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4/14 Interactive Board: Codependent Partners

3/23 Interactive Board: He's Changing... I'm Not...

3/1 Interactive Board: D/s Lifestyle

1/14 Interactive Board: My Purrrfect Husband

12/12 Interactive Board: What if He Could Have Changed?

10/23 Interactive Board: Quandary Revisited

8/24 Interactive Board: Quandary! What's Going On?

7/20: Dr. Irene on cognitive behavior therapy and mindfulness

6/12 Interactive Board: Unintentional Abuse

11/7 Interactive Board: Is This Abusive?

12/29 Interactive Board: There Goes the Wife...

11/4 Interactive Board: A New Me!

10/8 Interactive Board: Seeming Impossibility

9/8 Interactive Board: My Ex MisTreats Our Son

5/1 Interactive Board: I feel Dead - Towards Him

4/26 Interactive Board: Why is This So Hard?

4/19 Interactive Board: I Lost My Love...

4/7 Interactive Board: Too Guilty!

Doc@DrIrene.com

Comments for Buddha 4

Comments for Buddha 4

Material posted here is intended for educational purposes only, and must not be considered a substitute for informed advice from your own health care provider.

Courtesy of Dr. Irene Matiatos   Copyright© 2000. The material on this website may be distributed freely for non-commercial or educational purposes provided that author credit is given. For commercial distribution, please contact the author at Doc@drirene.com

Back to Buddha 3

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B1: Submit
Date: Wednesday, November 22, 2000

S1

Hi David,

Sorry I didn't get back to you, I've been off work with Flu. I just got back, I live in Manchester. I've been to London a few times though. YOU can e-mail me at: 26THER@altavista.co.uk.

Hope to hear from you soon.

Love Theressa

B1: Submit
Date: Wednesday, November 22, 2000

S1

Hi Astrid,

I like your last post, its fabulous!!!

Well I have a major task ahead of me that gonna need some great support. I've got to attempt to RELY on me. Cuz the only person I can ever RELY on 100% is myself!! Okay I get that!!! Now for some action. I've got to put up a curtain rail. I have been given some goals by my counselor to do any minor jobs myself, decorating, putting up curtain rails (NOT what I'd call minor for me, though I guess they are!!!) OH WELL I guess I'll make some mistakes and learn lots. I am very afraid of not doing it right. CRITICISM, can I bear it!!!

Glad to be back!!! DAN glad you used your time away reading Buddha. Glad you have now returned.

AND Hi to Lynn, Jay, Asha, Astrid, Anne, Steve, Becky, David and anyone else who is part of the this wonderful growing community.

Love Theressa

B1: Submit
Date: Thursday, November 23, 2000

S1

David

Happy Thanksgiving

Dan

B1: Submit
Date: Monday, November 27, 2000

S1

Dear Theressa,

Hello there, I'm the family Genealogist and Dan's family was from Manchester, England.

Hello all. Hope you all had a nice Holiday. I did, but am glad to be home.

Talk to you later, Lynn

B1: Submit
Date: Wednesday, November 29, 2000

S1

Hi David,

Sorry, I forgot to let you know it wasn't possible for me to get to London last weekend, I thought I had but I realize I hadn't. SORRY

A point this lunch time I was thinking about, my lack of awareness about communicating. Here goes how my thinking went: I was thinking about how angry my X gets. The other night Monday, I went to my therapy session as usual (my X usually calls by when I return to say goodnight to Missy) anyway I had also arranged to meet my uncle to retrieve some money from him for a planned party he is helping to pay towards, then I had to go and give a family friend the money to book the function room, we got on to talking about the writing on the invitations etc. The time was now 8.am, I went to my mom's to pick up MISSY, she wouldn't get ready, she messed about, we left my mom's at 8.20am. I had forgotten my cell phone this morning.

Anyway when I arrived home my X was sat in his car (he has no key to my place) he didn't look pleased. Though he didn't say much. As I entered the living room I notice my cell phone upon the tv. My X said "I've been sat waiting for you since 7.40pm its now 45 minutes later, why didn't you ring me." Did you have therapy? I said "YES". He said "Nice if you'd have let me know." I said "Yeah sorry, I forgot my cell phone." I THOUGHT THAT WOULD BE THAT.

Anyway it wasn't. I began to wash the dishes. My X was in Missy's room chatting to her. I heard them going on about a broken toy. So I went into the room and said "What is up, what's broken". My X said "What has it got to do with you." I said "Everything to do with me she is my daughter to, I have a right to know." He said "Mind your own business and shut the f* up with that attitude, I've had it with your bad attitude." I said "Its my house and I will ask about what I want in my house." He said "I've had enough, I'll take the rest of my stuff now." (He had a microwave and chip fryer stored at my house - in fact he said I could use the microwave until he moved in his new place). I said "Okay". He then said "You know your one ungrateful bitch, you after all these years I've given you a good home and how do you repay me with a f-ing attitude." I said "Since your not coming again, what about the £180 I lent you, will I be getting that back?" [I asked because usually he'd say NO, why should i give it back to you, I've done xxxxx for you all these years.] Anyway I'd rather ask and at least I'd know. He said "I've done xxxx for you and you want £180 back from me." I said "Well Yes, unless your gonna be swanning off with it." He then walked back into the kitchen and said "Do you know what hurts the most and makes me so angry is that you think after 7 years I'd rip you off, you don't think much of me, I've always paid my debts."

Then he left. The point is he doesn't pay his debts not in the way of paying back xxx pounds to me. He usually will say "You want xxx off me after all I've done for you." [No-one would think that I'd worked full time myself for the past 5 years and cleaned the house and looked after our child, and kept him when he changed jobs more regularly than the job centre.] He has contributed to our relationship BUT so did I!!! SO I think it pushed a button because he probably had no intention of paying back the money, just using his usual guilt trip.

WHAT DO YOU ALL THINK?

Though I did note this lunch time that maybe I was impolite not phoning to tell him I'd be late. Though what angers me is that if he decides to come later he won't tell me, I am gonna be in anyway after all. SO AS USUAL ITS ONE RULE FOR ME AND ONE FOR HIM!!

This is a toughie for me, being able to decide how I spend my time, and also not rushing MISSY when I pick her up, versus being there on time when he is gonna call to see MISSY. You see he comes Mon, Wed, Fri to see her at my house (school nights), and he takes her out on a Sunday away from my house. Though some nights MISSY is cranky and won't get ready so we end up late and then he ends up angry at me.

This was always the case when we lived together he couldn't understand that I would be late home, I mean how could a child make you late, I ask you!!! SO this is a big time button for me. WHERE I am just being unreasonable versus me jumping and making sure I am around without fail for him, when he calls to see MISSY.

How can I sort this out???

 

Love Theressa

 

B1: Submit
Date: Sunday, December 03, 2000

S1

Hi Theressa:

David here. Welcome back! I'm back from the UK and the weather cooperated roughly 50%. I had a wonderful time. Sorry we couldn't hook up. Chatting in the pub on a Saturday night was probably better than the Dickens play I saw with Simon Callow. The chap next to me fell asleep.

WHAT DO YOU ALL THINK? About what?

I've done a lot of thinking, reading, and listening to tapes. I've got a set of tapes that I would be happy to send you about the new brain/old brain dichotomy, which I guess is vaguely related to cognitive therapy. Not that vague. Cognitive therapy is about teaching the new brain to "govern," while taking the old brain into account. The normal way for a couple to interact whose marriage is on the skids or over for that matter is kind of like two kids in the school yard. Each comment gets subtly escalated until you are not communicating at all but just really yelling at each other based on your more emotional "old brain" and not really thinking about what you are doing. Exactly. Emotional, out-of-control behavior badly in need of impulse control and frontal lobe intervention.

One of the techniques I remember that takes the wind completely out of the sails of your arguing partner is just to agree with him/her. "Yes, you're right. That was incredibly careless of me to misplace my cell phone. How unfortunate for you that you had to sit in your car for 45 minutes." This really takes the fight out of him/her and they feel like a jerk for escalating the dialogue on you in the first place. Yes. This is why I repeatedly counsel people not to be defensive.

Email me your address (which I will keep confidential) and I will send you the tapes as I've listened to them several times already.

Cheers, David

 

B1: Submit
Date: Sunday, December 03, 2000

S1

Hi everyone (if anyone is still out there). We've been waiting for you.

I had a wonderful session in London with a Ms. Bollinger, a cognitive therapist resident in Montague Mansions, London. The taxi driver was pumping me for information. I revealed that I was a) on vacation and b) going to see a psychologist. His answer was that that was a strange way to be spending your vacation! But productive!

Ms. Bollinger recommended several books for me to read, which may or may not be on Dr. Irene's list (they probably are):

Coping with Depression by Paul Gilbert Don't know this one.

Staying Sane by Dr. Raj Persaud  Heard good stuff about this one. 

Love is Never Enough by Aaron T. Beck This one is excellent. Let us know what you think of them. 

Here is a short summary of what we did: After the book recommendations, she told me what you have to do to make cognitive therapy work. It must be consistent, you yourself must do the work, you are "training" yourself to think in a certain positive way which takes many repetitions to undo the training you have already given yourself which has led to where you are today, you have to "do" the books versus merely "reading" the books. Exactly. You are creating new automatic habits. At first you impose it upon yourself. Then, it starts "happening."

We did several of the exercises from the Feeling Good Handbook such as the "NAT" versus "RAT" exercise, whereby you write down your negative automatic thoughts on one side of the pages, along with a percentage of how much you believe it, versus a more rational alternative on the other side of the page, with a percentage of how much you believe that thought.

Ms. Bollinger urged me to read the ten forms of twisted thinking from the Feeling Good Handbook daily. I am supposed to make this my "Bible". Yes. Until it's automatically part of your thinking.

We then did the "vertical arrow" exercise whereby you write down something that changes your mood from good to bad. It can be something totally innocuous and it winds up with some deep bedrock foundation of your core beliefs that may shock you. Heheheh! The way you keep going down is by asking "why does that bother you" and you keep peeling layers off the onion. You might start off with "it really bothers me when he loads up the bird feeder and gets birdseed all over the patio" and wind up with "no one will love me if I am not a success" or something like that. Try it with your therapist and you might be surprised.

The reason that repetition is so important in cognitive therapy is that your automatic negative thoughts are usually believed 100% whereas the sane rational alternative is only lightly believed, if at all. So you have to repeat that positive, rational thought maybe 20 times every time you have the negative thought just to break even. And more! If you have a variation of that thought or have that thought with another person or in another context, you have to break the habit for each of those. Get the drift of why people give up too soon?

A colleague of mine whom I had dinner revealed to me that her sister was substantially cured of her obsessive-compulsive disorder by seeing a cognitive therapist and without resorting to drugs. Yes. 

If you want to track Ms. Bollinger down next time you are in London she can be sought out through the British Psychological Society, www.bps.org.uk. Thanks David.

I guess that's it from here. No real progress to report but no dramatic setbacks either. I'm still on Paxil. My wife has been nice to me lately and we are going out to lunch next week. The living arrangements and child care arrangements remain the same, however.

Love and Kisses, David

 

B1: Submit
Date: Monday, December 04, 2000

S1

Hi David,

Lynn here and I loved the post about the cognitive therapy and Ms. Bollinger. I need a crash course. Tough couple of weeks and not much fun. On the other hand, the good was great.

Sounds like your trip was so-so. I hear ya about the pub. If I stay awake much longer tonight, they'll be open again. Not that I'm really thinking of pup crawling at 7 AM. Not yet anyway. hehehe

Am going to go, but I just wanted to say hello and tell you hw good I think you are sounding.

Take care and Love and (((Hugs)) and all sorts of nice things,

Lynn

B1: Submit
Date: Friday, December 08, 2000

S1

Hi David,

You sound so in shape!!

Unlike me, I will send my address via e-mail to you the tapes would be great.

I wish I could feel so in shape like you, I am seeing how defensive I still am at times. And how I am acting out of my ego. You see it still angers me that my X doesn't see any value in what I do, but he does see value in the money he gives me and has given me.

I like the idea of just agreeing with him. THOUGH this doesn't help my anger at him for not helping with his daughter.

YOU see we can have productive talks. IN FACT he seems to be able to remain calm these days, he leaves and slams the door shut. OH goodness Dr Irene does this mean I am turning into an ABUSER. Nope. Just acting out awfully.

My therapist says NO problem the anger will subside. HOW???

My therapist doesn't have to live my life. He doesn't have to see how much I am hurting me and my daughter by my behaviors.

So goodness, NO wonder my daughter is playing up when her mom hasn't even got a handle on herself.

Do you know people keep on at me to get some self respect, sleep, eat etc, BUT for goodness sakes, DON'T they know I have too much to deal with already without more guilty about how I am not taking care of myself.

Sorry this is so negative but it is how I feel.

I keep hearing about being aware and recognizing the anger before the emotional display happens. BUT I DON'T even recognize the anger at times. I just blow.

Oh I am so fed up this growing is making me so FED UP!!!

Anyway have a good weekend.

Also sorry nearly finished. My therapist is on and on about me becoming self reliant, but he hasn't once mentioned helping me sort out my anger problem.

OH WELL MUST GO

Love Theressa

PS glad your doing well, you deserve it.

B1: Submit
Date: Thursday, December 14, 2000

S1

OMG - Why would David want to stay in a situation like this? Yes - the verbal abuse is not right, only causes more problems and make things worse. Why would you want to even think about staying with this woman who now has gone on to another man. As I understand, verbal abusers are people with little or no self-confidence. Staying in a situation like this is surely not going to help. You have a right to talk calmly to your wife and set boundaries of you own. The truth is you have been rejected - it hurts like hell - but do not humiliate yourself more by negative verbal behavior. I'm sorry for your pain. - Phoenix

B1: Submit
Date: Friday, December 15, 2000

S1

David, This is the first time I'm submitting a comment. I want you to know how sorry I feel for you. It's hard when you lose someone you love. I hope you have realized the pain you have caused your wife. At least she had the courage to get control of her life. I think what you are going through is normal i.e., being jealous and lonely. Try not to let these feelings overtake you. All you can do is take care of yourself and your children. Let your wife know how you feel about her, and let it at that. In God's timing he may bring her back, or bring someone else in your life, or fill your life with the joy of your children and friends. Hopefully, time will heal the pain.

Jean

B1: Submit
Date: Monday, December 18, 2000

S1

 

Hi Theressa,

[You sound so in shape!!]

Sounding in shape and BEING in shape are two different things. I've had plenty of bad days even lately, including meeting my wife and her boyfriend at the grocery store the other day. Can you guess whether or not I took the high road?  :(

[I will send my address via e-mail to you the tapes would be great.]

The tapes are on their way. I don't think they are a panacea, but they might give you some pointers on how not to make every encounter with your ex turn out into an angry shouting match.

[My therapist says NO problem the anger will subside. HOW???]

Do you have the Ellis books on anger management? Or the The Feeling Good Handbook? They all teach a cognitive therapy approach to getting anger under control. The problem is that you have to do the exercises in the book every day or it doesn't work. You can't just read the book and let it wash over you.

[Sorry this is so negative but it is how I feel.]

I feel negative a lot of the time as well.

[I keep hearing about being aware and recognizing the anger before the emotional display happens. BUT I DON'T even recognize the anger at times. I just blow.]

Recognizing and avoiding triggers is a big part of anger management. Pay attention. You'll get better at recognizing your anger as you practice noticing yourself.

Warm Regards, David

 

 

B1: Submit
Date: Monday, December 18, 2000

S1

Phoenix:

[Why would David want to stay in a situation like this?]

Because:

I still love her; I feel guilty for screwing up our marriage; I don't want another relationship; I want our family to live together again; I want redemption; I don't want to be obsessed by her memory for the rest of my life; I want an adult loving relationship; I don't want to have a string of meaningless relationships each one less committed than the last; and It's my decision!!

[Why would you want to even think about staying with this woman who now has gone on to another man.]

See above.

[As I understand, verbal abusers are people with little or no self-confidence.]

I've got self-confidence about a number of topics but not a lot of self-respect. You'll get that when running into them in the supermarket doesn't compromise your behavior.

[Staying in a situation like this is surely not going to help.]

I am not "in" a situation. I am "out" of a situation.

Thanks for your thoughts, David.

B1: Submit
Date: Monday, December 18, 2000

S1

Hi Jean:

Thanks for your lovely post.

David

B1: Submit
Date: Wednesday, December 20, 2000

S1

Hi David,

Thanks for sending the tapes.

Also thanks for your support I have ordered an anger management book Steve on the catbox recommended. I don't remember the authors name though.

I also realise I am angry a lot because of things I do that I could easily sort out, if I knew how? Yesterday my car went dead, so I got all angry. Missy (my daughter) started saying Mommy maybe you didn't put petrol in. (Of course I had petrol in) though the child was only trying to be helpful. I said "RIGHT OKAY leave me alone now cuz I am feeling angry at the car so please leave me I don't want to snap at you." She didn't leave me, she went on are you sure you didn't leave the petrol empty. I said "SHUT UP, just leave me alone." BUT mommy aren't you sure. I could feel by body boiling up. I said "I asked you leave me alone, so do it."

Then I rang my mom, I said "Mommy I can't get the car started. I need you to come and get MISSY." My mom said "How do you expect me to get there you bring her." I said "NO, I can't or for goodness sake I am gonna be late again." My mom said "That isn't my fault". I said "I never said it was, look I've had a F**king nuff" She said "Don't swear at me." (I wasn't swearing at her, I was just angry) I felt so annoyed and frustrated.

I decided to take Missy straight to school and see if the teacher would watch her until school started. Just then my mom rang me on my cell phone. "What are you doing, will you tell work your car is broken." I was feeling angry and tense. She was firing all these questions, the truth was I didn't know what I wasn't gonna do. Then she went on "Will you be getting a bus? which one? Will I be picking Missy up?" I said "Mom I have to go." (I felt so angry inside, I couldn't speak to her, I felt so frustrated). I said "I have to go bye".

Missy said "Is it my fault" I said "No but you could of got ready quicker and then we'd have had more time." (THIS WAS VERY BAD ME BLAMING A SIX YEAR OLD, AFTER ALL HOW IS SHE TO BLAME FOR THE CAR GOING DEAD!!)

David or Dr Irene how can we change our thought patterns such as these??

Thanks Theressa

(It is hard being honest but I guess its the only way I can recover)

B1: Submit
Date: Sunday, January 07, 2001

S1

David - how are you?

Come join us at "the catbox" if you feel like talking sometime.

Hope you're doing okay.

Asha

 

Back

B1: Submit
Date: Friday, December 14, 2001

S1

B1: Submit
Date: Monday, December 31, 2001

S1

Be your own friend, as well, and surround yourself with others. Strive to accurately assess both the steps you've still to take as well as those you've already taken. Get lots of information and support.

B1: Submit
Date: Thursday, April 25, 2002

S1

David; It's wonderful you want to get your wife back, BUT . . . changing for someone else is temporal. Please, please change for YOU ! ! !

B1: Submit
Date: Monday, December 09, 2002

S1

I just don't get the part about David may no longer want her back when he'll accomplish the tasks and know how much he can give. If his woman has lead a horrifying lifestyle lately and got another boyfriend, that might be her way of coping after not felt treated like a human being for years. All the frustrations and sadness and dissapointment and confusion and the god d*mn everlasting feeling of being treated so unfair she must have felt. Still, she gives him a chance. If he really recovers, and she'll want him back after all, I think she deserves a happy ending!!

B1: Submit
Date: Friday, February 14, 2003

S1

i have the title of a buddah and a guru and a yogi and i am just a kid of the age 15 but i understand the problems you are faceing!take one step back and look from her veiw and make sure you respect everyone in there views and you will do fine but never forget by keeping a angry face and personality you are punishing yourself!NEVER GIVE UP

B1: Submit
Date: Sunday, March 02, 2003

S1

Love and Light- To become a Buddah you must unite from within the mascline and femine energies of the self. Becoming the person that you love is not easy- When ever we go outside our selves for love, self acceptance or any thing else we leave our selves open to be hurt and also invite death into our emotional and spiritual forms. Every one has the potential of the buddah within them,But how many will walk the path and do the work ? Buddah consicousness and the imortality and liberation that it brings is a great prize and a great reward but it will involve a great price -Sexual relations as a means of joy and companionship is but a part of the price you will pay if you really desire to become a Buddah. Sex causes attachment to and through the emotional bodies of the people that we experience in a carnal manner- Thes attachments- or threads cause holes in our emotional bodies- We beg, cry hurt and curse the other person because we made the holes in our selves through sex and now we hurt deeply and we think that it will take that person to heal the hole and pain that was created. The Golden Buddah You can contac me at alferi@att.net if you like.

B1: Submit
Date: Monday, May 19, 2003

S1

David, I wish you the best in your search for happiness with a partner. I would recommend "giving up" on this lady for a while. Focus on your own healing, on getting to know the things in this world that fill you and make you whole and happy, whether it be music, art, community service, church, children, whatever. Someday things may pick up again with your wife, or they may not. Either way, when you decide to enter a relationship again, whether it be with her or with someone else, you will be coming into it as a whole and complete person, with lots of love to give, yet not dependent on another person to fill up your reservoirs of self-love. Best wishes, David.

B1: Submit
Date: Monday, May 19, 2003

S1

Keep working at being the bigger person in any situation in which you feel it would be easier to verbally abuse. Notice how well you are treated when you are the bigger person. Slow down your thoughts and emotions...take time to choose your words. Develop a mantra so you may use it in times of difficulty. Something I used: "compassion, loving kindness." I would say it over and over in my head until my actions simply followed. Now it is automatic. Just a note: I have experienced being both the abuser and the victim in my 33 years of life. The Road Less Traveled by Scott Peck was the impetus for my change. Check it out and keep working...the rewards are HUGE!