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#1 JenM.

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Posted 30 November 2004 - 05:39 PM

Another eye-opening encounter with my H today. Geez, you know, just starting out like that-I hear this voice in my head telling me, "You know, nobody really wants to hear about this...shut up..." and for that reason, I know I must continue typing...

We were talking about a minor skirmish we'd had earlier this morning and I made a statement that he told me to repeat to myself slowly and purposefully. He stopped me mid-arguement to have me slow down and repeat- while listening to myself carefully- what I was saying to him (in defense of my actions...)

The topic came up when he asked me, "Who are you? What are you about? Do you even know the answer to that question?"

"I am an intelligent, strong, determined woman." I stated.

That answer went right over his head (I still haven't figured that one out...) and what it boiled down to was this:

I made the statement that I have spent the last year and a half that we have been reconciled doing my very best to see to it that he is happy and satisfied and that he is getting what he needs out of this relationship, even if that meant letting the things I need and the things I want fall to the side.

That's when he stopped me.

"Repeat that." He says.

"What?" I am trying to argue you know, that I'm a good spouse and that I have been self-sacrificing and doting and all that crap, and he just stops me!!!

"Repeat what you just said and notice what you're telling me and what you're telling yourself. Listen to yourself."

He says this calmly, in a very logical, purposeful way. He wasn't being mean.

So, I slowly repeat, "For the past year and a half, since we decided to reconcile
I
have gone out of MY way to see to it that you are happy and satisfied and getting what you need out of it, even to the detriment of MY wants and MY needs."

He looks at me and says, "THAT is why I tell you you are a selfish person. YOU are the one who got it into your head that I require you to make me happy and satisfied. I never told you I needed you to be that or do that for me, you have taken it on yourself to be that for me and you are angry at me because I will not do the same for you."

And you could've knocked me over with a feather.

I was speechless, and that's pretty rare for me. :D

I said, "So, I have assumed that in order for this thing to work I have to do certain things and behave a certain way and make the road smooth as silk for you and you're telling me you don't need all of that?"

"Right." he says, "You have put so much pressure on yourself to be something you just cannot be and someone I have never required you to be that it's gonna ruin us if you don't stop."

I asked him, "But how does that make me selfish?"

"You've put all on you." He says, "And you make me out to be the villain because I don't make myself miserable for you."

Please understand, y'all, the whole time I'm sitting there trying to take all of this in and even now, 4 hours later, I'm like, "Whoa!"

"I've been so angry at you because I felt like I was going out of my way for you and you have rarely, if ever, gone out of your way for me." I said this in a slow, realiztion kind of way...it's just now dawning on me what's been going on between us...

"What kind of person do you think I am, that I would require you to be in a relationship with me that is based on your being miserable?" He says, "I've been a d***head," he said, "but I've never asked you to or expected you to make yourself miserable. That's just twisted. And if you expect me to make myself miserable trying to make you happy that isn't going to happen. I think we're miserable enough, and THAT has to change!"

You know, I think my little world is slowly unravelling, and by that I mean, I have been this way for as long as I can remember.

I have always heard my Mom's voice in the back of my head telling me not to be selfish. I have tried to be as much as the opposite of selfish as I knew how, but in every relationship I have been in (and I told my H this, too) this is how I have operated. I have always taken it on myself to be the glue that holds everything
together, so to speak.

I'm the strong one, even though I have times when I am weak. I always want to be the 'go-to-person', even at work! Even if that means I'm doing something I totally hate or I am feeling resentment and rage building in me as I'm doing it.

Does misery really make me tick?!?

And how do I NOT do this? I told H today, "I don't know if I can NOT be like that!" The mere thought of it brings tears to my eyes and puts a huge knot in my throat!

How do I not automatically take it on to hold everything and everyone together?

I've got to be getting something out of it or I wouldn't keep doing it, right?

Is there a name for this? Or am I just freaking out about nothing.

It doesn't feel like nothing.

It feels like a fork in the road. :huh:

#2 GuestCat_gomanngo_*

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Posted 30 November 2004 - 06:57 PM

Jenn,

I really don't have the time right now to post a response, but want to say Hi at the very least. You sound very frustrated and just wanted you to know that your sistahs are praying for you. Lets chat/post some tomorrow. k?

Blessings, Gail

#3 Chelli

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Posted 30 November 2004 - 09:20 PM

Big, big word: C o - d e p e n d e n c e.

Now. Let's re-examine this statement:

He looks at me and says, "THAT is why I tell you you are a selfish person. YOU are the one who got it into your head that I require you to make me happy and satisfied. I never told you I needed you to be that or do that for me, you have taken it on yourself to be that for me and you are angry at me because I will not do the same for you."


It takes two to Tango here. Somehow, he has allowed you to believe that you are lacking somewhere or you wouldn't be killing yourself to "make him happy." He's also telling you how you feel here and why.

"I've been so angry at you because I felt like I was going out of my way for you and you have rarely, if ever, gone out of your way for me." 


Are you sure this is the reason you're angry? Or is there some more going on here? Perhaps your also angry because he's been unreasonable in the past?

There is some miscommunication here. It's NOT all you. Or you wouldn't be out here twisting in the wind for thee years. Spend some time in the co-dependent part of the web site.

Then ask yourself some questions. Where does he end and I begin? DO I have boundaries? Does he? DO we violate each other's boundaries? What does he do when I assert mine? What do I do when he asserts his? Am I trying to control his behavior? Is he trying to control mine?

Tough questions. Post away some thoughts and see what else you discover.

Chelli

#4 LilyBlossom

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Posted 30 November 2004 - 10:56 PM

Wow, Gen, this is truly a fork in the road for you two! I see some real hope for a mutual understanding about this with more discussion, perhaps with or even without guided counseling.

I hardly know how to put it but ... no, I can't find the words. Sorry.

A thought does come to mind, though. A healthy marriage is between two people who both have a healthy esteem of one's own self; two healthy halves that can become one healthy unit.

Another thought: An unhealthy self-esteem is not right or wrong, but has one major cure for everyone: A true love of self, just the way one is.

As Christians we know that this healthy self-love comes from God Himself. He already did all the "sacrificing" for us. We don't have to do it!

Wow again, Gen! I think the Spirit is leading both of you!!

And, thank you for writing out this conversation!! The Lord spoke to me through it, too!

#5 app2

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Posted 30 November 2004 - 11:19 PM

"What kind of person do you think I am, that I would require you to be in a relationship with me that is based on your being miserable?" He says, "I've been a d***head," he said, "but I've never asked you to or expected you to make yourself miserable. That's just twisted. And if you expect me to make myself miserable trying to make you happy that isn't going to happen. I think we're miserable enough, and THAT has to change!"


Why doesn't he say this slowly and really listen....because THAT doesn't even make sense!

You didn't do things to be miserable - you did things to hopefully get things to work between the two of you. He should have been doing the same thing. If doing extra duty in order to reconcile and make things work isn't part of the game plan - what the heck is he there for????

He is going to be miserable if he places extra effort into things to make things work? I thought that was part of "getting it together". You work to make it work. You place credit where there were debits. Hopefully something will click.

Maybe I missed something here - but you are trying to reconcile right? You placed extra effort into the relationship because you really wanted this. Because of the feedback you got from this extra effort - you became miserable. Possibly because of his non-effort! You are the selfish one? HUH?

LOL I don't think you ever asked him to make himself miserable to make you happy! LOL! He has a point - that wouldn't work either. You never asked him to do that - but you did ask him to work with you! You did want some shed of something to keep things going. When you didn't feel that you became miserable. At times you place yourself aside in certain circumstances to make sure your partner feels the love and concern and is happy. I'm not talking 24/7 - but even in healthy relationships people will do that from time to time. The concept that it can be returned is not unheard of here!

What is he saying - you shouldn't have to place extra effort into the relationship to make it work because it might make things miserable? LOL! okay then. So things so go about the same way before you separated and maybe it will work this time?? HUH?

So, I slowly repeat, "For the past year and a half, since we decided to reconcile I have gone out of MY way to see to it that you are happy and satisfied and getting what you need out of it, even to the detriment of MY wants and MY needs."

He looks at me and says, "THAT is why I tell you you are a selfish person. YOU are the one who got it into your head that I require you to make me happy and satisfied. I never told you I needed you to be that or do that for me, you have taken it on yourself to be that for me and you are angry at me because I will not do the same for you."


You didn't think he required it. You wanted to do that to make things work. You felt maybe he might think the same way and work with you. Most people that REALLY want a reconcile will go out of their way to do something. LOL that isn't selfish - its normal!

Again - maybe I'm missing something here. But what I'm hearing is Why should I place extra effort in just because you did! You are pretty ugly demanding me to do that!

#6 JenM.

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Posted 30 November 2004 - 11:27 PM

<_<
Okay, Girlies. Here we go.

Yes, I am angry at the fact that I feel I give and give and give and give and don't get back what I give. The same amount, the same intensity.

I said earlier in another post that we have a problem competing with each other, a big part of our relationship has become oneupmanship and I DO NOT like that.

He has been unreasonable in the past, yes. I left him because of that. Get a job.
It was that simple.

But, at the same time, I wouldn't get a job because I was afraid I would lose my baby-a miscarriage. I was put on bedrest 3 times in my first trimester with my son...who doctors told me I would never be able to have...(but God!) and I made getting our boy into this world healthy and strong BOTH physically and emotionally my sole goal. I focused most if not all of my energy on that.

I felt the least he could do was get us out of the dung pile we were in and get a job, heck, get 2 jobs if it meant taking care of us.

I would do that for us. Hey, I'm doing it now. We wanted our own house-a family that was homeless 3 years ago, now living in our own home, our dream home, no less.

I guess the thing that got me about this conversation we had was that I realized I haven't just done this with him. This has been going on since I was probably 6,7,8 years old. I know about roles in dysfunctional families.

I practically raised my kid brother...and he will tell you that today. My parents were capable wonderful people who married way too young and never really sowed any oats. I always felt like they would keep me around if I kept doing something and doing really, really well.

That's laughable to me right now, because, good grief where did I think they were going to send me? They loved me, dearly, but I have this thing in me that makes me want to just MAKE EVERYTHING RIGHT!!!!

AAAARGGGH! :angry:

My first H used to tell me, "Hon, I know you want to help, but you're not a help."

I have made this situation even worse by holding my H up to a standard that even I cannot reach!

"I did this so, um, in all fairness you need to do so and so and then we'll be even for the day. But don't worry, the scorekeeping will all start all over again tomorrow."

That is how I've been doing him-whether spoken or unspoken and I have been absolutely raging inside because he wouldn't play the game.

HAHAHAHA! This is sick and funny all at the same time.

I am the authority he is bucking. (He isn't really good with authority and I THRIVE on it...) Come to me, I'm the authority on...heck, name a subject.

I realized, last night on my own that with both of my H's I have felt like I am better than them. I am a city girl. They are/were both country boys-my first H was even a bluegrass performer! How much more hillbilly can you get?

Then, I marry a man who will tell you his father's side of the family are the epitome of Redneck-ness. They are from the most isolated county in the state and live with mountains on 3 sides of their town!

He is from literally, the end of the world...

And I married him to get him out of what he was in. I did. I wanted him to have the kind of life I had, and to experience what I had experienced and to see there is more to life than this podunk town, these backward people and their narrow-minded prejudices.

He was the most sophisticated one out of the slew of BillyBob's I dated and/or bedded ( I was a hellion when he met me, fresh off the wave of power from my first divorce...) and I thought I can take him places. He is smart, savvy and man is he tough.

Realizing that last night-realizing I really did think I was a better person than he is crushed me!

I have never considered myself a snob. I was always trying to be one of the "IT" girls when I was a kid. And now, I have become my worst nightmare.

I am a snob.

And I may have married the man I married to undergird my very damaged self-esteem.

Okay. That's everything.

The past 36 hours have absolutely drained me and I await the words of wisdom from you, my wonderful sister-friends.

I asked God to forgive me for that-for being such a bigot. And, I asked my husband to forgive me, too.

Talk about knocking someone over with a feather. He's 6'6/325# and I think I could have done it.

Lilybud-the Holy Spirit is fixing some huge tears in my spirit.

Ladies, please pray that the Spirit of God will be gentle with me over the next few days...I will need your prayers and support. I'm learning a lot I always knew, but never had the courage to admit.

Thank you all so much for listening to me. Much love to you! -_-

#7 LilyBlossom

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Posted 01 December 2004 - 01:18 AM

Dear JenM, (Sorry I called you Gen before!)

I am going to bed very happy knowing that the Spirit is restoring you to His original plan for you!! His "surgery" is sometimes very painful but always healing! I know because He has put me through it, too!

I feel such deep love for you!! Stay strong!

Isaiah 41:10 comes to mind for both of us -- and fellow Catboxers, too!




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