Material posted here is intended for educational purposes only, and must not be considered a substitute for informed advice from
your own health care provider.

Courtesy of Dr. Irene Matiatos Copyright© 2000. The material on this website may be distributed freely for non-commercial or educational purposes provided that author credit is given. For commercial distribution, please contact the author at Doc@drirene.com

Date: Monday, May 15, 2000

S1

He can't see things from any ones perspective other than his own. He doesn't want a wife...he wants a slave...he wants to be catered to. And host pity parties for himself. YUCK......YUCK....YUCK...... Being married to him sounds like being an indentured servant.... makes me want to run away from him....and I don't even know him. He is a control freak with a bad temper. Geez Jake....wake up... get real. I seriously doubt you would want to be treated the way you are treating your wife. With you ....everything is about mememememe. Selfish controlling men with bad tempers are not desirable Jake.

Date: Monday, May 15, 2000

S1

You are telling me that I have to accept my wife's behaviour or leave her, because if I do not, then I am a controlling husband. Your are pro divorce, there is no question about it. I am not trying to control my wife's behaviour, but our marriage. Our marriage is going to survive or not, depending upon we change the things we do that hurts each other. If I do things that hurts her, I have to change does things and If she does things that hurts me, she have to change does things as well. Now, how do I let her know what are those things that hurts me? I have tried several ways, and I know I have had tried in some wrong ways. I know I have anger management problem, which I have worked to improve myself, and I have had major improvements. I do not explode as often as I have done in the past. I have controlled myself on this, but I am a human being, so there are times when I get out of control, but they are less and less frequent than ever before. She has even recognized that.

So losing control is the same as being a controlling spouse? No, I do not think so. I have even apologized after I have lost control on myself. I do not want a divorce, I want to keep my family together. Is that controlling? I bet you will say yes. I do not think trying to keep my family together is controlling. I do want to control, with her help, both of us, where our marriage should go and work. How do I do that? By telling her what are the things that hurts me, for instance. Have she changed her behavior on everything? No. But that is ok, with me. I know I do not owe the truth. But when she had not changed on something that I would like her to change or control on herself, showing some improvements, I tell her about it. What do I want? First, that she listen to me, then that she make the changes that need to be changed. But If she does not make the changes, then it is ok with me, as long as I have been listened to. If we listen to our spouse's feelings, there will be hope that changes will be made in the future. Why will I want to do something that hurts my wife? I do not and I bet she does not. So I do not think that by telling her my feelings, I am a controlling husband. I just want to be listen to, in the first place. Secondly, I am not telling her my feelings every time she hurts me, since I first try to see why they hurts me. But if it is a major issue, which it comes to that after time, then I let her know.

The problem here is that every time I want to tell my wife the things that hurts me, she brings 1,000 of issues to our discussion, and our talk becomes about the 1,000 other issues that she brings out. Was I listened to? No. Then my anger problem management shows up. What went wrong? Her 1,000 issues that she did not get resolved by talking about them one at a time, and forgiving when it was necessarily, and my anger problem management. Basically, we have communication problem. I have told her over and over again, that I have no problem on talking about her feelings one at a time, but she does not do that on time. She waits until there are so many to bring them up when I am talking about my feelings.

What do I do? I stopped talking about my feelings, and because she does too, we grew apart. Then after a while, she gets fed up I leave. Get the picture. I do not want to divorce, I married her forever, not until one of us gets fed up. I have tried several times to work on our communication problem, and I know she has too, but we have not been successful. Working on our communication problem is not controlling. Telling her about my feelings no matter how many times I tell her is not controlling. I just want to be listened to, in the first place, and that is not controlling.

Another thing, in my 5th paragraph I used the word "let", and I knew you would tell me what you told me. I used the word "let" in the sense of not telling to my wife that her coming back home late hurts me, because I will try to wait until she realizes her behavior was wrong. But they became more often than normal, so I brought that up, but as usual, she brought 1,000 other issues, and the cycle begins.

Finally, you tell me that "Divorce is about the last thing people in our crazy, high-divorce rate society needs". Do we let our crazy society needs influence us or do we influence our crazy society needs. I am sorry to telling this, but your influencing people to divorce, since they have to accept or leave, and that it is wrong. Have you thought about telling people to have patience and encourage them to try to find ways to improve whatever it has to be improved like the communication problem most marriages have. I have not yet saw any of your advices toward that direction.

Maybe there are situations that are extreme, but most of the time the people who comes here wants to hear from someone that their spouse is a controlling, mean, bad, horrible spouse, so they have the encouragement to divorce. Are you that person they want to hear from?

Lover, Jake.

Date: Monday, May 15, 2000

S1

The first post says that "He can't see things from any ones perspective other than his own. He doesn't want a wife...he wants a slave...he wants to be catered to." I can tell that person has been in a bad marriage, and think that all men are the same, just as my mother in law. I have compassion for those person.

But first of all, I am a husband, a man, and not at fault for been one. I can see other peoples perspective, or at least I try. I have tried to see my wife's perspective, and some times I understand her and some times I do not. I have told her to keep telling me her perspective, but one at a time. Lets resolve our issues one at time. But she keeps bringing 1,000 of issues to the discussion table, and close to none gets resolved.

Do I want a slave? Do I wants to be catered to? No at all. I feel sorry for the person who commented that. He/she most likely has lots of anger. I want my wife, I love my wife as well as my family. I am committed to them. I will do whatever it is needed. I found out through this relationship, that happiness is giving more that receiving. I have given all the energy I have to this marriage, more energy I thought I would ever have, and I know I still have energy left to keep giving.

I have been told by my mother and my aunt that she does not deserve me, and they are the same people who told me I have things to change 3 years ago, and keep working my marriage. Why have they changed their mind? Because they have seen my improvements and that I have matured. My desire to keep my family together has been the force behind my desire to become a better person. But where do I hear that wife's have to change and to mature too. Not in here, obviously.

I feel sorry for badly treated wives, but we all have to improve yourself, not just men, and no, not all men are the same. For instance, I would think hundreds of times before I cheated to my wife, and I have not cheated, and I do not think I would ever do. But If I come home late, I most have been doing something bad since I am a man, but if she comes home late, it is ok since she is a good woman. Get the picture. For you badly treated wives, all men are the same, and influences other wives, who are married to good husbands. I try to treat my wife the same as I would like my father to treat my mother, and my sister's husband to treat my sisters.

But no matter what, I am not listen to anyone who will advice me on divorce. I am committed to my wife, and I want to love her like Christ love his Church. Then accept her Jake. After all, Christ did not like all the stuff God asked of him, but he accepted it - and did so with grace.

Date: Monday, May 15, 2000

S1

Jake, Take off the blinders and get some help. You could benefit from speaking to a professional therapist that is knowledgeable in abuse and control issues. Fix yourself. Don't try to fix others, it is not possible and it is totally controlling. Look deep within your own self, never using the words "she makes me feel" or "she caused this pain". Use only yourself and your life experiences to define your reality and then accept that it is just that: Your Reality! best of luck

Date: Monday, May 15, 2000

S1

My response to Jake is that he should read....and so should his wife.....the Patricia Evans book The Verbally Abusive Relationship on verbal abuse. It will enlighten both of them. Control/Anger is both overt (direct) and covert (indirect). I agree that he can't see beyond his nose at this time. Anger has a way of not allowing a person to be empathetic or open to constructive criticism. Jake doesn't seem to be either. He seems to be in denial about the whole thing and is focusing on himself only. He seems more worried about being the "bad guy" and what is wrong with Dr. Irene's advise on marriage. I hope he wakes up soon.

Date: Monday, May 15, 2000

S1

Look at it this way Jake. You tried it "your way", and it didn't work. You are separated and no signs of reconciliation. Why don't you try something new? Try taking Dr. Irene's advice, and reading Patricia Evans as recommended, and finding a therapist who knows about verbal abuse. You have nothing to loose because you are already loosing your wife the way things are going. Evan if you don't get your wife back, have you thought that maybe God is sending you a lesson to learn?

Date: Monday, May 15, 2000

S1

Dear Jake,

I think the others are coming down on you too hard. It seems to me that your question 'am I abusive?' is sincere, and it takes guts to ask it. Of course you don't want to be labeled as 'the bad guy'. Who does? And saying 'she made me feel', or 'I let her go out' is not necessarily an indication that you are abusive or controlling. I believe that Patricia Evans identifies the essential difference between abusers and non-abusers as being the abusers' basic agenda, which is to put themselves in the 'one up' position. That is, their aim is not to communicate with the other person, but to 'prove' that they are better and more powerful. I don't see that in what you've written. You may be controlling and you may act or have acted in abusive ways, but if you are willing to recognize that and to change your behavior then you are by no means a bad guy, and I think you should be commended for coming this far. (I also believe that we ALL act abusively and are 'controlling' from time to time. If you go looking for abusiveness in any one person I think you are guaranteed to find it!)

As far as your views on divorce are concerned, I agree with you. However, I haven't read anything so far to indicate that Dr. Irene is pushing anyone to get divorced who shouldn't. But I do think that there are women go overboard in identifying men's behavior as 'controlling'.

For help in keeping your marriage together, I highly recommend 'Divorce Busting' by Michele Weiner-Davis.

Good luck. I wish that my ex-husband were able to ask these kinds of questions of himself.

Date: Monday, May 15, 2000

S1

Jake, the only way you're going to save your marriage is to stick real tight to Dr Irene's advice. If I were you, I would seriously consider paying her for email responses to you. You desperately need a therapist who understands abusers and their victims.

Yes, you are an abusive controlling person. It is SO OBVIOUS to everyone but you! This site is NOT about divorce. Either you (1) haven't read all the content on this site where Dr Irene clearly tries to keep couples together, or (2) you have filtered out the positive and have chosen to focus on divorce. I think you're focusing on the divorce issue because it is your way of discounting the information on this site. What you're saying about this site isn't true, but that's what you'll tell everyone about this site, isn't it? That this site is only about divorce, right? That's what you'll say because you are in denial regarding your behavior. That will be your reason to discount all the information on this site, because it's all about divorce, you say.

Using the divorce issue is also a clever sidetrack that takes away the focus from you and your behaviors.

Your mother-in-law is not ruining your marriage. She doesn't control your wife. That's bull. You sound exactly like my abusive brother who, for over 30 yrs has said I spoke to all the women he ever dated, and convinced them to leave him. I was living in a different state over 13 hrs away by car! Most of the time I didn't even know who he was dating! And when I did talk to his girlfriends, it was because they searched me out, trying to find answers for why he so controlling/abusive. They left him because they couldn't live with his abuse! Your wife has turned to her mother for love and support because she's not getting it from you.

Bottom line: if your wife does divorce you, you will blame it on your mother-in-law, and on sites like this that "encourage people to divorce." You will blame others for the divorce, but not yourself.

No, Jake, you don't get it. You are very defensive. Please let Dr Irene help you, PLEASE!

Date: Monday, May 15, 2000

S1

Jake....

You don't want people to advise divorce, because you know that women who are abused NEED TO HEAR THAT and what you are saying is also considered a control factor because you want to isolate what she (and other wives) can read by not getting advise like that! Are AFRAID your wife will get advice like that and do it? My answer to that is YES!!!! Please don't use God's wrath as a scare tactic. God loves those who love him unconditionally, even when we go against his commandments. Nothing will separate us from Him. Even divorce! You think in your head that divorce is wrong no matter what....Well guess what? You have already sinned against your wife in the worst way by not loving and treating your wife as God loves the "church"! God hateth the man who bringeth violence (ANY KIND) upon his wife! Remember....there are a million excuses for abuse, but not one good reason! You ARE a controlling, manipulative, two-year old that needs to grow up. It's time for your wife to "sour the milk", and she is trying to! You feed off of her, and when she removes the source of your food (her) by not being there, you are not satisfied until she returns! The reason your wife comes home at 10:00 pm is because she doesn't wanna spend any time (who does!!) with a verbal and controlling man who is supposed to love her! Sheesh...this is why I come home late! I do commend you for coming on here and telling your story, explaining how you feel...but geez for once SAY IT! You do not own her. You cannot subject her to continuous ultimatums or limit her time because of your preconceived reasoning which ONLY MAKES SENSE TO YOU.

CAN YOU SAY THIS:

"I AM A CONTROLLING AND VERBALLY ABUSIVE HUSBAND AND I CHOOSE FROM THIS DAY TO NOT DO THIS ANYMORE! I NEED HELP AND NOW!!!"

There.....if you said it, now let your words mimic your actions. Tell your WIFE what she really needs to hear! The above. Tell her you will MOVE OUT while getting treatment. She deserves to come home any time...and home should always be the safest and most peaceful place to be. Turn the tables....what if she treated you like that. REALLY REALLY THINK ABOUT IT. You are in "male privilege" mode. Me thinks you need to hit rock bottom before you will really ever realize how much you need to change your HEART. You can't do this without tears. You must feel remorse for the hurt you have caused her, and apologize for it, admit it, then get help and work hard to stop it.

It's ABUSE. Verbal and emotional is worse than physical. You are robbing her of her rights as a human being. No person on earth should have that kind of power.

Your problem is admitting to yourself that you are the problem.

Dr. Irene is an expert, has earned her way to giving the advice that she does. She can advise divorce....but because she has does not means she is responsible for whether or not the couple does that. We all still have our own free will and make our own choices. Each of us in our own right are accountable to God. Search your heart Jake...that's the part God is looking at and living in. I hope you make the right choice.

Caged Snowbird

Date: Monday, May 15, 2000

S1

I have found out, by the post I get here, that there are so many experts in the field. It is hard for me to believe there are so many conclusions and advises about my life, my wife and my marriage. I am a science person, with strong logical thinking and I know life should not be analyzed with the logic that science needs. But I am right here wondering how many people jump ahead to say things without knowing all the facts.

There are so many badly treated woman out there I feel sorry for. There is a post by a sister about how she influence her brother's girlfriends. I feel sorry for her brother, even if he is a bad person, as her sister says, for having a sister like that. I would never ever get involved in any of my sisters/brothers relationships and marriages. The only advice I would give to any of my sisters-in-law is that she should get professional help. But do I have the right to get involved in any of their life, giving advices as if I know better? I do not think so.

I know I do not own my wife, I never thought of her as my property. How and when did I give that impression? I do not think I am a controlling person, I have tried to be very careful about not being one. Yes, I feel badly about hurting my wife by not giving her the love I should have given her, but there are problems I have not even talked about. But bottom line: yes, I have not been the loving person I should have been. I am asking God for forgiveness, because I let him down. I could write many paragraphs about why I have not been the loving husband I should have been, but they will be excuses. I know. So won't even try, at least not for now.

But I am wondering, If I were not a husband, but a wife, would I have given the same advice and comments I have. I would do an experiment, one of these days on another site, pretending to be a woman who has lived a life with a man who I will pretend is my wife, to prove how many people jumps to conclusions just because the husband should have been responsible for his broken marriage. Wives are never responsible. I have heard so many times what I should have done or should have not done, and they might be right, but my point here is that all the post I received here is about how husbands are at fault. I will let you know about the result of my experiment.

Date: Monday, May 15, 2000

S1

Jake:

I have read your messages and all the replies posted thus far. I think it would be easy for people to conclude that you are abusive simply because Dr. Irene says so. I tried to set that information aside and re-read your messages while ignoring the comments and replies in order to "hear" your side of the story without being biased. Unfortunately, I still come to the conclusion that you are very likely abusive. Here are a few of my reasons: 1--You talk a lot about how you want your wife to understand how you feel. You give little mention of being concerned about how SHE feels. You say that she won't bring up how she feels until you want to talk about your feelings, and when she does, she raises 1000 issues at once. Have you ever sat down with her and asked her about her feelings WITHOUT immediately raising how YOU feel? Have you listened attentively to her concerns, fears, doubts, frustrations WITHOUT turning the conversation around into being about YOU and/or defending yourself? Have you ensured that SHE feels heard? You are right in that you both need to develop better communication skills, but don't expect HER to be the only one to change. 2--You clearly have some very specific ideas on how a marriage is "supposed" to work. That is OK. However, your wife might have a different idea of what marriage is supposed to be like. Have you ASKED her what she wants from the marriage? I get the impression that you have only TOLD her what you think it is supposed to be like. You also seem to be invoking some religious dogma on what the marriage is supposed to be like. Please don't try to use religious guilt to convince your wife that she should behave in a particular way. Don't accuse, don't lecture, don't mandate, don't whine. You chose to marry her for herself. Let her BE herself. Don't tell her what she is supposed to be like. That isn't your job. 3--You sound like you are uncomfortable with how much time your wife spends with her mother or with her friends. Maybe she is spending too much time away from home, but if she doesn't find home a pleasant place to be, then she will continue to do this. It is common for abusers to feel that their victims spend too much time with other people and are being influenced into bad decisions or bad attitudes by these "outsiders". Wrong. Your wife is a grown-up and is capable of forming her own opinions. She is spending time around the people who validate the feelings and opinions she already has. It should be a clear message to you that she doesn't feel valued or heard by you if she is avoiding spending time with you. If she felt valued by you she would seek to spend time with you.

Jake--I could go on and on. The bottom line is that I get the distinct impression that you are not doing your part to help your wife feel emotionally safe to be with you. Lecturing her and accusing her of being wrong or inadequate is a poor way to ensure that she feels safe or eager to share her life with you. There is no point in your telling us how or why SHE has made you unhappy. She does not control your happiness. You control your happiness. If you are really committed to a happy marriage then you will find yourself a therapist and work hard at changing YOURSELF into a happy and loving person that your wife will WANT to be around. After your therapist tells you that you are ready, and if your wife is willing, then you may want to consider marriage counseling or couples' therapy. However, couples' therapy is not going to do either of you any good until BOTH of you feel safe to talk about the relationship in front of each other. I am willing to bet that your wife won't feel safe doing that until YOU have changed yourself into a person who can listen to her without attacking, criticizing, or blaming her.

Date: Monday, May 15, 2000

S1

Jake, you didn't understand my post. I NEVER told my brother's girlfriends to leave him! I said I lived 13 hrs away, and never even knew the names of the women he dated! How could I talk to someone I didn't even know??!!! This is what he ACCUSED ME of doing----something I never did. He had to blame someone for his all of his failed relationships, and he chose to accuse me of something that I didn't even do. AFTER some of his girlfriends left, they contacted me because they were hurt and confused by my brother. They had already left! All I could do was listen. I never got involved in his relationships!

YOU NEED HELP! FIND A THERAPIST SKILLED IN THIS FIELD. You don't "hear" and "confuse" what we are saying in replies to you.

Date: Monday, May 15, 2000

S1

Dear Jake...

You are a stinking, lower than dirt, piece of "Sh*t, a cowardly, manipulative, control seeking , selfish, SON OF A BI*CH! Oh, and make sure YOU are at home by 8:00 PM as you don't deserve to have fun with friends after you are married (in other words, you are my property)! Don't call your family, especially more than once a day, as you now only need me and my advice and company (in other words, I have the right to isolate you). I don't wanna hear your 1,000 of excuses (because then you don't hear mine).

ARROW DOWN.......

KEEP GOING.......

STILL A BIT MORE......

Okay...I apologize......I know that was not a nice thing to do at all (see...I admit when I am wrong, but the thing here is to NEVER let language like that out of your chops in the first place!)....but I did so here just as a lesson....Now.....maybe you know (a tiny bit) about how it feels to be verbally abused. It doesn't leave you feeling all warm and fuzzy does it? But to get the entire picture.....picture yourself in this day in and day out for years and years. Makes you wanna throw up, huh?

Now Jake...go do something about it. You need more than web advice and books to read....you need therapy.

But don't do it to expect everyone to hug and embrace you. Do it for YOU. The rest will come unexpectedly and in good time. The only expectations you should have are of YOURSELF.

Date: Monday, May 15, 2000

S1

You're playing games now, with your "experiment." There are cases on Dr Irene's site of women abusing men. Everyone was just as supportive of the abused men. This site is about people, not taking the woman's side in every case.

We all know you are not happy right now. We are trying to help you. You are more interested in proving you are right, than you are in helping yourself. You are choosing to waste your energy on "experiments." Even if you think Dr Irene is wrong about you, what harm would it do spend your energy reading some cognitive therapy books, or books about anger, or about self-esteem? Or use your energy to find a good therapist, if you're not already in counseling? We all wish you success.

Date: Monday, May 15, 2000

S1

Okay, I have read the post and all the replies. I find Jake to be very defensive. I also find that he minimizes his own bad behavior, while he maximizes everyone else's.

Jake, you like to play the blame game. However you are completely clueless that when you point a finger at someone else, there are three fingers pointing back at you.

Your wife told you why she left you...but you still don't get it. I find from reading your responses to others posts that talking to you is like talking to the wall. I find with you, that if you don't like the message.....you think there is something wrong with the messenger and you attack them.

But you're a wonderful husband....so wonderful in fact, that your mean wife up and left you. After all, you hardly rage anymore...and you do apologize for it. Give me a break. Raging at your spouse is not okay....and the words I'm sorry......don't cut it....it's nothing but lip service...cause you will be raging again. You don't want to change your ways......what you really want are things done your way.

You don't realize that by your actions and your words you told your wife ........it's my way or the highway. Oh well,...she took the highway. That's what happens in life to people who are selfish ....eventually others get fed up and lose their numbers real fast.

You also fail to realize that just because you don't want a divorce doesn't mean your wife doesn't. But then again it's only all about what Jake wants. And I also find it very interesting how you used answering to God to threaten Dr. Irene...woe... you have some nerve doing that..... you were dead wrong to pull that crap. You are very transparent... but you carry on as if you are cloaked.

Date: Monday, May 15, 2000

S1

I don't know why I'm even bothering to post this, I doubt it will make a difference. I do want to give my opinion on Dr. Irene's advice, though. First of all, she ENCOURAGES divorce? I, frankly, feel that sometimes she tries a little too hard to keep couples together in what are most likely hopeless situations (and I personally feel that the vast majority of abusive relationships are hopeless situations.) Yet you feel she encourages divorce? Well, I guess we just have a different perspective. That's funny, since Dr. Irene loves to hear stories about recovering abusers and couples that have made it (or are in the process, like me). Dr. Irene doesn't want you and your wife to divorce - she wants you to get better! However, she understands that if you choose not to get better, as you are doing now, that there is little hope for your relationship. She can't make your wife come back to you, and neither can you.

Most abusers take this as a wake-up call and at least admit to being abusive - you never do. All you do is spend your time defending. You're textbook! Reminds me a little of my abuser back in extreme denial phase. We almost broke up - now we're working things out and pretty happy most of the time! He's happier too, because he's in touch with his feelings, and he's not hurting me all the time. What do you have to lose by admitting your abuse and starting to get help? Since you're religious, why don't you "Let go and let God?" You can be a happy man, you can have healthy relationships, but you've got a long way to go first. Secondly, it sounds like your wife has very healthy boundaries; she realized that you weren't going to change (at this point) and did what she needed to do for her.

Good luck, Jake, I'd like to see you be one of the success stories. However, you've gotta lose the defensive attitude here - if you wrote to Dr. Irene asking for help, why don't you take her advice? Or were you just looking for someone to validate your "I'm not controlling/abusive" mindset? Oops, I guess you came to the wrong place...abusive behavior won't get validated here! Love, SatokoGirl, liberal feminazi pro-divorce man-hating anti-family lesbian... (hey, aren't we all, girls? Funny how abusive types like to label anyone who doesn't agree with them "man-haters"...I guess my boyfriend, whom I love, is really a woman!)

Date: Monday, May 15, 2000

S1

Excellent discussion. Jake, "Dr. I." speaks the truth. If you don't like what you hear, if it's not "Jake centered" (all abut Jake, all the time!), then you won't HEAR it! Sounds like you never got unconditional love in your childhood, that's why you have to be so self-centered. If your wife gives it, you don't know how to deal with it. Get therapy on that. (Is that what you mean about what a marriage is "supposed" to be? Well, then, why don't you have the God-given obligation to give that to HER?) Ask your wife about those 1000 issues - (Gosh, a thousand is simply impossible to even try to start, so better not even begin on what SHE wants to discuss, just stick with YOU and what you expect, demand, and threaten in the name of marriage and God.)

You're stuck in that loop- Oh, it's too big so let's just forget it and continue as we have been. It's what Jake EXPECTS in a marriage that's important, not what measures might work between just him and just his wife. Stop worrying about what "others" think about your marriage, because that's just an excuse NOT to do the hard work and figure out What and How to change in yourself. You cannot change OTHER people. You really know that deep inside. You can only change your own behaviors. You sound like a capable, intelligent fellow, so you can (and I believe you MUST) change your own behavior. Otherwise, you'll always be unhappy, but of course the certainty of misery is better than the misery of uncertainty.

Date: Monday, May 15, 2000

S1

Hi Jake:

I am on the flip side of the equation and I want to tell you a couple of things that I related to. My husband was also very controlling. He would come home from work and instead of talking to me as a partner, making me laugh a little, working as a team - he would complain about what was not done, accuse me of not being a good mother or a supportive spouse, he took his bad moods out on me making everything somehow my fault. It didn't take long for me to go in the opposite direction of him, cringing when his truck pulled up at the end of the day. He hurt me so much treating me as a possession or the second mate that I went to the comfort of my sisters for conversation. I left the house alone and went anywhere where he was not. I just could not be a part of someone who hurt me or brought me down so much. I was not a wife...and equal. I was his fall guy, his verbal punching bag, his puppet?!

Why would I want to be with someone like this? I was better off being alone. And because I needed the compassion of my sisters, he saw this as a threat. He resented my family, saying that they butted in. But you want to know the truth? All I wanted was a husband who loved me, talked to me civilly, let me be my own person, someone I could enjoy seeing at the end of the day. That is all I wanted. He did not see that for many years, and because of it I went to other people for things (compassion, conversation, joking etc.) that he should have been giving me all along.

So, why don't you try for a little while to think, "How do I really treat my wife". Be honest. Is your relationship something that is equal and fulfilling, each being respectful and polite? Why don't you try that approach for a while. If you treat her this way, I can almost guarantee you that she will not need to speak to her mother as she does now. She probably wants a husband that will treat her the way a husband should treat her. I say this from experience because we did make that very change and now things are very good. Very good. I no longer have to cry to my sisters everyday and you know what? I am happy to see his truck pull up in the driveway at night. Good luck to you. I do wish you can see how important your end of the deal is. Try changing the way you are and you just might be happy with the changes she makes. God Bless! Karen

Date: Monday, May 15, 2000

S1

Here I am again, thinking, wow, how many responses in such a short time. First of all, I have to give something back to you all. I thank you for all of your responses, even from those badly treated women who think that that all men are the same.

I am a Latin person, as my wife is, but I lived in the USA for 7 years, so I understand the American life style and it's strong belief in family. We are both Latin living in Mexico. We have a maid; they do not cost much, so we do not have problem as in the USA, where couples must share chores. The maid basically does everything in the house. Moreover, I like to cook, and I told my wife when we were dating that she did not need to cook. She never did. But I would have loved to have dinner made by my wife, I might have asked her once or twice, but it would have been nice.

I had a business for 5 years and last year I had to close it. It was very difficult for me to handle and I was depressed because of it. Was I given support by my wife? No. I could not be a loving husband because of the stress. I did not know how to handle stress, and maybe she did not either. But added to our communication problem, there was not much to do to save my marriage. I had to support my family and I was failing at that. I was not happy, I was depressed. How can anyone tell me to be a loving husband in such a situation? I am not asking her to be a loving wife either, I am asking her to understand.

About one of the posts:

1. Granted. I did not listen to my wife, I did not know what she expected from me, I did not know what I expected from her either. I always thought that listening was about giving advice, but then I learned that it is about shutting up your mouth. 2. I am not trying to use religious guilt to manipulate her. I have never raised that to her. It is only in my mind, which I share with you. I believe in God and believe marriage is forever. I feel guilt, and I have not pointed that to her. It is my guilt due to my religious beliefs. 3. Yes, I am uncomfortable because of how much time she spends with her mother on the phone, from day 1. Yes from day one. So this is not a recent issue, It has always been like that. I have told her that I feel bad about it, but few changes has been made. I married her to live and share a life with her for God sake, I did not marry her mother. Jake: When you marry a person, you also marry their family... Right or wrong... But, now I understand more of the difficulty you and I are having. There is a cultural difference. Your culture makes her going out late less acceptable and your own backing down more difficult than by American standards. Still...

I have a question for you: Do you think your wife may have changed her tune over time had you been more accepting of her close relationship with her mom? Had you not set yourself up in a role competing with her mother?

Another post:

About the Sh*t and SON OF A BI*CH! comments, no I did not do that. That kind of conversation did not take place. I am not like that. All I said was that I did not think that her behaviour was lady like and that I do not like her to be out in the street so late. She thought I was calling her a bi*ch, but I did not.

How many of you thought that that kind of discussion took place? I didn't. I just thought the writer was being facetious to emphasize a point. See what I mean. You people think that I treated my wife like that, and I did not. I told her bad things but not like that. I told her how many things I did for her and how little things she did for me. That is bad since I did not do them for her to be thankful, but because I was happy doing in them. That is bad because I do not want to remind her of the things I do. But I wanted her to put them in the balance, so she can see her life has not been as bad as she think it is. She told me was that I gave her a gold cup to spit blood in it. I felt so badly, since I gave her everything I could; I wanted her to be happy, and because of the way she is, she is not. She told me was how much she resents telling me that.

I can understand many of your point of views, but my point is not about saving my marriage and getting my wife back, even thought I would like that very much, but about people giving advice on divorce. I do not think I would ever be able to save my marriage since I have lot of resentments against my wife and so does she. I know there are many things I have to work on, and I am. But she will never be able to understand what she has to work on, since she is validating her feelings with her mother. Is she a grown woman?

Let me tell you people that she is not. She might be a physically grown woman, but mentally she is not, since her mother does not let her. Whenever there is a problem she goes to her mother to help her solve it. Her mother manipulates her quite well. I may tell you different stories about it, but I am quite sure of that. Moreover, my wife is doing the same thing to my kids. I see my kids less grown for their age than many other kids. My 5 year son drinks milk in a bottle, for God's sake. Ugh.

So please listen to me you all: I am a husband willing to make a difference, and I do accept that I have been controlling, but so has she. The problem here is that she listen to advice about leaving me that she became convinced about. So she did. And That is wrong. I am willing to keep maturing and grow for the better. I am doing it. I am reading books, and reading on line as well. But I am feeling that I can not live with a person who is going to be talking to someone (her mother), who is going to be judging me all the time. I did not marry her mother for God's sake. I want my wife to tell me how she feels; I will shut up. But my mistakes are always going to be judged very strongly. It is the same for me to make a little mistake and a big mistake; they are always going to be judged as if they were huge mistakes. See my point. Jake, I see your point. You are not right or wrong. Life is what it is. People are who they are, right or wrong. Here are your choices: Accept who she is and love her, or let her go, which, apparently you have chosen to do. But, you are not being entirely honest. Had you been, you would have said what you said now off the bat. You didn't. You started out with some issue about being mad at people who recommend divorce, and proceeded to put words into my mouth to that end. Check it out Jake.

Date: Monday, May 15, 2000

S1

Karen:

Your post makes a lot of sense to me. I truly thank you for your compassion and understanding. I do relate to your husband, and his mistakes are quite like the ones I made. However, it is to late for us now. I will always be pointed by the accusing fingers and her mother will always remind her of my mistakes. I lost her for good. Now I have to learned to live a life visiting my children every other weekend and I will not be able to be involved in their every day growing up. I will keep working on me and ask God to bring me a good woman I can make happy and have a new family with. I will not make the same mistake again.

Thank you Karen, I understand what you say without feeling I am such a terrible person, because I am not. I can not believe I am a monster when I have such a wonderful feelings toward my wife. But your post has made me see my mistake. God bless you. You are not a monster. You are a very imperfect and very human being, as we all are... And God bless you too...

Date: Monday, May 15, 2000

S1

Dear Jake,

I am surprised that your and your wife did not try any marriage counseling. It would be interesting to hear what someone thinks who is neutral rather than what her mother or you think. I know from personal experience that an abusive mother and daughter defend each others actions and see the other side as automatically wrong. It’s obvious that her mother has considerable influence and it is possible your wife used her as an escape to avoid dealing with the situation herself. I see something very familiar here in the lines about how she starts something with you which leads to you defending yourself and then she brings up other things about you which have nothing to do with what either of you started with, which then escalates out of control.

When she brought up the 1000 other things, you were wrong to go along with it and not stick to the main subject. Correct me if I am wrong, but your wife seems like the kind of person who must always be “right” no matter what and have the last word no matter what. That’s abusive and controlling too. It causes anger that can explode in utter frustration because it is relentless and everyone has their breaking point. The constant countering by both of you leads to seemingly endless arguments that only hurt everyone and solves nothing. I have tried to live with that kind of person for many years and am ready to give it up.

Your wife is part of the problem too and can not change unless she realizes that she has a problem and works herself to correct it. (That applies to you although you have at least made a start.) That will not happen while she is under the influence of the person who probably made her that way to begin with. Unless she agrees to individual therapy and or couples therapy along with you, you both are at a stalemate and your only answer is divorce - for your sake. At least you will be the better and happier person in the long run, assuming you get a handle on your problems through professional counseling. In the end you will move on and will find someone better who is not so self centered and can listen to others.

I am surprised that in all the books recommended in Dr. Irene's pages that no has suggested that old stand by of good speaking communication, “How To Win Friends and Influence Others” by none other than Dale Carnegie. I recommend it along with the others. Yes, a wonderful book. Among the first of its kind...

A Friend

Date: Monday, May 15, 2000

S1

Jake, There are times that we have the right to be angry. It is the way in which we deal with our anger which makes the difference. You say your wife is out late and more often. I am guilty of the same thing. Why did I do it? Because I was tired of the innuendo that I was not good enough for him. I "needed" to do so many things, and he needed to sit on his butt & watch TV. I "should (not) have done" whatever he seemed to think it was. I was tired of being called names all the time. So I found reasons to be gone more.

However, I was not only a victim of verbal and emotional abuse - I was also a victim of physical abuse. Hence, I had a stronger reason to want to stay away. My suggestion to you right now is - listen:. If she wants her space - give it. If she feels like talking - she will contact you. I don't believe in divorce either - yet I am needing to get one because the man who promised to love me, doesn't understand the true definition of love.

So answer the question for yourself. What does loving someone mean? If you find the answer is that she should be subservient - or a "behind the scenes" person - let her go. You would not be fair to her or yourself if you don't. I don't Jake is saying that a woman should be subservient. I think he truly tried his very best. He is letting her go, though he wishes he did not have to. I think the circumstances were very difficult at best with the business failing and the unsupportive mother-in-law. Nor do I doubt that his wife was acting out herself. But, I still don't think that, as well-meaning as Jake is, that he understands that which he does not understand: the control stuff. I think this is made even harder by virtue of the cultural differences.

Controlling people often have a hard time understanding how difficult their anger or control issues are for their partner. They know they don't mean to hurt or offend. They know if they slip up in anger, that they just slipped and didn't really mean some of what was said. They mean it when they apologize. They know they have very good reasons for feeling the way they feel. They know that if only the partner would listen to their reasons, they would understand.

The part that slips by is that even though their partner understands, it is a struggle for this person to feel free in having their own point of view. If they have a point of view that is different from the controlling person's view, the controller assumes they have it because they need more facts to truly understand. This is the partner's catch 22.

The controlling person's point of view seems so right to them, their partner becomes weary of understanding and of not being understood. This is the MeMeMe stuff.

Date: Monday, May 15, 2000

S1

The reason your wife may be bringing up 1000 things is because she feels attacked, and is trying to point out an abusive pattern. She is trying to explain her side, defending herself from your verbal attacks. You have already admitted that you have a bad temper. It is impossible to talk with someone who goes into a rage, or if you don't know WHEN they will explode.

You asked if everyone thought you used swear words with your wife. I don't think you swore at her. It is possible to attack someone personally without swearing. Your comment references something in your original email to Dr Irene. YOU: But one night, I exploded and told her that was wrong. She said that I was calling her a bitch, and maybe I implied it, but did not say it directly. Dr Irene: Same difference. Not OK. (In other words, it's still abuse.)

Date: Monday, May 15, 2000

S1

Yes, I think she brings 1,000 things to our discussion because she wants to be right, but so do I. However I only want to deal with one issue at a time, and with her it is impossible. Another thing, she also bring 1,00 things because she feels attacked. Yes, I know, but not because I started saying things that make her feel attacked, but because she has to defend herself. I understand that since I have also tried to defend myself in the past. The problem here is that I have told her she doe not have to defend herself since I am not the enemy nor I am attacking her. But at the end, yes, she brings 1,000 issues to our discussion table. Jake, nobody ever said she wasn't making her own mistakes. We've just been looking at your errors since you wrote in asking for feedback. I would be equally tough on her, as I am with the victims on the site I chew out for misbehaving... Also, for all I know, she may be another controller! But, again, you, not she, is doing the asking, so this is about you.

But like I said, It makes no difference now. Like a post I get here, she is under the influence of her mother which gives her strength to pursue for a divorce, and that was my concern here in the first place, people telling other people what to do, and that it is best for them to divorce.

What is the end result? I would be a better person, since by definition, only God is perfect, which means that there is always room for improvement on myself, and I recognize it no matter how many years a live. My wife, well maybe she will improve herself or not, but one thing is for sure, no one, but no one will love her like I do. I have given her my whole life, whether it was for good or bad, and she was the most important person in my life. Even if my love was not good for her, I was willing to make the necessary changes to love her good. My kids will live in a broken family. I will remarry when I am ready, since I found happiness and will like to again. Does this make sense? Not for me, but obviously for my mother in law it does. I just wish I would stop loving her, since I would hate to think about her every day of my life, as I do know. I am letting her go, she is gone, but I still love her.

It makes no sense. Unless you understand some of the complaints your wife and mother-in-law may have. They are not here to contribute, but what have you got to lose by taking the time to consider accepting some of the feedback you've gotten here - as opposed to telling us why we don't understand...

Date: Monday, May 15, 2000

S1

Dear Jake: You're welcome. I just wanted to add that you should not give up on your wife if you sincerely want to make a change. You have children together and the family should be together if it can. It has only been 3 months and never say never. I left my husband for 1 year at one point and when I returned, it began to go bad because the issues were never resolved and we both went back to our own separate ways. I have to say that I loved my husband, yet I hated him. I never thought that I could love him that way again.

But when he realized that his treatment of me was not right and we could be on the same side, things did change. My changes in demanding respect and to be treated correctly and his changes in respecting me and treating me correctly made it work. I began to trust and love him again the way a wife should love a husband. I in turn respected him.

So if you sincerely want your wife and family back then you have to say "Hey, I have to change the things that upset her...period". Amen. She will also change when you change because deep down inside, couples really do want to be happy. Please just think about it. You worry about the mother in law. Don't. My family was so used to my husband "screwing up," that even after he changed, any mistake he made he was already labeled "bad" so they said, "See he will never change".

But the funny part is, is that I began to stick up for him, something I thought I would never do. I would tell them that he is only human and can make a mistake, as we all do. Give him credit for changing 95%. If you love her, work on yourself and let her see your sincerity. For the sake of the children she may give the marriage another chance. Just be sincere and think of her feelings to. I will say a prayer for you and your family. Karen Yes Jake. Try to understand her.

Date: Monday, May 15, 2000

S1

Karen:

You made me cry since you give me hope, but I do not think my marriage will work. This is not the first time we were separated, since 3 years ago we did. I was pretty bad at that time and I made improvements on myself. I stopped worrying about my wife's mistakes, I did work on myself, but like I said, only God is perfect, so I will always have room for improvement. So does she. Stop looking at her - stick with Jake, only Jake! But I will always be accused for my past mistakes.

Do you know something? I did everything I could to get my wife back, flowers, gifts, telling her how I feel toward her, etc. Nothing worked. Do you know what did work? I told my mother in law how sorry I felt for my mistakes, which was not meant. I apologized, I took all the blame, and at that time I was sincere. I saw my mistakes pretty clear, however I did not realize the huge mistake I made when I talked to my mother in law.

First, my wife came back home immediately, I was in shock to see that. I could not believe how strong my mother in law influences my wife. I even recanted that, since I was not expecting her to come back that soon since the decision was hers, not her mother's. But then I realized that the decision was my mother in law, and my wife just took it, both to leave me and to come back. Wow! When you were willing to own everything, including stuff that you believed did not belong to you, she returned!

Second, she did little changes since I took all the blame, which was ok for me since I thought that by improving myself I would make a difference. But no, it did not since my mistakes showed them I was a horrible person. Could it be your "mistakes" included not understanding her, and wanting her to understand you? Whenever I made another mistake, it just reminded them how horrible I was. I am always judged by my mother in law, I do not even think I have a private life. I feel like am constantly pointed by my mother in law's fingers.

Again, my wife's is a very insecure person who needs to validate her decisions with her mother. I feel sorry for her since what is she going to do when her mother is gone? Her mother has not prepared her for that time; it is like she will always be there for her, and that can not be. Eventually she will be called by God, and then I hope she is ready to face the world as a grown person, who can stand by herself. I get the feeling you look towards God to vindicate your position...

I also hope that my wife does not do the same thing to my kids, as she is doing it right now, not letting them grow. I am a very independent person who somehow became dependent to my wife as well, and I am working on that, I realize now the huge mistake that is, and hope my wife sees that she is dependent to her own mother, and that is stopping her from growing. I hope she sees that too...

Date: Monday, May 15, 2000

S1

Thank you for posting this email! I have been trying to explain to my husband why I am not happy and also what control "is". Although I know I am far from perfect, when I read this letter, I saw my husband. I came to the site wondering if I am making the control abuse thing up in my head. I was starting to think I was going nuts!!!! I emailed my husband the email, and I hope it will make him understand a little more how I feel. He almost had me convinced that I was the whole problem with our marriage (I am not saying I am without fault...it is just nice to not have the whole thing on my shoulders). :)

Date: Monday, May 15, 2000

S1

After the first separation you improved, but you were still abusive. That's why your wife left. This is a typical pattern of abuse that Dr. Irene has explained. Wife leaves, husband buys gifts/flowers, says he will change. I believe you were sincere at the time. Your mother-in-law must have believed that too. So, she has been on your side before! What type of counseling did you get after your first separation? You have said you didn't explode with anger as much, but you were still exploding. Even though you changed, you were still hard to live with. What kind of counseling did you receive? Did you go to a therapist, or did you try to change on your own? You need a therapist who is an expert in verbal abuse. You can't make this change on your own. It's very hard to do. Keep trying new ways to improve yourself. Get help. It sounds like you still have a long way to go. Look at YOUR problems inside of YOU, instead of worrying about who is "controlling" your wife. Those are her problems. Deal with only your self improvement.

Date: Monday, May 15, 2000

S1

Your mother in law did what she felt was best. Why not show how grateful you are by sending her a nice box of chocolates? Assorted flavors are suitable, like raspberry, strawberry, cherry, hazelnut, praline, strychnine, orange cream, caramel, etc. A good idea. You catch more flies with honey...

Date: Tuesday, May 16, 2000

S1

Wow, that was a lot of letters in one day!!! Jake, I have read them all and please, take it from "A REFORMING VERBAL ABUSER," all this makes sense. I have been there and done that, as the saying goes. There are so many excellent advice tips in these posts. Especially about the one that said "What counseling did you get, and "sorry" won't cut it, and "you can't fix it on your own, you need professional help"

Listen Jake, I was saying the same thing 5 years ago. That I would not make the same mistakes again. Well guess what my hurting friend. I did! Why??? Because I never followed through with professional therapy and I gradually slid back into my old, bad habits. And you will too if you don't get professional help from a therapist who is familiar with verbal abuse/controlling/manipulation behavior etc. Listen to the person who told you it might not be too late. But what is everyone saying Jake? What are they all saying? All these people that have been in and out and through these situations? What are they saying???????????????????????????????? For the most part THEY ARE SAYING........ "THE ONLY PERSON YOU CAN CHANGE IS YOURSELF, NOT ANYONE ELSE"

All you can do for her is pray for her, if she is a Christian then let The Holy Spirit work on her heart. He can do a much better job than you or her mother. Go to Therapy, Let go and let God, Get help, admit your wrong. It's ok to be wrong, what's not ok is to be wrong and still remain blind to it because you are concentrating on changing someone else. My wife and I are on the verge of a divorce. This is my "LAST CHANCE", I am certain of that! So what am I doing, I am getting professional counseling. (I should have long ago!)

I am reading books like "The Verbally Abusive Relationship " by Patricia Evans, and "The Feeling Good Handbook" by David D. Burns etc. etc. What you don't see it that most the people responding to you with their postings have insight, they have hands-on experience, they have heard all this before, and although the specific details may differ, the underlying problems just ooze out between the lines of your words. I'm sure if you would get professional counseling, you will discover that you were doing things unconsciously that you did not ever realize you were doing because they have become natural and automatic for you. When you are counseled and you have read and you have meditated on your past and asked God to show you your hidden motives in your past, you will be enlightened and see things from a different light. Please trust me on this. Just do it. What have you got to lose? Jake, I love you as a brother in Christ and I hope God will lead you to the answers, but you must let him. Let down your guard. Get Help, you will be glad you did. Tim Wonderfully said Tim.

Date: Tuesday, May 16, 2000

S1

Hello, is me again. Dr Irene asked: "Do you think your wife may have changed her tune over time had you been more accepting of her close relationship with her mom? Had you not set yourself up in a role competing with her mother?"

It is probably true that my wife may have changed her tune over time had I been more accepting of her close relationship with her mom, and I may had myself up in a role competing with her mother, but over time what I did was to get a close relationship with my mother-in-law. I think I got close to her because I not only accepted my mother-in-law in our life as much as my wife wanted, but I also suggested her doing things with her, like going to movies with her, going to her house every Sunday, etc. My mother-in-law was involved in as much detail as possible in our lives. I supported that. My mother-in-law has said quite often that I was a perfect man, and my only problem was that I smoke cigarettes. She even said that.

But now, she treats me like I am the worst man in the world. I have heard comments from some friends of hers about how she hates my guts and how much she wants me out of my wife's life and even of my children's. It is white or black for her now, there is no gray here. How can she change her attitude toward me overnight? You can only change her attitude over time.

But all of this is not important now. I am not here to keep analyzing my mother-in-law's attitude. But I bring it up to show how influenced my wife is by other people, so much so, she can not see the light at the end of the tunnel. For other couples, spouses can have the choice to continue their journey, but for me it is most difficult considering that I have not been the horrible person they think I am. I thought I was; their behaviour even convinced me of that, and I felt pretty bad. That is why I came across this site, and other sites, to see how right they are.

I have suggested my wife so many times for us to go counseling, so many times. And we did 3 years ago, but we stopped going by her wish. Never, ever again she wanted to go again with me. I stopped too. I wonder if your counselor, not fluent with abuse issues, turned your wife off by further upsetting the balance of power? I will continue on my journey, reading books and probably going counseling myself, since I want to be involved again and have another family, and I do not wish to make the same mistakes again. :) But my point here is why am I such a terrible person if I wanted to go to counseling with my wife but she never wanted? You're not! And I am talking that I wanted to go counseling even before our first separation 3 years ago, when I saw clear signs of problems. Is it possible she never actually loved me? Is it be possible that she never actually wanted to work this relationship? Perhaps. But, perhaps there was too much water under the bridge for her too. Perhaps she felt nothing would help?

I have seen so many cases where one of the spouses does not want to go counseling since they know how much responsibility they have, and they do not want to open it It was not my attitude. I always wanted to have it in the open: what my responsibility was and what hers was too. Whatever the problems were, I was willing to work on them. So my question is why that was never ever possible? My wife never thought or appreciated my attitude about this. If I am such a terrible person, why was I willing to have it in the open, and why she was afraid to have it in the open too? Possibly because a counselor who does not understand abuse can make the victim feel even worse...

Now I do not agree with the theory accept it or leave, because at the very least, it sounds like it encourages people to leave. Hurt people may have a hard time accepting things, so the easier step is leaving. I speak for myself: if I wanted to leave my wife, I would come here and get the strength I need.

I am letting her go and letting God. I went through all phases already, denial, frustration, resisting and now I am working on accepting. Almost from day one in our separation, she spoke about divorce. For God's sake, this is not a game; this is affecting lives: hers, mine, and our children's. How can anyone be so blind? I am not having a difficult time in accepting my responsibilities. I am having a difficult time accepting that divorce is a necessary step since I am not a horrible person as they believe. In their eyes I am a horrible person who do not deserve time to change. But what about my wife and my children? Don't they deserve better chances? Don't my children deserve to have better parents, where both of us show that it is possible to forgive and to improve ourselves? What kind of message our we sending to our children? Here is where we are influencing society: by showing there is no hope, no matter what we do. That is how my mother-in-law is influencing my wife, which is affecting how this generation and the next believes. Yes, Jake. Everybody deserves a chance. Your children deserve an intact home. You can improve; we all can. Nobody disagrees with you - except your wife and her mother.

Date: Tuesday, May 16, 2000

S1

Jake, please read the reply from Tim again. He is further along in his recovery than you. You still sound very defensive. Yes. You are giving us these long explanations to try to convince us that your behavior isn't as bad as it is. No one is saying you are a terrible person. We are saying you are a person who needs help. Your abusive behaviors, and THEY ARE ABUSIVE, are symptoms of a deeper problem. You don't sound like you are aware of how serious and abusive your behaviors are. You seem to think that by defending yourself with explanations, we will finally see the truth about you. What you don't see is that we do see the truth, you don't.

Why aren't you asking questions of yourself like, "How do I feel when I don't get what I want?" "What makes me explode?" "Was I blamed for things as a child?" "Did my parents or another adult make feel stupid?" "Did adults in my childhood ignore me?" What are your beliefs? Do you believe that life MUST be fair? What does fair mean to you? Why aren't you asking for help on what questions you need to ask yourself, instead of giving long explanations? (I'll bet Tim has some good suggestions.) Why aren't you asking female victims of abuse what the verbal abuse made them feel like, instead of accusing us of hating all men, or encouraging divorce? Ask how male victims of abuse feel, too. Excellent!

People like you often want counseling for their spouse because they think the counseling will fix what is wrong with their spouse. Correct. Yes, your wife needs help; only she can fix herself. YOU fix yourself. You need therapy for yourself and your problems. Don't worry about what someone else needs because you have no control over that.

We all know that you are going through a difficult time. Try to accept the sincere help offered by Dr Irene and others. You don't have to defend yourself here. This is a good place to do some soul-searching. You will find support here when you look at issues that scare you.

Date: Tuesday, May 16, 2000

S1

I have been married for three years now and I am going through the same thing, only I am the one going out. I am having the same problem with my husband. I am not happy and that is why I am going out so often. Everything you said is EXACTLY what my husband says to me. It is so close that I cried and got chill bumps when reading your story. He told me that I will ALWAYS hear it from him when I do go out. No matter if it is 2 times a month or every week.

We sat down and discussed a compromise. Well I was the one who did all the compromising. I said I would only go out 2 times a month and he said he would TRY to not bitch at me so much when I do. That is not a compromise. It is not going to work either, because I have not really spoken to him since then and I want to go out this weekend all ready. You don't bring it up because you know it is unlikely to go anywhere... I am not picking up men when I go out with my girlfriends. We just dance and have a good time together. My husband says that I should be staying home with him and working on our relationship. He has always been like this even when we were dating. He did not like it when I would spend time with my friends. I just never saw it and realized what was going on.

He belittles my friends tries to tell me that they are bad people , people with no goals in life and so on and so on. I can not even get him to spend time with my family; and when he does spend time with my family, he takes naps while he is there. I cannot believe that somebody else is having the extract same problem that I am having. I do not want a controlled life. I am not the type of person to be controlled. I was 20 when we got married and things were great. I did everything that he wanted to do, and now that I am growing up and doing things that make me happy, he can not take that I am becoming an independent person.

He told me that he wants to be the HNIC ( head nigger in charge, sorry for the slang ) again. So he sees that I will not put up with it anymore, and that I am going to do what I want. He can not handle it so we fight. He has told me that he does not want to be married to me any more and that he wants to see a lawyer to file for a legal separation. At first I said that I did not want that, but the more I think about it, the more I realize that is what I want.

He never wants to do anything and I want to be with somebody who wants to do things and go out and have fun. My husband has a lot of good qualities and that makes it very hard to make my decision. I know that I am not in love with him anymore. I do still love him, but not the same way he loves me. I feel that I am cheating him out of a good relationship. There is somebody out there who will love him just as much as he will love them, and I feel that by me staying with him and feeling the way that I do, is not right. He could be so happy with somebody else , somebody who will want to stay home with him and not go out. I just feel like I am cheating him out of that feeling. Jake I know this is more than you want to know but from another wife who is going through the same thing your wife is going through I thought maybe this will help you understand little bit more. Katharina Katharina, You once loved your husband too. H