[Hope]

My friend took these notes for me from a talk by a clinical psychologist who specializes in treating adult incest survivors and persons with chemical addiction. Lapin discussed so much, as the material was relevant for adults who were childhood victims of abuse, who then go on to be involved in abusive relationships, both intimate but also those who were in unethical relationships with therapists, clergy, etc. He talked a bit about therapeutic trends from Freudian to non-degreed spiritual healers. The lecture was out in San Francisco, an area teeming with predatorial people putting themselves out as pastoral counselors (my friend's) and naturopathic physician treating mind-body-spirit (mine). We both have crossed paths in the commercial new age scene, in abusive relationships, and difficulty with articulating what the hell happened. She sent me these notes as I was reading another incredible article from a website called The Gift From Within, that talked about the abuse introject, so I'm a bit overwhelmed. http://giftfromwithi...hldhood.html#ff

In the late 1980s, Dr Daniel Lapin became interested in vampire legends after one of his clients urged him to read Bram Stoker's Dracula. She told Lapin that the story haunted her and that it seemed to be about her life and moods in a way she just could not grasp.

Lapin read the book--and as a clinician he was riveted. He kept getting depth charges in his guts that Bram Stoker was describing, in coded language, scenarios of childhood abuse. And not only that, he was describing the moods and dissociative mental states of those traumatized and those perpetrating trauma. Lapin broadened his research and found vampire stories in just about every world culture except the Eskimos and that perhaps may be because no one has yet accessed all the narratives of the various polar tribes.

So to Lapin, this indicated that unconsciously people have been struggling with the reality of trauma and psychic energy theft from those too vulnerable to set boundaries and defend themselves--and that these stories are also about betrayal by those supposed to protect the vulnerable.

What Lapin discovered in Brams Stoker's tale and in his client's stories were the following themes that
you and I have encountered about eighty million times both in our lives and in the New Age Scene:

The perpetrator of the psychic energy theft goes into a dissociative state when thieving. He or she does not consciously experience him or herself as harming anyone. That is why they are so incredulous and wierd when we try to pin their sorry asses down. The perps will NEVER admit what they do--because they're zoned out when doing it. (the way abuse victims dissociate and "put up" with abuse, these guys dole is, likely victims of abuse themselves).

**But...even if the perp is zoned out, he or she is still an agent perpetrating theft of vitality. They are responsible-- they just refuse to see that responsiblity.

Perps induce dissociative mental states in their prey. People will report that they knew something was wrong, but were unable to act on that knowledge to mobilize the necessary confidence and leave. Lapin said part of this is biological--we fear death and humiliation and when we sense our core is being threatened we shut down, just as animals do when they go into freeze mode.

**This assault on one's core is so ghastly and it hits at the sector of the victim that is early child, where such stuff is more than one can handle. People defend against full realization of the extent to which they have been attacked and penetrated. THey will defend themselves against this awareness by going dissociative.

This may be why wonderous trancy mind states and movies such as the secret and what the bleep are so popular among this already vulnerable population. These films induce dissociation and magical thinking and regression into states of awareness where people can deny there is any such thing as abuse, can deny that there's any such thing as betrayal or vulnerability. Buddhism can be readily exploited for both shaming and dissociative purposes.

No wonder S (my doc) liked LEC--it induced dissociation and softened his prey up for him. He also used Watts and Thich Nhat Hanh as ingredients in his dissociative poison brew.

So many who have been violated cant stand to face how they were betrayed, how they entered into thralldom and how a part of themselves was roused to ecstacy by someothing that damaged them. So they will invoke dissociative rationalization to deny that anything bad was done to them. If they can find ways to insist there is no real distinction between good and bad--whoopee. (this might be why so many people find themselves so judgemental of true victims and state there are no victims - because they would have to face their own victimization). The perp then induces a state of thralldom in the victim (the bait, love-bombing, hoovering). This compels the victim to return again and again, to the situation where he or she is being abused--or return to a sitaution where the abuse is likely to be re-enacted.

The perp actually injects an aspect of his or her predatory self into the victim. In clinical terms this is 'internalizing the predatory introject'. You lose your autonomy in relation to the perp. You feel both dirtied and collusive at the same time. This is why so very many people are loyal to the persons who have ripped them off and defend their right to keep right on preying on others, on grounds that these people are special and helpful. (my note, I've seen this a gazillion times with destructive groups, therapy cults, LGATS). Generally speaking, people are loyal to these types, and tend to blame themselves for getting involved with yet another vampire instead of facing the humiliation that happened as children, which then was re-enacted as adults.

The victim doesnt feel able to escape. Kids feel this way when scared of Mom and Dad. Often one has
fantasies that guests might rescue you from the bad situation.

A big difference is whether we identify with this predator introject or do not identify with it.

If people identify with the predator introject, they join the chorus who deny what;s happening or actually defend the right of these perps to do as they please and find ways to blame victims and shame them into silence. The New Age scene is full of this.

If people do not identify with the predator introject but remain affected by it, they will be like the two of us-- they will fight the injustices, but at the same time suffer from a leak of vitality--one may be vulnrerable to depression, feel afraid to make mistakes, afraid of power and responsiblity.

Lapin said its classic for adult survivors of psychic abuse to feel afraid to say no and set boundaries.

He then said the other classic them in Bram Stoker's story is **the villagers around Dracula's castle do not want to know what is going on."

Sound familiar? Its just like our families. (my friend discussed the profound lies that she was told by her parents, something we both experienced, the alcoholism, emotional abuse) We were both hurt terribly by people we went to for answers (she went to a minister, me to a doctor), neither revealed their true agenda and both falsified credentials and were heavily into a shallow new age scene) . And... its just like the New Age village.

THEY DONT WANT TO KNOW WHAT IS GOING ON. That is why they dont want to fact check and prefer
anything that supports trance and dissociation.

The discernment is to figure out whether one is in a social scene or seeker's scene that focuses on dissociation and on worshipping and giving power away to special people. That's the part of the New Age scene that attracts the vampires--and those most vulnerable. People who already want to dissociate because of what they've been through in childhood are at high risk of gravitating toward social scenes that foster dissociation--LGATs, trance, The Secret, What the Bleep--and the venue that got off on Carlos Castaneda. The Castaneda crowd were and are dissociative as hell. When Amy Wallace revealed what went on in Castaneda's vampire castle--its astounding how many of the 'villagers' just didnt wanna know. They'd felt inspired by Castaneda and just didnt want to face that someone who had made them feel so wonderful was a psychic vampire and a sexual sadist/predator. (so many people didn't believe us as kids, didn't want to hear anything negative, and the very idea of codependence came up as a result of the big cover-up of alcoholism and other bad behavior on the part of one of our parents).

Lapin said that it is very rare for someone to come up with a fictional narrative in which the children who are
victims of predation get together and successfully kill the predator. But..Bram Stoker did it.

Lapin said that what is vital, absolutely vital to the healing process is--LISTENING TO AND BELIEVING
THE VICTIMS. This of course is what is hardest to find--look at all the blame the victim ideology out there. Its sophisticated and permeates the scene. Time and again, Lapin says if you hear enough from survivors they keep telling how they fear they are crazy, that they were not sure they were asleep or awake, they fear they will not be believed, and worst of all, because they felt pleasure or got some temporary benefit they feel obligated to defend the predator, or have no right to protest.

Finally, Lapin notes that a big problem with psychic vampirism is that the resources of the criminal justice system do not take it into account. Abusers are clever at exploiting loopholes in the system. One has to find ways to get justice outside the system or by identifying the few ways predators do get caught.

Ditto with LGATs. They f*ck with brain chemistry. Anyone who sells powder in the subway that has the effect that LEC does is committing a federal offense and can be jailed. But someone who can screw with people's minds using LGAT techniques is not breaking any law.

Its noteworthy that the one hope we have of going after LGATs is to invoke labor law--to see if the persons working for them are being fairly paid for their work. But.. there's no way to punish LGATs for the damage they do to people's minds and relationships--Anglo American common law is not designed to compute it.

But Lapin's remark about psychic vampirism, the frequency of dissociative trance in both potential recruits and fed-upon victims, and his comment 'the villagers just dont want to know'...it all resembled what you and I have seen.

Lapin commented that the only immortality these predators can hope for is to inject a part of their ego
driven personality into us--which means our autonomy as free beings is violated. Lapin said, the movies and many vampire novels romanticise this as eternal life. But it is not. It is more like perpetual undeadness--not the same as living.

(friend's note) I have had a strange feeling that I dare not reject what I have internalized of my parents because if I reject it, I will have to say goodbye to them forever, and the little kid part of me fears that loneliness.

But this internalized material from my parents shames me, drains my energy and has triggered me to behave in ways that are mean. It will require a deep leap of faith to root this out for a vitalized life that is as yet unimaginable and unfamiliar. The stuff I have internalized drains my vitality--but it gives a sense of home--even though its illusion.

This is classic --for both survivors of psychic predation--and in the vampire narratives.

I am betting that legions of the people have internalized such stuff from their perps and have not yet found people capable of hearing them. The thing I dislike about the covertly abusive New Ages scene is it claims to heal and claims to hear us--but it covertly empowers predation by shaming abused people into silence, giving an accountability free space for predators to work in--and encourages, sometimes even demands that people trance out or dissociate in order to be or remain members of the tribe,.

This isnt healing. This is the collusive village that denies what is going on in Dracula's castle.

[welfaremomma]

There's a lot to think about in what you have posted here.
Besides wearing a bulb of garlic or a Crucifix around one's neck, there are certain "laws" of vampires that could also
be used in the anology.
Vampires ALWAYS get permission from the victim.
As someone who has been touched by the legend since suffering a concussion as a child while attending a performance
of the stage-version, I found that that law of vampires is the most empowering.
If there is any more work done exploring the idea posted above, I wonder if Anne Rice's work will be examined as well?

[Hope]

IMO, “permission” is not the most useful word because it implies the victim should know better. For those who have been abused as children, there is a loss of self. There has been little in therapy that address spirit, and in the website Gift From Within, the narcissistic injury causes developmental deficits, a much better label than codependence.

More of my friend’s notes and comments…..Lapin talked about a state of mind that the vampire literature terms thralldom. In thralldom or dissociation or trance, we know things are wrong, but are not empowered by what we know. We have adult awareness but regress to the powerless paralysis of little kids. So our awareness that something is wrong doesn’t give us the indignation the energy to kick a**, raise hell, get out.

If we internalize ego driven material from the predator, we have a bit of the predators life in us and defend what he or she does---even if we no longer live under the direct authority of the predator.

This to me explains some of the stuff you and I have seen again and again--people who are no longer in EST or Landmark, or who have left an abusive guru, or do not understand the mind-f*ck of these groups or of abusive relationships, nevertheless defend the entitlement of these evil entities to do as they please, yet can give no satisfactory reason for why they've left. So some of what we are seeing could be thralldom.

My friend sent me a ton of notes. I'll need to edit out a lot of personal stuff, but they are fascinating. I never read Ann Rice. Isn't she a fiction writer? Does she comment on the psycho-emotional relationships of her characters?

This is from The Gift from Within
Caught up in the throes of the trauma, the victimized child is also robbed of his or her individuality and sense of self-of free will, of spontaneous aliveness, and autonomous behavior. Many of these children suffer severe deficits in the development of awareness of self and body image, and show a mental fixity on sexual themes and distortions of the body.22

This form of anxiety also involves the subjective experience of non-being, of "being erased," and is characterized by "a chronic suspenseful, 'up-in-the-air' feeling . [with] despair-inducing diffuseness."23 Due to the dreadfulness of continuing abuse, the child is rapt, seized, and stress-worn by tormenting emotions that ultimately lead to suffering
"prison-like confinement"24 as a way of life. The child's very existence is unendingly threatened to decompensate into stillness. It is the child's own resilient strengths-from pre-trauma, constitutional, and post-trauma islands of health-that are deployed to maintain the organization of experience even in these dire circumstances. Without such inexplicable adaptive clout on the part of abused children, they may go downwards into a sense of abysmal nothingness,25 the demise of consciousness.

The traumatized child, additionally, is exposed, in this the bizarre relational dynamics to secrecy, threats of exposure (to vilification, humiliation, and moral condemnation), threats of abandonment, fear of repeated sex-based and physical injuries, and further degradation. These children are constantly wary when adults come near, and when they are away from home may fear returning home (and may become runaways). Abused children rarely undo this state on their own, play along to look good, yet the core of their being is still suffering, thus the dissociation from the self (spirit, soul) and the inability to avoid the same vampiric relationship later on (note from Lapin’s lecture fits right into Gift from Within)

[Hope]

My friend bought his book Back to Lapin..in reading him I discovered that people who have been vamped as children may internalize predatory material from their perp. As Lapin put it, in a healthy relationship between a child and parent, the child can slowly and selectively integrate features from Mommy and Daddy, to enrich his or her actualself. But when assaulted by a vampire and in dissociative shock against the horror of it all, this brutal tearin both boundary and conscious awareness causes the victimized child to rapidly internalize a large chunk of the perps ego-driven predatory self. Once internalised, this may drive the wounded person to re-enact the trauma. One of the dreadful things that can happen is that the victim may go into trances, may feel compelled to move toward persons or situations that are high risk. The victim may send out non verbal signals that alert predatory persons in the vicinity and--attract them. Because predators dont go after people who are likely to see them clearly and fight back. They gravitate toward those of us already limping.

Lapin makes it clear that this is unconscious...the victim is not consenting becuase not fully aware, and is most certainly NOT asking for it.

Its no accident that the metaphor for vampire therapy is to use a stake. Vampires hate consciousness and clarity. They want to keep things foggy.

[posso]

The abstract of an article by Dr. Stanley Rosenman on the linked page seems to refer to a similar phenomenon. I haven't managed to access the article, it seems to be printed in journals requiring subscription, but the "destructive mode of projective identification" is intriguing.

http://www.pep-web.o...d=jaa.031.0521a

[Hope]

posso, on Apr 2 2007, 02:37 PM, said:

The abstract of an article by Dr. Stanley Rosenman on the linked page seems to refer to a similar phenomenon. I haven't managed to access the article, it seems to be printed in journals requiring subscription, but the "destructive mode of projective identification" is intriguing.

http://www.pep-web.o...d=jaa.031.0521a

That looks very interesting. I'll see if I can get the entire article off of MedScape or PubMed.

Thanks!

[Hope]

This is some info on introjection from Heartcenteredtherapies.org

All the defenses, and combinations of defense, that we have been
exploring are reactions to the pain of a traumatic experience. The more
intrusive the assault, the more likely that the child identified with the abuse
and/or with the abuser. The part of oneself represented by this
identification (introjection) is, of course, repulsive. With the advent of
repulsion there begins a longing to transcend the sense of self. This longing
provides the impetus for healing the wound, returning to a state of
wholeness, and it is the beginning of building a framework for spiritual
fulfillment. First one recognizes the self-limitation of abandoning parts of
oneself and hiding them away from the light of day. One longs to transcend
this limited and tangled sense of self, to pull together the disparate parts.
Then the parallel spiritual process becomes more and more obvious: one
longs to let go of the superfluous parts, to loosen attachment to the false
identifications, and to surrender to a transcendent self. How vibrant is the
paradox of the subtle shift that separates abandoning oneself vs. letting go
of oneself. Death and rebirth is only painful when we identify with what is dying.

***************************

A split in the psyche-soma occurs when the child is unable to have a
healthy, safe, and contained experience of disintegration and
depersonalization, a sense of existing, a sense of self. That can happen, for
example, when the caregiver(s) communicate deep shame about the child,
when he/she feels guilty, frightened, impatient, or desperate. Examples
would be the child who is being incested, or the child who has some
physical defect unacceptable to the mother, or the child who is the product
of a rape who constantly reminds the mother of her humiliation. The child
then naturally introjects his caregiver’s intense negativity and accepts it as
the truth about him. He rejects identifying with his body, and with his “real
self” (personalization), and instead identifies with a fabricated “false self”
(depersonalization). The psyche has failed to indwell in the body, or has
been rejected and exiled.

“The first ego organization comes from the experiencing of threats of
annihilation which do not lead to annihilation and from which, repeatedly,
there is recovery. Out of such experiences, confidence in recovery begins
to be something which leads to an ego and to an ego capacity for coping
with frustration” (Clancier & Kalmanovitch, 1987, p. 51).

When those threats of annihilation do lead to annihilation, the child is
confronted with “primitive agonies” (Clancier & Kalmanovitch, 1987, p.
52) and the defenses are disintegration, failure of indwelling, and
depersonalization: a psyche-soma split. The split stands in defiance of a
sense of continuity of being, a sense of existing, a sense of self.
Paradoxical defenses “occur when continuity of being is faulty. They
then present themselves as a solution of continuity and are aimed at
preserving the true self from annihilation or from the primitive agonies that
threaten it” (Roussillon, 1978, quoted in Clancier & Kalmanovitch, 1987,
p. 93). They are the paradox of guilt, the paradox of the fear of breakdown,
and paradoxical suicide. Guilt is hiding that of which I am ashamed in
order to preserve it. The fear of breakdown (annihilation) is a memory of
what has not yet happened. Paradoxical suicide is a suicide perpetrated in
order to avoid being killed, in order to remain in the world of the living:
“you can’t kill what’s already dead.”

“The original experience of primitive agony cannot get into the past
tense unless the ego can first gather it into its own present time and
experience omnipotent control now” (Clancier & Kalmanovitch, 1987, p.
53

[Hope]

My friend went to a medical library and was able to get a copy of the Stanley Rosenman article linked by posso. She emailed me the following......

"The article was grim reading, but very, very informative. The Rosenman article is an updated version of the material presented by Lapin.

Rosenman made use of testimony from people who had survived parenting from adults traumatized by war and persecution, and from persons who had survived prison atrocity, torture and other forms of prolonged, grievous assault. (This is not good stuff to read within an hour or two of bedtime--learned that the hard way.) (My note - any trauma the parent suffered would count).

The stuff that jumped out at me is that many times perpetrators present a very pathetic wounded child aspect of themselves while simultaneously intruding on and damaging vulnerable targets. ((Though Rosenman does not say so, this wounded pathetic child aspect of the perp is probably flip side of the vibrant charming child aspect of the perp when he or she is being sunny and seductive.))

The pathos literally disarms us--both before we are assaulted--and it disarms us after we are assaulted, by shaming us into distrusting our anger and revulsion at being trust busted.

This matches with how many abusive gurus (like my doctor, warped's doctor\bf, all our abusers) go into pathetic grand opera mode when feeling misunderstood--the pathos. It brings their defenders out of the woodwork (their relatives, friends, followers). Even those grievously victimized by Cohen still feel afraid to be disloyal and this has greatly muzzled the survivor's community and prevented it from becoming an effective agent for reform. Despite knowing how cruel and dangerous Cohen (one particular "guru" we've been following in CA) had been to them and that he was continuing to do this, most of the survivors pull their punches and feel afraid to be disloyal or hurtful-even a woman who was pressured and tormented to surrender over 2 million dollars still felt this hesitation. IT all fits with what Roseman describes--the seductive pathos of the tormentor.

In using pathos,the perp sets it up so the victim gets shamed and conned into feeling parental and loyal to the wounded child in the perp--and in feeling protective of the wounded child in the perp, the victim is simultaneously conned into disowning his or her own violated innocence. In this scam, its the powerholder/perp who gets the compassion and the victim ends up shafted with disorientation, shame and self loathing.

Two, Rosenman notes that perps feel soiled by what they've been through and some get a temporary sense of renewal and invigoration by disrupting the innocent happiness of their target and witnessing the person succumb to the shock that the perp went through. Rosenman noted that survivors of atrocity may resent and envy their children at having a chance at happiness and may force the children to become privy to the parent's grim outlook on life--a kind of misery loves company dynamic. (my note - they HATE our happiness. My doctor, and the LGAT he tried to suck me into, try to persuade clients that they don't know just how miserable their lives are. Many alternative practitioners use this underlying unhappiness as the "hidden cause" for illness).

So the identity and emotional life of the perp get transferred into the targeted victim and takes over the victims inner life. IF you're a child, you dont feel free to explore life on your own terms. You feel your own energy and happiness are taking something away from your parents. Roseman noted that some perps get a sense of immortality, or at least a sense of mastery (the vampire) by taking over the inner lives of their victims and (to quote the abstract) 'have (the perp's) representation emerge as an internal regulator of the traumatized prey's functioning. '

Now...doesnt this sound exactly like an LGAT's agenda--'emerge as an internal regulator of the traumatized prey's functioning.' The set up is a socially engineered assault/disorientation that punctures boundaries and fosters injection of the LGATs' "representation" so that it then takes over and runs the targets inner life for them--and sets up a conflict between true self and the foreign and predatory material injected by the LGAT. (my note - we both have had experience with either gurus or LGATs, but this injection applies to abusers in general - they become part of your internal workings).

But Rosenman's article describes another part of the process--the way perpetrators use thier pathos, their woundedness, to feel entitled to leech from others---and use their pathos to charm their victims into parenting them--and shame thier victims to ignore their own valid revulsion at being leeched from. When someone is pathetic, its hard to face that they are dangerous and using pathos as a cloaking device.

(My note - my doctor gave me a sob story that was truly pathetic. My friend had similar experences. In general, many of the programs offering transformation involve a leader who went through hell and back, but their programs don't provide any learning, just conformity. )

The tip off when perpetrators abuse this is that only the perpetrator's misery gets respect. The perpetrators agency in continuing the legacy of abuse--is ignored.

***We are made to feel ashamed of holding a pathetic person accountable for the present harm they are doing.

The predation happening in the present moment is denied. The experience of the victim suffering in the present moment is given no respect whatsoever."

[Lullaby]

Hope, on Aug 7 2007, 08:26 AM, said:

The tip off when perpetrators abuse this is that only the perpetrator's misery gets respect. The perpetrators agency in continuing the legacy of abuse--is ignored.

***We are made to feel ashamed of holding a pathetic person accountable for the present harm they are doing.

The predation happening in the present moment is denied. The experience victim suffering in the present moment is given no respect whatsoever.

THANK YOU, HOPE! Your post here is brilliant and shocking and so true. If I'd only known that tip off, I might have saved myself, though I wonder if I'd have rationalized that my H's misery DESERVED more respect because it was somehow more "real" and certainly far more "pitiful."

It puts the difficulty of getting free from someone like this in stark relief. Our very compassion is our downfall, because we don't want to hurt this wounded person. Again, if only I could have known that when I finally did leave, he would become far LESS wounded, almost as if he'd been freed from pretending to be something he's not. I'm a low self esteem wreck and he's moved on to an entirely new crowd of people--all who probably see him as a victim of ME.

[Hope]

Lullaby, on Aug 7 2007, 06:45 PM, said:

I'm a low self esteem wreck and he's moved on to an entirely new crowd of people--all who probably see him as a victim of ME.

I'm years out and away from my perp, a doctor, and I did experience very briefly hearing comments about my sanity from people who knew him. BIG HOWEVER COMING NOW - His defenders and supporters got royally skarooed by him as well. Adding insult to injury seems to be textbook, when you finally begin to see the ruse and find you have no support, but just know it is short-lived. How could it not be? We are not stupid and they con us. This is what they do, with everyone, and the ones who don't get the wool pulled over their eyes are just like them.