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Comments for Catbox 18

Comments for Catbox 18

Material posted here is intended for educational purposes only, and must not be considered a substitute for informed advice from your own health care provider.

Courtesy of Dr. Irene Matiatos   Copyrightę 2000. The material on this website may be distributed freely for non-commercial or educational purposes provided that author credit is given. For commercial distribution, please contact the author at Doc@drirene.com

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B1: Submit
Date: Tuesday, January 02, 2001

S1

Dear Dr. Irene, Trubble and everybody,

Lynn here with some really heavy stuff (for me). Long, long couple of days and an interesting one about the dog. It might be safe to say Dan was in a rage yesterday. Silent and verbally ALL the Same as before. He showered and I turned off my light and turned my back and our dog growled viciously at him for trying to get into the bed. (He spent the night before in the TV room). Let's rethink this protective dog thing!

Started out by me (of course) I have to engage, don't I? I think I said I was doing well and I (singular) was. I asked Dan if they ever discussed us at therapy and he said, "yes. in fact I told her how much better we were doing." I asked why he thought that and he said things were so much better than they were. Bandy words with me! I think they are a lot worse than they were, too, and told him so. What were are we discussing here? Well he proceeds to tell me, we've been talking. What we talked about mostly was a drooling cat and whether or not we should take him to the vet and then when. Serious stuff. Then he said we talked about a week and a half ago. Etc. etc and etc.

First of all if he wants to know if we are doing better he is to ask me. Just because I'm not witchy does not mean things are better or resolved. Why can't things be better for him, even if you don't agree? Why do you two have to agree?

Then I had/have a big one I brought up. Old fight that was never resolved. Silly stupid thing (Dr. Irene, I picked this one, you'll see why). Months ago he lost a set of car keys and I had to go up somewhere and pick him up. After that every time I was by there I'd ask if they found his keys? NO. One day I needed a couple of bucks so I went into Dan's "jewelry case" and there were the lost keys. I confronted him. Were you nice or yukky? Big mistake on my part. I was attacked. Not for finding them, but told I didn't make a fool of myself asking for them as he found them after I asked (he knows when I asked?) and if he were really hiding them would they be "right there?" On and on crazy stuff. Has been a boil on my innards for a long time.

Last night he wanted to fight it out again. Shouted at me he said he was sorry (sorry he was caught??) Made up my mind this one I had to know and had to resolve, because this one is right in my gut of integrity. To me this is sneaky, deceptive, lying, childish, immature and then pretty damned dumb to blame me and attack me. If that is the apology (that he's sorry I caught him) then I want nothing more to do with him ever, because our values are so different we'll never agree. You guys need to agree that it's OK to disagree! If this is the way it is I think he must have no conscience at all. Angry, no, all I needed was an I'm sorry I tried to cover up and I don't blame you for being angry or some such. But to attack me verbally because he gets caught?? Not enough info...

I made a vow and a resolution. I will not be living like this next New Years Day. That is a promise. I'm so tired.

I wish those of us with couples like this could see and hear themselves through our ears and eyes. I can honestly say I can look and him and think, "How could anyone act so stupid?" As for respect, he's got to earn it and I really don't blame the dog for growling at him, Me thinks the dog is a lot smarter than I am. And Jay, next time lets get our men like our laundry.. pre shrunk. hehehe And me is beginning to thinks you is very, very angry and not paying much attention to how you come across. And that's independent of Dan, though  he probably reacts to you. 

Astrid, I hear ya. Fun to do other stuff, huh? Becky, I asked Dan about the door and he didn't know what I was talking about. Has needed trim since we've moved in. AJ, are you out there somewhere? The rest of you, howdy. I have been busy and not dwelling on venting, maybe not even needing to till now. I just find it hard to believe he thought things were better. From where I'm sitting they have never been worse for "us."

I haven't edited and I'm sure there are boo boo's. I broke my little finger the other day and Dan splinted it to my ring finger and it's hard to hold the keyboard, let alone type. I broke it moving a pan from the stove to the sink (physical violence not part of our life). I hear the others though, this is like being beat up from the inside out and I really feel if I stay in this much longer I will have lost my soul and spirit.

Love you all and hugs, hugs and hugs and Loco/Trubble hugs for the cat box. Wouldn't it be wonderful if we could all be like them? Purrr and meow. Yeah!

Lynn

B1: Submit
Date: Tuesday, January 02, 2001

S1

HAPPY NEW YEAR!

I found a piece of my old emotional garbage last night and I'm not sure where it came from. I was having a normal conversation with my new bf and it felt like he was totally not understanding what I was saying and I snapped at him. We both felt really bad, and it surprised us both!! I know it pushed some buttons for me, but I really thought I had worked through most of that garbage. I guess I have a lot more work to do, but I'm not even sure where it came from - overreaction for the perceived misunderstanding.

Looks I have some serious work to do,

Suzanne

B1: Submit
Date: Tuesday, January 02, 2001

S1

Jay here in confusion. Healthy Human Katkid and Husband are on their way home and I just don't want them to come. It has been so peaceful and I don't mind the Healthy Human KatKid on his own but I also don't feel ready to give up peace. Also have my sister and her family arriving today and not tomorrow.

I like my sister but she has always reversed the roles so she is like the older sister and really I am.

I was feeling together and o.k and suddenly I am not sure if I can cope at all.

Housework and meals are o.k no it is the control issue that is getting to me. I just feel overpowered; already and nobody is here.

Daughter having decided to be in a rude phase again was they taken off for the night by my sister who is unfortunately under the impression she can wave a magic wand and everyone will be o.k. But it will have to be her magic and her way............Well I suppose she is one of the few who really did get to sort out a failed marriage! Husband went off with another woman and got him back on the straight and narrow,,,

It isn't like anyone has said or done anything. Just more feeling aware of how disempowered I feel. More of the same on a telephone call this morning: put down before I could finish again. Then I got the same from Human KatKid....just copying his father's rudeness as it is what he sees....Usually Human KatKid is o.k and thoughtful....

I just can't seem to protect myself from the thoughts or the fear. It is silly as nobody has done anything really....

And talking of laundry I am in dread as I have washed "The COAT" This is an old one of mine Jake has now worn for 13 years without washing. In it's filthy state (and it is a woman's coat it has been worn to school concerts and open days, out to dinner.....Equals that of any tramp!!! I know there will be a reaction over this...I tried to bin it once in despair and he just got it out and wears it more than ever.

I suppose I should have left it but to embarrass the kids with it just seems so insensitive.

Ah well another chapter for "Love and the Laundry". I agree Lynn let's get them pre shrunk or go to a nudist colony! (I really am writing it). jay

B1: Submit
Date: Tuesday, January 02, 2001

S1

I'm sitting here still trying to figure out why I snapped at my bf. Why do I take it personally when someone disagrees with me or doesn't understand what I'm saying? Am I still that insecure?! When I'm upset with him, I can calmly communicate with him and let him know how I feel and what I need. That's why I know this is totally my issue.

Has anyone else experienced this in their recovery - I feel lost.

Suzanne

B1: Submit
Date: Tuesday, January 02, 2001

S1

Hi everyone...My name is Jo, and I am new to this site. I would like some input from someone about my situation, and any suggestions would be appreciated. I am a 45 year old woman, I come from a historically abusive family, I am the youngest, the only girl, and I have two older brothers, ages 53 and 56. My dad died 5 years ago and my mother died last summer, leaving the middle brother as executer of the will. The assets include the house I have lived in most of my life, along with several other properties, and cash assets. While I *finally* got my brothers to agree to some counseling, everything is in the beginning phases, and neither one of them *wants* to view themselves as abusive (of course), but they both *reek*. My security has been on the line my whole life, but NOW it gets down to the reality of my brothers having the power to liquidate all of my parents assets, including the house that was always promised to me. The will, however, splits everything three ways. This situation has been threatening my security, my two young sons (ages 7 and 10), and generally brings back all the feelings of not being *worthy* of consideration by anyone. While I believe I have moved past most of my personal issues due to the abusive partners I have had, these brothers of mine have always called me "crazy", "hyper-sensitive", and have generally blamed me for being the family "trouble-maker". So did my parents; so my brothers feel very justified with their perceptions. How do deal with this situation, outside of hiring my own lawyer, which would probably eat up any significance inheritance for any of us? ANY suggestions????? Thanks! Jo

B1: Submit
Date: Tuesday, January 02, 2001

S1

Hi again, if anyone would like to write to me, my email address is jo@blazing-trails.com Thanks again! *smiles* Jo

B1: Submit
Date: Tuesday, January 02, 2001

S1

Asha here

Hi Lynn, Astrid, Becky and others.

Lynn - I understand how you feel. If you can never get to the core of an issue because your partner is interpreting the things you say as an attack, then how can things get solved? Very frustrating.

Suzanne - I think what you are talking about, "snapping" or feeling misunderstood has to do with a sense of powerlessness you probably feel on some level. I think, in my case, that would come from a past where I didn't know how to protect myself (especially from someone I loved), and knew very little about boundaries. As I learn to protect myself from hurt and to walk away or detach from hurtful situations, I feel less like "snapping" or manipulating things, and I know that I am in charge of my life. Look at the feeling that led you to "snap" - what was it about? Don't disregard the feeling that led to your reaction. Examine it, and try to discover where it came from. This is what I try to do. When I used to just try to "get over it", the feeling would come back again and again. As Dr. I says, our feelings are a gift from God; they alert you to look at something. But how we respond to them is our choice.

take care

Asha

B1: Submit
Date: Tuesday, January 02, 2001

S1

Oh - and Jay - I meant to say hi to you too, and hang in there. Can you create the sense of peace you had while Jake was away, in the room you were setting up for yourself - sort of a haven for yourself?

sorry if I missed anybody else.

Asha

B1: Submit
Date: Tuesday, January 02, 2001

S1

Hi all,

To "Am I at fault",

I misunderstood your post- I thought, for some reason, that there was a child involved. Sometimes my mouth figuratively speaking) gets away from me! Physical violence is NEVER ok! I know it is hard to get away, but the violence is only likely to get worse. Your well being, both mental and physical, is the most important thing right now.

Take care of yourself (and welcome to the kittybox!)

Love,

Anne

B1: Submit
Date: Tuesday, January 02, 2001

S1

Stronger than I thought I could be

Well folks my story starts out in Christmas of 1999. I was attending college and close to finishing my degree. I had been dating online for quite sometime and found a mix of different men. I had traveled from New York city to Los Angeles, enjoying meeting wealthy successful men but found myself incredibly bored with dating already, okay spoiled rotten to the core. I had never appreciated all these wonderful men I had met before, now I know to appreciate a good successful man. I stopped dating and decided to focus on school when I met Robert. I met him through this jerk I used to date named Gerard. I eventually forgave Gerard for being a jerk and we assumed a friendship. One night he brought Robert over. Robert had seen my photo online and Gerard seen him looking at my profile. Gerard told Robert he had dated me before and that I was a great gal but dumped him. I had heard from a mutual friend of Gerard's and mine that he was married when I was dating him, although we had never been serious I was infuriated to find this out. I just couldn't believe it! So Gerard contacted me through e-mail and asked if he could come over. I didn't know he was bringing Robert over to introduce us. So they came over and I asked Robert point blank if Gerard was married and he said no. They left, Gerard asked me to dinner and Robert asked me for my phone number and I said we could be friends to Gerard and gave Robert a laugh. I had no idea I would ever see this stranger named Robert again. He came to my house one November day, left a note on my door saying he was Gerard step brother and he was living in Albuquerque now. He said he would come back later, my God I wish he never had. So I completely forgot about him until a few days later when he was back at my door again, I opened the door to see him standing there in my door way with a half cracked smile, I let him in and my life has never been the same. He admitted to me that Gerard was indeed married and I became very angry. I told him not to call me anymore and to leave me alone, but he showed up at my door again, when my mother answered he gave her some roses. He called me at work and how he got the name and number I will never know but he said he had to lie because he was living with Gerard but moved out after they had a fight, now he was living a few streets down from me at his Uncle Johnnies. Can you believe, out of all the places in this city to live, he moves a few blocks down from me. He had told me that he had walked for miles looking for my place, God I wish he had never found my apartments, why didn't he just give up or get ran over by a car? Why did he have to be so persistent? So of course he latched onto me and never let me go after I let him in my door. He was at my house almost every night and I wished he would go home. I wasn't attracted to him at all. He told me he was Gerard's former step brother from a previous marriage. He would constantly ask me to kiss him and make sexual advances. I would just laugh at him and tell him we would be better off friends, that he didn't want to date me, I was too difficult and expected too much but he persisted. It was the holidays, I had a great job at a law office, I just finished a semester of school and everything was great. I was so happy to be so in control of my life, so happy things were working out, I was making it and the world was mine to take. Then one night I caved into his advances toward me, he kissed me and I couldn't believe I kissed him back. He didn't know how to kiss at all, I could tell no one had ever loved this guy. Then it all just happened, I can't even remember the night when we first had sex, I wasn't drunk but I just couldn't remember. As our sexual relationship progressed, I could tell no one had ever made love to him either and he had never made love to anyone also. He told me of a few sexual affairs he had, all were quickies for the women he was with and none of them gave a damn about him. He was just their sex toy. He was very sexually immature, it was as if he was a virgin. About three weeks later, he confessed he had never climaxed with a woman, I said what you're 24! He said I had been the only woman he had ever been able to climax with and I knew he was telling the truth after his excitement and joy overtook him, he was so amazed. I couldn't understand it. So I thought he was special, I cared about him and even loved him for being so naive, being so young and inexperienced. I felt sorry for him. No one had ever loved him. Everyday he became a better lover, my way. I had taught him everything he knew, he was being crafted into this wonderful lover and human being, he was brand new and he was all mine. He fell in love with him more and more everyday, he was so honored and so proud to be with me. He told me his uncle wanted him out by January 15 that year, again I felt sorry for him and let him move in with me. We were so happy together and it didn't matter that he didn't have a car or a degree or even a great job, he treated me like gold. Then the holidays passed. I never noticed his drinking problem, I thought that he would cut back after the holidays, but after they passed his drinking continued along with his lies about drinking. I kicked him out dozens of times and took him back, then he begged me to marry him. We were engaged then he begged me to have his baby. A few months passed and I gave in. After I became pregnant that is when the lies, abuse and torture really escalated. For months he lied about his drinking sprees and so many other things, we were forced to move in with my mom after we got into a fight and l left my apartment and broke the lease. He drifted from one lousy job to the next, eventually my Grandparents helped us with a place of our own. Finally, I thought we can be alone and things will get better. They sure didn't. He began being increasingly physically and verbally abusive, I would fight back to hurt him too. Until the final night on November 29 when he drank half a fifth of Crown Royal rum, a six pack of beer and three muscle relaxers, I thought it would get better. With each punch to my head and kick to my back, the love was slowly beaten out of me. With each scream of whore, my heart broke in a million pieces. I left him that night. Strangely enough I wanted him back, even with everything in the past year: the lies, the drinking, the name calling, the accusations that this child wasn't even his, the lies he was telling his family, the expectations for me to have homosexual affairs with another woman for him, the coming home late and leaving early for work, his defending his womanizing father and every whore on the face of the earth. He left our apartment without paying the rent leaving me with no money for anything. Thankfully, my Grandparents are more than generous. I got a job the week I left him. He expected to come back after he had given his greedy father all our money for rent and food to fix his 1973 datsan pickup. That truck is still not fixed to this day. He showed up on Christmas with his father and his father's new whore. His father had told his step mother he wanted a divorce a week before Christmas. Now here were these vultures at my door. The following week I filed a restraining order and filed charges which are now being presented as felony charges for him holding a knife to my neck and cutting my keys off my neck November 29. I have placed my child for adoption with a wonderful family in hopes of keeping Robert's evil hands off of him. I have moved on in a months time and I already feel like it has been years. I have found the strength and courage to move on again without him. He thought I couldn't do it, he thought I would be so vulnerable right now being pregnant, but I'm not. I'm stronger than I have ever been and you too can be stronger than you ever thought you could be. I now have so many wonderful human beings around me from the church adoption organization I am attempting to go through. It's amazing how everything always comes back to God.

B1: Submit
Date: Tuesday, January 02, 2001

S1

Dear Astrid, I think in a funny sort of way the peace was tied up with being able to write. Unfortunately, this means being near to where I can plug the computer in. But in a strange sort of way bsrore everyone arrived the peace inside did return. I just determined to go at my own pace and felt calm.

Jake and husband and sister and family all arived at the same time and for the first time ever I didn't panic. My daughter came as well and it was a lovely evening. Although Jake wouldn't stop doing the laundry and went and had a bath without saying anything which left me uncertain as to waht he was doing. The missing bit of the equation was he hadn't said he goes back to work tomorrow! So I don't think it was being deliberately awkward and to give the man credit he did all the washing up. \

he did make comments about the washing up I had done not being good enough and complain I washed a duvet but I ignored him and all was well. The fear of being controlled went as quickly as it came.

One good thing is that I now know that my daughter ends her calls when she thinks she is going to get abusive. I think according to my sister it is a feeling that builds up inside. Interestingly my daughter thinks she came round to keep me company while Jake and Human KatKid were away. Somewhere along of today I realized that in a crazy mixed up way none of her problem is me at all. It is about her inability to cope with herself. In some mixed up way she has the idea she has to protect me from her in case she hurts me but she does this by pushing me as far away as she can. I hope I have this right.

 

I got a call from the DV unit who were very sweet and making sure I was o.k. Wanted to know if I wanted them to speak to Jake about non verbal abuse but I think that at present it would do more harm than good. The option is open if I need it. But I don't know if this is the effect of having a holiday as it has happened this way before Jake feels warm and gentle and more like he was than how he has been. I talked to the officer quite a while about whether what has gone on is the effects of grief: Also about what to do if my daughter turns violent and now they have a strategy on file so I can get her medical help and it all feels safer and as if I am protecting myself and Human KatKid. Also if things do get bad I can talk to them again about how Jake is.

have also been giving my daughter a lot of calming tea...and we have all been ignoring the "nonsense': descriptions of when I was drunk etc....I have decided my boundary as a mother is I do not want to know about this. I actually don't think a lot of what is said is true anyway. If it is there is nothing I can do but be there to pick the pieces up when the glamour of the lifestyle fades. And Pray.

dr Irene it is good you don't need affirmation; but I think I do. A friend came round yesterday as she is struggling with a course that technically I could teach. I realized I was still o.k and she was so affirming of me. This is the friend who managed to be a recovering codependent without knowing the word.

Weird to feel so angry and then it all gently floated away. I wasn't expecting that and no depression. My brain feels like it has had it's holiday and is getting back into gear.

I guess it could be worse. If jake is addicted to laundry and washing up at least they get done! he hasn't noticed the coat yet....I don't think you can die of a surfeit of banana custard..

The only problem now is nobody in the family, especially Human Katkid has a clue when school starts again, and my guess is that we are about to have the usual round of calls to friends who along with their parents have also no clue! happens every year and every holiday........!!!!!!!!!!

My nephew and niece who I have now seen for the second time in my life are sweet. Jay

B1: Submit
Date: Tuesday, January 02, 2001

S1

Hello, I am a freelance writer and also a subject of verbal abuse in high school. I had very loving parents, but I was considered a retard in school by my teachers and classmates. As a twenty six years old I am suffering repercussions due to the abuse. I fear being made fun of, I have clinical depression, I am recovering from SIV and I fear sharing my feelings with others. I believe there are others out there who are suffering with similar problems due to abuse in school and I would like to use their story for an article I am writing. Anyone interested can contact me at dreamwriter@hotmail.com. Tell me your story.

B1: Submit
Date: Wednesday, January 03, 2001

S1

Has anyone done Kerry King's spousal abuse tutorial on the net? Any comments?

B1: Submit
Date: Wednesday, January 03, 2001

S1

hELLO FRIENDS!!! I am back, Suzy here. I lost my internet provider for a while, now I have a new one. I'm sorry I haven't caught up with the posts, however, I see lots of new people. My husband and son finally moved out, and we are in the process of a legal separation. The house is so quiet now, it is nice and erie in a way. I posted a couple of weeks ago and I saw it in the box and the next day it was gone, weird, huh? How is Becky's health? How is Jay and the preacher and her health? How were the holidays? Well, lurking lawyer, you told me to get my husband out of the basement and he is gone, however, there is still just enough of his stuff in the house that he still makes me feel like he still lives here. You were advising me to get all that I am due, however, you seemed to not like the idea of alimony, why? Is it not owed after a marriage of a almost 19 year duration? I don't want to crucify him, he is only willing to pay child support and their medical and take on a small loan he gave me for my business, is this enough? I have 5 children ages 17 down to 9. People tell me he should be paying the house payment, car etc. until the kids are 21 (I am in NY state.) I just don't know, I don't feel good about my lawyer, in fact, many on this site told me to dump him. I have little money to work with. I just want to know what is fair and just that's all. Dr. Irene, is it normal to feel joy, anger, sadness and other all mixed up emotions when a spouse moves out? My emotions are like a roller coaster and I'm trying to keep it together for the kids. I feel like my husband's ugliness is trying to come out in me, is this normal after a separation from horrible emotional and verbal abuse? Well all, thanks for listening, I hope all is well for you all, Have a great day tomorrow and I will try and do the same. Love, Suzy

B1: Submit
Date: Thursday, January 04, 2001

S1

its time once again to critique this site

http://www.angelfire.com/tx/recoveredmemories/index.html

stop by the message board and join the debate and discussion

 B1: Submit
Date: Thursday, January 04, 2001

S1

Hi All,

Hope you all had a lovely Xmas and HAPPY New year to you all.

I have a question: What are the red flags to look for when you start a new relationship?

Take care Theressa

 

B1: Submit
Date: Thursday, January 04, 2001

S1

To my total amazement the coat wasn't made into an issue. Things seem pretty quiet in fact. All went so well with my sister and my daughter is trying to be friendly. Don't know what will happen when she finds herself homeless; hopefully she will agree to come home. No word on that front. Still winding but it must be pretty boring. Jake's birthday today and all still peaceful apart from the noise which emanated from the Human KatKid who is totally hyper as we let him drink coke.......

Feels almost as if I am unused to peace.

Only trifles to bother about. Well this time it was toast. I set fire to it and Jake panicked and I got mad at Jake for assuming I couldn't handle my own toast fire!!! Poor guy.

Suzy I hope things work out for you. Couldn't tell you what to do money wise. Actually I am really o.k health wise. The break at New Year was really therapeutic and I am even smiling again. No antidepressants and feeling on top. Becky hope you are o.k love to all. jay

 

B1: Submit
Date: Thursday, January 04, 2001

S1

Currently I'm living with my girlfriend who has been diagnosed with having borderline personality. I too have been diagnosed with having bi-polar, and possible personality. I love My girlfriend very much and want to stay with her. Right now she isn't sure if she wants to be with me or on her own one day she wants to be with me and the next she doesn't. What do I do? Right now I'm Currently on medication effexor and neorontin and she is taking Zoloft. the medication is working for but for her It doesn't seem to be helping her at all. I need help! Currently we both are receiving therapy but I don't think it's helping her, For me I'm doing better

B1: Submit
Date: Thursday, January 04, 2001

S1

Dear Everybody in the Cat Box,

Lynn here again. No advice for anybody, I can't even think for myself these days. I hate to say and think it, but his is all that's worked for me with Dan. Ignore, ignore and ignore. Today he wanted to know if I wanted to talk. I said I'd listen. Period. I did a good disengage yesterday. He went up to the larger town and brought me a carton of cigs. Menthol. There are 3 things I abhor in this world. The smell of maple syrup, the taste of plain catsup, and menthol cigarettes. I don't even like to be in a room when someone is smoking them. Passive aggressive or what???? I simply said, that it was ok and I'd smoke them and thanks for getting them for me. He's mad at you. Has your attitude ticked him off? 

I asked him about the driving thing the other day and what about it? He said he wasn't going to drive like that anymore. I wish someone would share this information with me once in a while. He also applied for a transfer to another state. Permanent position and no winter layoff. Yikes!

I know I have to give everything a rest because I make myself physically sick every time I try to "talk" to Dan. He wins every time, but he doesn't win much. I've also found out that if I give in an inch, he "quits." I felt we were doing so well when we both posted here. Kind of impersonal personal conversation. I don't think it's because of the therapist because he was posting after her. I think he thought he had me off his back and so then he had to do no more.

I asked him why he was going to the therapist. For "us" he replied. WRONG!

Also the stronger and more detached I get, the closer he hangs around. He is 2 or 3 inches near me wherever I am. With him not working now, and this strains him and with all that is going on with us, this drives me crazy. I don't mind 24/7, I'd just rather do it with someone I was talking to.

Ok, just had to get it out of my system and Dr. Irene, Just writing and posting does seem to take the pressure off of my stomach and head. I haven't been much because he is here next to me all the time and ... well and.  You guys were doing better when you were posting back and forth to each other. Seriously Lynn, I think you are frustrated with him for good reason. But I think he is mad at you for good reason too: You tell him what to do, nag, etc. and, I think, do so in a way that is on the loud side. Nagging etc. won't work. It will just get him to dig his heels in more. Instead: Without anger (and you are going to have to do some work on your underlying thinking and expectations to drop the anger), ask him whatever you are going to ask him once. After that, just do whatever you need to do to take care of what needs taken care of.  

Suzy, get all you can and don't shortchange your children a better way of life.

Theressa, you will know. One word or one action that hits you in the solar plexus will tell you! Don't talk yourself out of it either. If you get a feeling, trust your instincts and run, but keep getting help for yourself, too, so you don't repeat the patterns.

Jay, send the boy to me and he can help me compute. I just heard of WYSIWYG. Word processing and what you see is what you get and maybe I'll give it a try. Either that or I'm going to immerse myself in an HTML class so I can get as good as Trubble. I'm awestruck at the Loco pictures. Neat.

Hi the rest. I just wallowing. Have half the ornaments off the tree and just can't get the get up to get the rest packed and the tree out of here. Loco loves it though. He goes and gets an ornament and chases it up and down the hall till it breaks and then he gois and gets another.

We just sent in some pics to get developed. We had 27 rolls in the fridge and 2 one use cameras. I think there is one in the truck, too. We do take them in once in a while and get a couple developed, but really, 27 rolls. I do take pictures. I have to develop them tho!

We got the video of the moose in our yard. WOW! I don't have that much yard ad we got a great shot of the mama jumping over the fence. Awesome animals.

As for winter weather, we are in a ski resort town and have no snow. It's suppose to get up in the 50's. One thing nice about here is even when it's 40 below 0 the sun still shines bright.

Well guys, that's my life in a nutshell.

Best of luck and may we all have a brighter 2001. Love, Lynn and fresh Salmon for Trubble.

B1: Submit
Date: Thursday, January 04, 2001

S1

Hello;

I just finished surviving a second Christmas and New Year's alone, without my family.

I am a 36 year old male who has abused my common law wife physically, emotionally, verbally, etc. I was also abused by her in similar ways.

The last time I saw my family was during a weekend visit where my two step children and my partner would come up to my home. I had been taking care of my 2 year old son for several weeks by this point. We had several tense arguments on Friday evening, mostly about the effects, and direction our year long separation would take. Saturday morning early Melissa is off to work with several hugs and kisses. Despite our problems, I am so in love with her.

Saturday night she is over two hours late and I decide to do a very childish thing. I put her backpack out on the porch and go to bed. When she finally arrives, I go to the door and just give her the finger, and return to bed.

The next morning, my son awakes around 7:00, and is soon followed by my 6 year old step daughter, we are having a nice time, joking about and watching a funny kids movie.

I go to the dining room to shut the window, when I noticed a strange object on the window. I went outside to investigate. It was some sort of acoustic surveillance device. Within seconds I hear loud shouting coming from my laneway where I spot two men in full combat gear, cammed faces, and automatics drawn.

It turns out to be part of a tactical unit arrest. Over 30 vehicles involved.

I was in shock.

Melissa had gone from getting the finger from me to the police station the night before. I spent a month in jail then got an additional 3 years probation with restrictions on having no communication with any member of my family.

I had told Melissa to stop yelling or get out. Which eventually escalated in me shoving her out violently, and telling her to shut up and leave or I would kill her. I scared her completely. I was stressed to the max and not listening to her advice. Instead becoming her enemy and her mine.

Oh how I miss them all so completely.

How ashamed I feel. Full of regret. Wish a had tried harder to get the counselling I need this past year. If only I ...

Now I do not know what to do.

The violence as described by the Judge was of the extreme low end of the spectrum.

But now I am not even fit to send a Christmas card. I am a very good parent. With the exception of course of how my fighting with Melissa effects them. So how does one go from contact to none. How do the children feel? How do I grieve?

I wish things would be different. I know I have certain problems. I have always been willing to seek out treatment. But the destruction of a family seems so extreme, and wrought with trauma.

There are tough times in life that require the support of family and community. Keep families together and healthy. Rather than spinning of the Dad into oblivion.

Help. I just do not know what to do.

Heartbroken

B1: Submit
Date: Thursday, January 04, 2001

S1

Hi Suzy, Theressa, Jay, Lynn & others.

Suzy, IMO, I think that you will know in your heart what is fair as far as alimony goes. Personally, I don't think the laws always reflect what's fair. Do what seems fair, to you, the children and to him. I think that women sometimes go wrong by using issues of alimony, support, etc to "punish", but in no way am I saying that you are/or would do that. You may in fact be doing the opposite - putting yourself in jeopardy to get him off your back. That's not fair either. I think every situation is unique, and it all depends on legally what you are entitled to. Just my opinion.

Theressa - I agree with Lynn's advice - go with your gut.

Lynn - I also miss Dan posting, and wonder why he has stopped. Not even for your sake, but for his own. It seemed like he was getting a lot out of it.

I think I feel discouraged and somewhat distant, right now. The issues don't go away, they just pile up, unless they get talked about. I still care about Steve, but I don't feel like I can move forward until some of the past issues get dealt with. Mostly, I'd just like acknowledgement that things I've been upset about are valid (I know they are for me), or at least that they need to be looked at in order for the relationship to go further. I don't *need* this, but I do want this. Steve and I have both been busy lately, so there hasn't been a lot of time, and I know this contributes to some of the lack of communication.

I also don't want to get into the old merry-go-round, which I sort of feel it might, should I be the one to try to "resolve" things between us. I would just like some real, caring discussion. But I feel it's up to Steve now to decide whether or not to do this.

Anyways, what will be, will be.

take care all.

Asha

B1: Submit
Date: Friday, January 05, 2001

S1

Hello Friends, ...Suzy here... Thank you for all the good advice....Yes, Yes, Yes, look for the "red flags", the little uneasiness in your gut when something just didn't sound quite right and you decide to dismiss it. Looking back, I saw many "red flags" but I ignored them or made excuses for them....(oh, he had a bad day at work etc.) I think the best way to protect yourself in a new relationship is to first (before you even get into a new relationship) is to work on yourself. Chances are from the years of abuse, you have forgotten who you are, what your passions are and what do you love? (from the pattern of the upholstery on a couch, to what is your favorite color? what do you love to do? what have you dreamed of doing? what do you love to wear?) Go explore the world, go to the mall and be a "professional people watcher", you can even learn from this ...see how people interact...both healthy and unhealthy...all of these experiences makes you take a good look at yourself and what you want and how you now would like to be treated now, and when you form that in your mind, you will attract it. If you attract a abuser again, you will quickly recognize it before it is too late. I say take the best care ever of YOU and the rest will take care of itself, you will just know, TRUST YOURSELF, because you are SO WONDERFUL!!! Dear Heartbroken, that is a tough story and a dear price you have paid. I believe you are not alone, my husband is heartbroken too, and tries to blame it all on me, however, it was HIS violence that got him to the place he is now....ALONE. I have compassion for him, but I do not have to live with it any longer. In the last round of violence, before he had to leave our home, he tried to tell me he was "just joking"...it wasn't funny. I know another man who wasn't doing well in his marriage and not treating his wife very nicely, and constantly accusing her of having affairs...one day out of "desperation" he brought out a loaded gun and just kept it on his lap, "trying to decide if he was going to kill himself or not" when his wife came in and he waved it at her. That scared her enough that it was the beginning of the end for them, he went to jail and lost his reputation, and his family. I'm sure it wasn't the incident of the gun alone, that scared her enough to get police help. What I am saying is, a backpack on the porch and a finger in the air is not what caused you to loose your family, it was all the other incidences that occurred before. I feel extremely bad the law was so harsh that you cannot even have supervised visitation, however, it is done and you MUST grieve and take care of you and work on yourself, do something nice for someone else, all is not lost, you sound like you are in dispair, know you can use this experience to help other men learn to control their anger, help another. I think you are extremely brave to come to this site, it will help, and even when we think we are weak and can't do anything, your honest words of advice may help another.Welcome to the site, you will find many who will help and try and understand. Love to you all and a terrific day tomorrow. Suzy

B1: Submit
Date: Friday, January 05, 2001

S1

Hi Dan and Steve,

I want a male opinion, If Lynn writes in maybe you could ask Dan for me:

If a girl slept with you the first week you'd both met wouldn't you think she was asking to be used just for physical pleasure?

If she refused would you be on your way?

Sorry if this is inappropriate but I don't know who else to ask.

Thanks T.

B1: Submit
Date: Friday, January 05, 2001

S1

I can

and I can

and I will

and I have.

 

Disempower me no more!

With senseless put downs

And endless words of dust.

 

My secret is I can.

 

I am master of my vision

The queen of my decisions

A manager of dreams.

 

My secret is I can

 

And all the can'ts you gave me

Are only in your mind

And all the should's you gave me

lie dormant in your life

 

My secret is I can

 

Have a life to validate me

Though you've chosen to downgrade me

In the way that you upbraid me

 

My secret is you can't

 

And only you can choose

To be with me in what I do

Or to walk with me alone

Hi jay here, just checking in. Not really feeling like I need to but there is a mad family rumpus between daughter son and Human Katkid about who should play what chords on the guitar. This one they can't blame me for as I can't play the guitar. Daughter is round as she seems to want her washing done: suits me. like old times with people singing so I am really enjoying it. But Human Katkid seems to find it hard not to be the only one. A lot of resentment about his sister leaving coming out so it is a bit like walking on eggshells as well. Usually they get on so I am not sure why this comes up now. Possibly competition for Jake's attention.

I actually took my power today and went to see my MP and talked to him about problems in the Acts which caused the problem with my daughter and at least he took an interest. Never even met an MP in my life before but he seems o.k. He said he would raise the issues.

Like Lynn. I feel like I have no advice for anyone but I do think a lot about the posts...so much suffering.

Lynn we will be experts at this I knew what WYSIWYG without looking it up. The stupid thing is if Jake came to you he would spend hours with YOU. But he won't help me at all. There is quite a lot of free stuff on the web to learn HTML

Asha what gets me is when someone says move on without resolving the past. I see where you are coming from as I need the past resolved before I can move on.

Dear T.

Why assume anything about anyone. Maybe the thing that is best is NOT to sleep with the girl in the first week. Women do strange things and so do men because they are insecure sleeping with guys they just met can be one of them. How are you to know unless you can be strong enough to leave things until a relationship has had time to develop. the thing is to respect the other person and take time to get to know them.

I think most of it comes down to showing respect for your fellow human being.

love Jay

B1: Submit
Date: Saturday, January 06, 2001

S1

Jay. " I feel disempowered by what you say." Jake " I an not disempowering you." Jay" I do feel disempowered by what you say." Jake "That is your problem." Jay " No, my problem is that you discount my feelings." Jake "That is your problem" Jay "No my problem is that you are totally unable to look at the opposite point of view. You discount what I say before I have finished saying it." JaKe "other people have told me ...hundreds of people who have been involved with you." Jay "What people. Name them/ Jake "Doctors." Jay : You tell me I won't let you speak to doctors so what is the name of this doctor. Jake "Someone while you were ill. You told him "call yourself a doctor (I did get frustrated with one who spoke over me to staff as I felt he was extremely disrespectful of me as a person: sort of 'does she take sugar approach.") jay. "O.K you can speak to my psychologist. Three have not identified me as the family victim" Jake " I only want to speak to her if she thinks it is relevant." (He has been telling me he wants to do this for months!) Jay. " It would be helpful for me to speak to your marriage guidance therapist. What is his/her name. Jake "It isn't relevant." Jay "Why do you think you should speak to someone and then prevent me...." Jay " You don't see and I acknowledge I am shouting I am sorry I just get so frustrated. but you are also verbally abusive. All I want for this marriage to succeed is to have from you that this marriage failure is ALL all my fault. To see that you have some capacity to look at yourself." Jake " That is your problem. (He meant in the sense of he thinks he is OK and it is all me). Jay. "We will have to divorce as I can't go on with this any more. Jake "I am having nothing to do with it." Jay. "Can I read you something out of this book by Patricia Evans.... Jake "No." (He won't look at anything I ask him to) Jay "So you won't sit down and talk things over for ten minutes. I don't want to change you I just want to express my feeling and see where you are coming from. I am calling the divorce lawyer otherwise as there is no hope. I am not putting Human Katkid through this any more (voices trying to keep low getting raised..)

jake.....I am not engaging. Walks out of the front door.....

Damm. The lawyer doesn't work Saturdays Jake

 

B1: Submit
Date: Saturday, January 06, 2001

S1

PRESSED the button too soon. Meant to add HELP! love Jay.

B1: Submit
Date: Saturday, January 06, 2001

S1

I meant three psyches have identified me as the family victim! Jay

 

B1: Submit
Date: Sunday, January 07, 2001

S1

Dear Dr Irene, Trubble and the rest of the family,

First off welcome to all the newcomers.

To T,

Come on guy, get real, women have the same desires that a man has so if you sleep together the first few times you see each other, is there a commitment?, only the two of you and time can answer that. If she doesn't then why fly, perhaps she just wants to see how committed you are, or perhaps there just isn't the spark to light her fire so to speak. This is an age old question that only you can answer, is it infatuation or the idea that it's something unattainable (for now) which has you reaching at straws.

It's been awhile since I have posted, because my new therapist said that she didn't want to have conflicting responses from her and Dr Irene.

Lynn feels that I have returned to my old ways since I haven't been posting, I'm not sure of this although I did leave the plant watering can out and didn't put it away when I got through. She also told me and posted here that I have until the end of the year to cure myself or she's leaving. She also said in the same breath that she wasn't leaving her home or her animals. The one feeling that I have got over is the one of being unable to live without her. I found while she was on vacation and while I was working out of town that I could take care of myself, not as well as when we're together but I can never the less. 

The funny thing (not ha ha funny) about my going to the therapist is that we were going to go to help us with my abusive nature. I'm going, and I want to finish this time, and Lynn isn't. One difference between this therapist and the old is that when I came home from a session before, I would tell Lynn what we went over, this time I'm not. No particular reason, just some of the things we talk about are stuff that concerns my family and Lynn has heard it all before.

Lynn has also posted about my applying for a couple of jobs, full time rather than part time all out of state. She says that she's not worried about moving because by the time I get around to sending for her, I'll be retired. This comes from the time that I was working out of our original hometown and left her there until I could find a place for us to live, it took me awhile to find a place and then it was actually my sister in laws sister who found it for us. Lynn found our present home in two weeks or less.

This could turn into a mini novel so please bear with me.

One thing that seems to really upset Lynn is when I say "if I said that" not meaning it literally that I may not have said it, just using it in a general term, like he is used in the English language for gender terms. I'm not denying that I said whatever, it's just my way of speaking.

Christmas I called my mother and one of my brothers answered the phone and I talked to him and then asked to talk to her instead of my dd brother, who I really wanted to talk to, my mother made a remark in the background that, I feel that if I had talked to the dd brother first, would have made me hang up. Lynn said that she knows better and that I wouldn't have hung up. I feel that I would although this is a mute point as I didn't talk to the dd brother first. I could have asked to talk to him first but I never. I have come to realize something though, I posted last that I had a homework assignment as to why my smoking has increased, well I thought about it, and when I'm working I have to go outside, and now I can smoke in the house. Also I feel that the stress of our present relationship (which Lynn says we don't have) is a contributing factor. Speaking of smoking, I pulled a doozie, the other day. I went to the big city and on my way home I stopped and bought a carton for each of us. When I got home, I noticed that the smokes that I got for Lynn were menthals. I know she doesn't smoke menthals, so I don't know how I made that mistake. Why, I really can't say, I know that I was surprised when I saw what type they were when I got home. Lynn said that she would smoke them though, although she could smoke mine and I would smoke them. Me thinks ye is angry at Lynn Dan. It's OK to be mad with her. Try to identify why. This might be a good topic for therapy cuz I bet you did this with your family of origin too!

Lynn posted about the dog growling at me the other night as I was getting into bed, perhaps she sensed my anger. This dog has barked and growled at me at this time since we got her, and I haven't felt angry every night, and usually I know when I'm angry.

I also straightened the tub enclosure this last week, something which I had planned to do from the time I put it in. The other night we were discussing this, and I got defensive, and when Lynn asked, I admitted it. I was feeling as though this problem had become a major issue, and try as I might, I could not stop the defensiveness.

In the couples book, he speaks of the power struggle which begins when a commitment is made, and the last few months, I have felt as though we were in a king of the hill battle. The most powerful person winning. Right now, I feel that I'm losing and don't know what I can do to jointly serve on the hill.

Over the holidays, I felt that things were a bit better between Lynn and I. She told me that I was living in a dream word, not her actual words, that things were no better but even worse. We don't even kiss each other any more because Lynn told me that when she kisses me, I tend to develop the attitude that our troubles are over. "We have no relationship we're just sharing the same house."

I think that I better sign off now before this turns into an epic.

To all,

My thoughts are with you

Trubble,

Loco loves the idea of you and he headlining the cat box site. Sounds good to me FakeDaddyDan!

Hugs

Dan

B1: Submit
Date: Sunday, January 07, 2001

S1

Dear Cat Box family.

I'm back and I have a couple of more things which I would like to say.

In one of Lynn's posts she said that she doesn't know how anyone could be that stupid. The first time she said that to me, I was going to the old therapist then, and I told her that Lynn had called me stupid. Lynn said that she didn't, that she said that nobody could be that stupid. I still feel that no matter how she said it that she is calling me stupid. This could turn into a bandying (Lynn's term) of words and meanings, like my using if. It's a put down...

I posted about our night out, and the following discussion(?) but while we were out Lynn said that I was trying to change her, that we never had any fun anymore. The fun part is true, although I think that a couple can have fun doing things and Lynn and did other than drinking and gambling. I no longer drink anymore than two or three. There was a time when things were going wrong in my life, I would climb into a bottle for days or weeks at a time. I do know what its like to live for the bottle and nothing but where the next drink is coming from, I don't want to be like that again. This to me now isn't fun.

Lynn keeps telling me that we are in our 50's and we should have these problems solved. I posted once to lurking lawyer that there are days that I feel and act younger. same for present age and feeling older. I am happy with my age and even if I weren't, I don't know of a method to turn back the clock.

There are some things which I have discussed with the therapist about Lynn and I, but as I told her, these are my perspectives and Lynn has hers. This I'm sure is true of everyone here on the boards, Steve and Asha are also good examples, they both have given their viewpoints, although reading Steve's last post, I have to agree with Dr Irene, in that he is able to communicate with her other than here, I have, (you have given me good insight and advice, Dr Irene & Trubble).

Lynn told me that she is so very tired, and not from lack of sleep, and I have to admit that I am also. She posted about the car keys, saying that I got bullyish, and I have to admit that I did. I have apologized to her, in the way that she wanted me to. The only thing that I would like to say here is that I wasn't sorry for getting caught, I spent too much time in trouble as a kid to feel sorry when I was caught. I felt like a heel from day one, and I think that in actuality I was glad that she found them.

She asked me the other night if I had any idea what she thought of me, my answer was not as well as when we first became lovers and involved. I don't think that there will ever be a time when she will think of me like that again, as there has been too much water under the bridge. I hope that she will eventually begin to like me again, though as a person as well as a mate.

This roommates thing has me feeling yukky as everyone says and I think that the answer is in the very near future. Together or not together, that is the question, be it nobler to work together or stand alone....(to paraphrase a famous quote)

Thanks for listening to me

hugs

Dan

B1: Submit
Date: Sunday, January 07, 2001

S1

Asha here.

Hi all, and a special hi to Lynn and Dan.

First some of my own thoughts, then feedback to you two.

Though I still feel pretty misunderstood about some issues, I see that Steve has been exercising self control, and has been a lot calmer over the past few days. Good for him!

I'm still feeling edgy because I'm not resolved about the issues that I posted about awhile back. Steve hasn't talked to me about them. I know he feels he hasn't had the time to talk though. My biggest concern is that he may not think my feelings about those issues are "valid". That was a problem in the past.

I don't need to be right, but I want to be acknowledged as a person who has feelings, and when I hurt, the hurt is to be looked at, not shoved away somewhere. I don't want Steve to solve my hurt, but I want him to understand why I hurt. Most of it has to do with the past. I can remove my "buttons" but I won't live in a relationship where my feelings are not considered valid, or if my concerns are not taken seriously.

So much about these issues revolves around family, and "sacrificing".

Another thing - sort of an aside - I realized today that even for me, there is a fine line between "help" and control, and at times my feelings from the past get mixed up in today's reality. Good insight Asha! For example, Steve was cooking, and I offered advice. I think it was taken by Steve as passive aggression - it wasn't aggression, but I did think I could help "direct" the cooking activity "better", and realized that the "too many chef's" saying is very true. :)  I got out of his way. Also, when Steve closed the dogs into the back hall while he was getting the food ready because they were getting underfoot, my reaction was to want to "release" them. Old stuff I know. He wasn't being unreasonable, and though I would deal with it differently, there are times when I need to back off and let him be. Yippeee! She's got it! There are things I don't feel "great" about, but I can live with temporarily. There are other things I know I can't live with, and those are the ones that I need to be firm about.

As I mentioned earlier, whatever Steve is feeling inside, he is behaving quite calmly over the past couple of days. Not acting as if I'm "trying to push his buttons" (which I'm not - I have to much of my own junk to deal with to purposely attempt to mess it up more), Even when we are really disagreeing on an approach with the kids and it appears that he's not very happy about something I've done, he's held it together and "bounced back".

I still think he and I have lots of differences on how we approach issues with the kids, and I think both of us could improve in how we deal with certain issues.

A few nights ago Steve's friend called last minute and Steve decided to go visit with him. He asked if I would mind looking after the kids, and (because I had work I had planned to do) told him that it wasn't convenient. Oh sure I "could" have taken them, but I felt like I would be resentful about dropping my plans to accommodate him. At first he seemed angry, but then we spoke later and he seemed to understand. Then I felt more open to it, and was willing to take them, though I told him that I wasn't going to be able to entertain them much. I do enjoy the kids, and he seemed to think I was punishing him, but what I really felt was that I no longer want to be taken for granted. This is about the past (big surprise). A couple of times Steve left me with the kids after a friend called and wanted him to meet for coffee (once when my family was visiting, another when I was alone with him and the kids and we had planned to do some things together). When I questioned the appropriateness, Steve was angry with me. I think what he didn't understand (perhaps) is that I didn't just want to see the kids - I was desiring family bonding, between Steve, my family, his family (i.e. the kids) and me. At that time, I felt I saw the kids so rarely that these occasions were extra-important to me.

Steve's friend called again today and asked if they could meet this evening. Steve had the courtesy to check with me about this today and ask if I would mind looking after the kids. I didn't have a problem with that, but I didn't feel completely great about it because the kids leave tomorrow and it was our last evening together. I told Steve this and he said it wouldn't be until later. While these plans were still being confirmed Steve told me that my reaction felt to him like a pattern with his X, where she guilted him when he went to visit friends. I don't know anything about that situation, but for me it's not to do with wanting to restrict his time with friends, or wanting to be the "only" one in his life. I really don't want that at all. That would be hypocritical, because I have friends of my own I want to spend time with alone. Though I may be I'm oversensitive to these family issues, I don't feel like I was being unreasonable to want our last night together. Asha, you can want what you want, but, if it's not easily forthcoming, why not "want" what you get. You'll be happier! Steve said that he "can't win", that when he shows his trust in me with leaving his kids with me, then I feel I'm being taken for granted. He said that I complain about not seeing the kids, but when he leaves them with me I'm not happy. I feel the trust issue is something totally different and has nothing to do with this. For me this is about spending time as a family. I don't complain anymore about not seeing the kids (this is also old stuff from the days when Steve went to see the kids on his own).

For me, it's Steve's involvement that makes it "family" vs just babysitting. The plan was finally confirmed and Steve made it a later get together which I was okay with. When Steve went to go, the kids were still awake, and I sensed in them a disappointment about his leaving as well. It worked out okay because they needed to go to bed earlier anyway, but it confirms to me that my feelings are not irrational. Of course they're not irrational! But, remember the Stones' song: "You can't always get what you want...But you'll get what you need..."

okay now on another note...

Dan

I'm glad to see your posts again.

I think that your only "mistake" with the menthols was not telling Lynn that you realized you had made a mistake. Had you said right away that you realized you'd made an error, I think you would have saved yourself some grief.

You said you were feeling angry when you went to bed. What have you been feeling angry about?  Lynn! Teeheehee

Had Lynn asked you about straightening the tub enclosure? If so, an explanation to her about why it was like that would have saved some grief also, I think. No need to "defend", just explain. Lynn, too, don't know if you asked in a non-accusatory tone why it was like that. If you could both learn to be straightforward and not to be offended by the other, there would be no reason to defend anything. This could be reduced to simple questions and explanations.

Dan, you said: <<I have felt as though we were in a king of the hill battle. The most powerful person winning. Right now, I feel that I'm losing and don't know what I can do to jointly serve on the hill. >>

No-one has to win or lose. It seems to me that you both over-interpret each other. Dan, what if you stopped being afraid of her reactions and just told her when you felt you'd goofed, or when you feel bad about something that happened. This kind of honestly goes *miles*! But it seems no-one likes to do this. It reminds me of one of Steve's kids today who was protecting his ego and saying he "didn't do it", when he obviously did. What really bothered me about it, is that after these incidents, it's harder to completely believe what he is telling you. Something else happened with him and I "suspected" there was even more to it than he admitted to, though I'm not sure. But this can all change if you decide to be consistently straightforward about things you mess up on. We *all* mess up - no one's perfect! Except *Me*

By the way Dan, how do you feel about the therapy? How is it going for you?

Dan said: <<The only thing that I would like to say here is that I wasn't sorry for getting caught, I spent to much time in trouble as a kid to feel sorry when I was caught. I felt like a heel from day one, and I think that in actuality I was glad that she found them. >>

What a horrible feeling that must be. I think that this feeling is hurting you a lot. You have to remember that Lynn is different than your mother and if you mess up and "admit" to it, gently and honestly, that won't make you a bad person. Betcha anything it would make things easier on you over the long run. It's harboring those awful feelings that seems to damage both you and your relationship.

<<I don't think that there will ever be a time when she will think of me like that again, as there has been to much water under the bridge. I hope that she will eventually begin to like me again, though as a person as well as a mate.>>

The water under the bridge stuff (from my point of view) makes it harder when your mate falls back into old patterns (that feeling of same ole same ole), but it could also give you incentive *not* to go into those unhealthy patterns. After all, who can point them out better than someone who's lived with you that long?

I think that changing these old thought patterns is just plain hard work, and like an exercise regime, you must commit to it, and stick with it to get healthy.

keep with it Dan.

Well, I've gotta go, I'm pooped. This was a long post.

take care all.

Asha

B1: Submit
Date: Sunday, January 07, 2001

S1

Dear all,

just came back from a two weeks vacation. Wish you all the best for the new year and hope we will all find the courage to do what must be done and learn to listen to ourSelves.

Did a little reading but find it hard to pick up the details quickly. Seems nothing really changed these two weeks, expect for Astrid: well done, keep it up!!!. What did I expect anyway :-). I am glad the holidays are over and done with and live has returned to a more or less normal state. No expectations, no hopes for great holidays, just the usual stuff.

Had a nice holiday, like a warm bath. Thanked the Lord for sms and mobile phones which made it possible to keep contact with C. without the pressure of having to talk to much. He picked me up at the airport and it was nice. Was very tired and lost of work, so he went home to return the next evening. He is sweet and considerate and I do not know what to think. No I love you's, no I have missed you's. But even so, it felt good to see him, and it felt good to be able to let him leave without trying to keep him with me.

On holiday (I went to visit his family) I found that I really am very jealous about other people in his live. More so then I had imagined I was. Maybe I am just more sensitive to my feelings.

I almost had a fight with his mother about who would be ‘allowed' to buy him a tablecloth!!! Can you imagine. He asked me to bring one, and the she immediately wanted to get it for him and I really got upset. So stupid. We talked it over, I said I feel so jealous, and she answered, I'll make a more beautiful one for you any time... So sweet, but not what I meant. I think, I do want to be ‘the only one in his live'. I never realised it as strong as now, but I seem to be jealous of everyone who gets his attention, in whatever way. I probably acted like that a lot, without knowing. So in a way I am glad I know now: it makes it easier to process and not act out.

I also felt mote able to deal with my uncertainty towards him, with my feelings of being obligated to ‘entertain', and I felt more at ease then I have felt in a long time. Still the nagging feeling of: we should live together in a normal way stays with me. Even though that is not what I want.

Dan and Lynn, Steve and Asha, Astrid, Suzy, Anne, Theressa, all you new people on the block and of course Dr. I. and Trubble, lots of love to you all, a great new year and lets work together again as we did last year!!

Love AJ

B1: Submit
Date: Sunday, January 07, 2001

S1

Hi Dr Irene, I came on your site today for the first time in months. It was rather a shock to find that I hadn't read any of the recent postings, as just a year or two ago I checked everything out daily. For a long time your webpages were the ONLY source of support and validation I received. I read everything on your site and bought many of the recommended books. I can't tell you how much strength I gained, as well as sensible, practical advice from you and your contributors. Now I'm out of my second abusive marriage and it's unlikely that I will fall into the same trap again. Not only that but I have taken 3 semesters of a degree in Counseling, motivated partly at the lack of counselors (or recognition of verbal/psychological abuse) and will shortly begin on the 4th. I intend to complete my degree and hopefully, when my healing is complete can contribute in a positive way. I live in Scandinavia where verbal/emotional abuse is just not recognized as a problem by most people, but hopefully influence from the USA and UK will improve the situation for women like myself. I am also very interested in the possible connections between Co-dependency and eating disorders, so if you or any of your contributors have any literature or articles to recommend I would be very grateful. I'll close with my grateful thanks, and a short story courtesy of uinspire.com. Nails in the Fence:

There was a little boy with a bad temper. His father gave him a bag of nails and told him that every time he lost his temper, to hammer a nail in the back fence.

The first day the boy had driven 37 nails into the fence. Then it gradually dwindled down. He discovered it was easier to hold his temper than to drive those nails into the fence.

Finally the day came when the boy didn't lose his temper at all. He told his father about it and the father suggested that the boy now pull out one nail for each day that he was able to hold his temper.

The days passed and the young boy was finally able to tell his father that all the nails were gone.

The father took his son by the hand and led him to the fence.

You have done well, my son, but look at the holes in the fence. The fence will never be the same. When you say things in anger, they leave a scar just like this one. You can put a knife in a man and draw it out, it won't matter how many times you say "I'm sorry," the wound is still there. A verbal wound is as bad as a physical one.

- Source Unknown Sincerely BJ bajazz@ivillage.com

My favorite kind of former "regular" is the kind who no longer needs us anymore. Keep up the good work! Doc & Trubble.

B1: Submit
Date: Sunday, January 07, 2001

S1

This is mostly to Dan and Lynn but maybe others can get something out of it.

It's difficult, sometimes we get into speech patterns that we don't even realize are hurtful or offensive. Or maybe we realize it but don't think they're THAT bad...even though they are.

One of mine that I know used to really make L upset with me was "It's nothing YOU would understand" in response either to "What's wrong?" or just generally when I was thinking about something that I knew full well he didn't know about or care to know anything about. (One of our early major fights started because he announced to me that an author he had never read was "boring" and I got very offended.) Sometimes when I said it, I wasn't trying to start a fight (sometimes I was trying to stop what I knew would turn into one), but it still wasn't very nice of me. Especially since I knew he didn't like that.

And I know what Lynn means about "if I kiss you, you think things are fine even though they aren't." It's difficult to still love someone and want to show that, but at the same time to be very angry with them. I used to try to explain that to L but I don't think he ever understood it. It was very frustrating. I'm a very physically affectionate person by nature, but it seemed like L would stop taking me seriously that there was a problem if I was willing to do much more than give him a hug.

As for not having fun, is the problem that you have different ideas about what is "fun" or that you don't make time to do "fun" things anymore, or that you're too nervous in each other's company? Or maybe something else?

As for being too old to have problems "like that", I'm 23 and I sometimes feel that way. In fact, "I'm too OLD for this junk!" was one of the things that led me to decide to get out. On the other hand, I also felt like I was too old to start the whole dating thing all over again...most of my friends (admittedly a few years older) are settling down, and I wanted to do likewise. It's what I posted before about losing the dream. I don't know if I would've been so quick to leave if I was 53 instead of 23. Probably not.

But we all have things we need to work on, no matter how old we are. It helps if we can fix the worst of them at a fairly early age, but nobody's perfect. (Trubble, I can hear you thinking "except me!" *smiles* You're just too darn cute.) Another RealMommy? Maybe, maybe?

Take care, everyone. *hugs*

Astrid

B1: Submit
Date: Sunday, January 07, 2001

S1

Asha here.

Hi all. Nice to see you back AJ, and Astrid.

I have done some contemplating on the topic of being "too old" for such and such, over the past few months. I'm 36, and as far as being physically able to have kids, I am now aware that the biological time clock is ticking. Funny how I'd never worried about having or not having kids before, and then, on my 35th birthday, I became aware that my decisions now will determine that. The "fear" for me is not so much about having or not having kids, but about having "family". My own family is small - my mom, dad and sister. My extended family is also small, and not close (in distance or relationship). I have a fear that when my mom and dad die, I will be basically alone.

I realize that because of this, it's really important for me to invite close friendships, and not get too isolated. Lately a few people I've met have been drawn to me, and rather than put my work or other things first, I'm making the decision to bring more friendships into my life. Maybe I will need to adopt new family - like Astrid with her "chosen brother". I've noticed that others also feel this lack of community or closeness. I think that's why people choose to go to church or other spiritual gatherings. Or even find RealMommies and Daddies.

I also know that a "time clock" isn't a good reason to give birth to a child, and that my desire to give doesn't have to be fulfilled by having a baby. There are many many people out there who are in need, and my wish to help others can be carried out in lots of different ways. Bernie Siegal, in one of his tapes about healing, talks about how to deal with loss of loved ones. He says the solution is to "find new people cat-humans to love".

A friend once said to me that life is "a sexually transmitted, terminal illness". So true. Regardless of where we are at in the present moment, we all start the same way and end the same way.

take care all

Asha

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