right with the reality of how I was living. I have recently told him that something must be decided, as I doubt I can live in this state much longer. I'm scared that I'll have a major depression. The migraines are more frequent, I get dizzy for no reason. He says I make my own trouble. I know that he doesn't want to leave; he wants me to (he's afraid he'll have to give up "his" house). Since I can't leave now for financial reasons, I think he knows he's "got" me. At least I'm afraid that that's how he sees it. And STILL he is insulted and angry when I tell him I don't feel loved. He throws everything back at me: if I don't feel loved, HE doesn't. Hubby has a real bad time accepting negative feedback. Try another tact. Instead of complaining, tell him what you want: "Right now I need you to (whatever, concrete and specific like) take my hand, hold it, and tell me you do love me." If I feel my needs aren't respected, he feels the same. It always boils down to this from him: Becky, if you were the kind of wife I wanted, I'd respect you. But since you aren't, you don't deserve my respect. He has also told me that he doesn't consider us equals in the marriage; that when I earn and pay as much as he does, we'll be equals. Oh, yuk, yuk, yuk! Part of the problem is that you are now too burnt and angry to do what may be in your and your marriage's best interest. I'm sorry! Ignore this, everyone, if this is too much of a downer! I feel so bad today; I need to broadcast my misery to the world! I am trying to cope, and do take responsibility for taking care of myself. I just resent being in this position; having to think about the ramifications of a separation and/or divorce. Well, why not give it a shot if you love him? I think I'll go watch Bridges of Madison County. I know it's a little depressing, but I'm a real romantic, so I love it! Oh--country songs. Thank God for Believers is a classic codependent anthem. The guy decides to change and thanks God for his woman, who stayed up all night praying for years. (I'm not putting that down, mind you! I've been monopolizing God's time lately with MY prayers)! A good upbeat, I'm taking my power song is Kiss This. I'll leave that one to your imagination! Becky Feel better...
B1: Submit S1Dear Group, This is Lynn. I just read C & K's success story and made me think of some things (that have been dealt with). Pertaining to sex. I've been bored twice in my life, always can find something to do, except this once. I told Dan I would like it if we had sex more often, Dan can be very passive and if he didn't think I would be receptive, he just wouldn't (past tense). Well, the way he interpreted sex more often was "better sex" (this comes from a misrepresentation from sex sites & XXX I think). This was a 2 hour performance of dirty words, cartwheels and if we had a trapeze, I think he would have tried it. BORING...... After this I had a loooooong talk with him about what I meant. Even at my "old" age I could probably go to any bar at closing time and get this type of sex. That is not good sex, not better sex, nor fun sex. Simply animal stuff that our male dog could do (and possibly the need of a warm body). Once we got over the definition of sex more often, we worked on.....so I have my hair in curlers. Didn't mean I might not consider. Just because I was reading a book didn't mean the answer was NO. And quit reading my mind. Maybe I'm just as interested and am thinking you are tired. This took a lot of work and hopefully this is behind us. Excellent! No does not mean never. It seems we can get such screwy (pun intended) thoughts about sex that we lose the intimacy and closeness. There seems to be so much pressure these days on performance, which to me is silly. Blame it on our culture, which to me is silly. I also used to love pretty undies & lacy nighties. With the comparison (even if it was in my mind, it was there) of XXX mags or whatever, I've become cotton from ankle to neck. There is not enough plastic surgery to ever pull me together to make me look like that, nor would I try. But I also don't think I'm so bad that the dog is going to bury me in the backyard. (At least she knows no cat would ever bury her!) Is this the degrading thing sex comparisons get us to ???? Like the "reassuring ?" message from Dan about the girl young enough to be my daughter. This doesn't reassure. Actually made me feel downright ugly. I didn't look like that 25 years ago! It's me I want him to like and admire. Stop twisting his words. Yes, what he said was kind of funny, but do you doubt for a second that you are the one he wants? Advice to angry victims trying to fix their relationship: Remember when you gave your partner the benefit of the doubt, especially when they were trying? Try it again; it's free! Moral of this, so much to work out, but when sex gets to be required or demanded or performed on top of the rest of the stuff we're working on, we can really get baffled. Pop culture twists the intimacy of making love into impersonal, sex with no feeling. I'm trying not to moralize here either. I was single for about 10 years and know the comforts of feeling we are loved, even if for a night or two. It seems to ease some pain and lonesomeness, but long term and forever it isn't. Real intimacy is about just two. With respect and integrity for both. Oh yes... Reading these posts is why I asked if he thought of me having an affair. I didn't want to add that to his thinking, because I know that's not for me at this age. I had to reassure him that in the younger girls I can see the reasoning and comforts that they feel they can find, but I'd rather read a book than go through that with another man. Dan, too. It never would occur to me that he's out chasing. Good for both of you. That's one potential game you choose not to play. No that we have that settled, we have lots to work on just so I feel
loving again. I don't think for us women that sex makes it "all
better" and men seem to
B1: Submit S1Dear Becky, This is Lynn. We must have been typing together. I hear you. Loud and clear. I can get like that, too. I want to shout when I feel anyone is listening to me. I also like to get good and depressed when I get depressed. Really wallow in it or about 2 or 3 days. Then I can get so sick of me in the pity party that I end up UP! Becky, I do worry about you. The depression maybe? I get angry, not
depressed. Not that it's better, but I'd almost like to hear you
shouting. Maybe I can get over some of my anger and lend it to you. I
want to get angry at him for what he's saying to you. Us
too Becky, though the doc is a bit nutty these days. First, she tells
you guys you shouldn't be angry. Now, she agrees with Lynn that she'd
rather see you angry than depressed. Go figure! All I can send you is my love and prayers, but you are special to me.
Watch your movie and I never heard of the Kiss (huh?) Someone come up
with a happy theme song for us here. No, Trubble, it can't be Friends in
Low Places. Oh, yea, why can't it ??? Might be appropriate after all ^_^
Giggle On our blended families..... We just got an email from my late husband's daughter today. It figures, tho.... Love to all, Trubble, did the Doc ever get you a can of Pounce? Yum, Lynn NO!
B1: Submit |
(I
may have 9 lives, but a short memory; remind me why you are emailing.
Meow.)
